QB factory... what if.....

[Cheesteakitis]

We all ****ed and moaned when they selected hurts in the second round and said over and over again how they just think they are a Qb factory.

My question is now that wentz has sucked this year and they have made the switch to Hurts what would the eagles be doing if they didn’t select him? Would the media and fan pressure been as high to get sudfield in? Would Wentz be as bad without a high draft pick behind him?  Would Mccown have been kept around and be starting now and lead us to a division crown like Foles? 
 

my main point is how most bashed the pick and then turned around to be among the first to say turn the ball over to Hurts. 

[EaglesfanfromND]

If's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. Would we have had all the injuries and piss poor play by everyone else too? Who knows how anything else would have played out. I'm guessing Wentz would have been benched anyway with how he has played. Unfortunately you can't bench the whole team.

[QBhunter58]

dealing in hypoheticals never gets you anywhere except frustrated and/or confused

[DeathByEagle]

There are so many "What if's" to choose from. Its endless and a waste of time. 

[PoconoDon]

You are what your record says you are. The Eagles record says they all suck!

[Uscg-green]

7 hours ago, Cheesteakitis said:

We all ****ed and moaned when they selected hurts in the second round and said over and over again how they just think they are a Qb factory.

My question is now that wentz has sucked this year and they have made the switch to Hurts what would the eagles be doing if they didn’t select him? Would the media and fan pressure been as high to get sudfield in? Would Wentz be as bad without a high draft pick behind him?  Would Mccown have been kept around and be starting now and lead us to a division crown like Foles? 
 

my main point is how most bashed the pick and then turned around to be among the first to say turn the ball over to Hurts. 

Even the people that wants Hurts to play acknowledge it was a stupid wasted pick. But they realize what's done is done and go eh might as well play him. See what we have. That about sum it up @EazyEaglez?

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

Even the people that wants Hurts to play acknowledge it was a stupid wasted pick. But they realize what's done is done and go eh might as well play him. That about sums it up @EazyEaglez?

I think it was a bad pick too, but that doesn’t mean that the Eagles were wrong for benching Carson or that I’m going to rip the kid for something that isn’t his fault. Like I mentioned before the Eagles could have had Jefferson and Chinn with both picks and they’re arguably the two rookies of the year. You have to admit for whatever the reason Carson’s struggling and there’s no point to keep putting him out there. The coach is trying to find anything to spark this franchise and save his job with the limited options he has. When I saw Carson staring at the line last week instead of looking downfield I knew it was over for him. He’s a broken quarterback right now. That doesn’t mean that all this is on him, but something has to change. Sadly the Eagles created this mess the moment they drafted Hurts. It all goes back to Howie.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

The fact that Hurts played well yesterday and may well play well the rest of the way does not make this a good pick. It's only a good pick if Hurts goes on to be a top QB in the NFL! And even then I'm not sure how good we can judge the pick because the process behind it is completely flawed. They paid Wentz, they gave him this huge deal and then they drafted a QB in the 2nd round of the draft. Instead of giving the offense a weapon or the defense a much needed weapon (like Chinn) they drafted a back up QB. The whole thought process was bad because there was no way Howie (or anyone for that matter) could have foreseen that Wentz was going to be that bad.

[brkmsn]

5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The fact that Hurts played well yesterday and may well play well the rest of the way does not make this a good pick. It's only a good pick if Hurts goes on to be a top QB in the NFL! And even then I'm not sure how good we can judge the pick because the process behind it is completely flawed. They paid Wentz, they gave him this huge deal and then they drafted a QB in the 2nd round of the draft. Instead of giving the offense a weapon or the defense a much needed weapon (like Chinn) they drafted a back up QB. The whole thought process was bad because there was no way Howie (or anyone for that matter) could have foreseen that Wentz was going to be that bad.

You have to be careful about rationalizing something just to keep a narrative going. Either it was a good pick or it wasn't. Like most picks, it's stupid to make a conclusion this early. Hurts was picked within his draft projection parameters. If he develops his potential, it's a good pick regardless of ""why" he was picked or who wasn't picked. Being a good pick does not make the pick a popular pick. That is what is getting mixed up in the argument. 

[time2rock]

19 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I think it was a bad pick too, but that doesn’t mean that the Eagles were wrong for benching Carson or that I’m going to rip the kid for something that isn’t his fault. Like I mentioned before the Eagles could have had Jefferson and Chinn with both picks and they’re arguably the two rookies of the year. You have to admit for whatever the reason Carson’s struggling and there’s no point to keep putting him out there. The coach is trying to find anything to spark this franchise and save his job with the limited options he has. When I saw Carson staring at the line last week instead of looking downfield I knew it was over for him. He’s a broken quarterback right now. That doesn’t mean that all this is on him, but something has to change. Sadly the Eagles created this mess the moment they drafted Hurts. It all goes back to Howie.

I really liked Jefferson - he was my pick once Lamb and Ruggs were off the board.  But do have to wonder what his numbers would look like had we drafted him.  I have a feeling his productivity wouldn't be anywhere near where it is now with Wentz (trying to) throw him the ball and with Doug's play calling.  Ditto Chinn in Schwartz's scheme.  

[time2rock]

8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The fact that Hurts played well yesterday and may well play well the rest of the way does not make this a good pick. It's only a good pick if Hurts goes on to be a top QB in the NFL! And even then I'm not sure how good we can judge the pick because the process behind it is completely flawed. They paid Wentz, they gave him this huge deal and then they drafted a QB in the 2nd round of the draft. Instead of giving the offense a weapon or the defense a much needed weapon (like Chinn) they drafted a back up QB. The whole thought process was bad because there was no way Howie (or anyone for that matter) could have foreseen that Wentz was going to be that bad.

I think you need to separate the two.  One topic to argue about is whether or not a QB should have been taken so early this year.  The other is whether or not he can become a good QB (regardless of the circumstances).  

If Hurts continues to play well the remainder of the season, ironically that move (while many thought of just plain dumb at the time) could be what saves Howie's arse (if it has been on the hot seat).  

What a crazy year!  

[QBhunter58]

20 hours ago, Toty said:

But what if we didn't deal in hypotheticals at all?

touché 😄 

[EazyEaglez]

25 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I really liked Jefferson - he was my pick once Lamb and Ruggs were off the board.  But do have to wonder what his numbers would look like had we drafted him.  I have a feeling his productivity wouldn't be anywhere near where it is now with Wentz (trying to) throw him the ball and with Doug's play calling.  Ditto Chinn in Schwartz's scheme.  

It’s a valid point. Seems like all pro players kind of die in Schwartz’s scheme, and Wentz has never been a true friend to a wide receiver. 

[Godfather]

One stah

[UK_EaglesFan89]

8 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You have to be careful about rationalizing something just to keep a narrative going. Either it was a good pick or it wasn't. Like most picks, it's stupid to make a conclusion this early. Hurts was picked within his draft projection parameters. If he develops his potential, it's a good pick regardless of ""why" he was picked or who wasn't picked. Being a good pick does not make the pick a popular pick. That is what is getting mixed up in the argument. 

That's a good and fair point. I still think overall its a bad pick. We had so many other needs and to be honest I don't think he's going to be the long term guy here. I don't think Wentz is either which makes the pick even worse given we will likely spend another high pick on a QB in the next few years. 

[Kz!]

The "QB factory" comment was idiotic no matter how the Hurts pick plays out. If you want to draft a QB in the latter rounds of the draft and develop him in an attempt to flip him for a higher pick in the future, that's one thing, but if you are talking about using premium picks in the 1st-3rd rounds to develop QBs that will ultimately wind up on other teams, that's incredibly stupid.

Now, I do think Roseman probably made the infamous "QB factory" quote to take some of the sting out of the pick for Wentz rather than stating it as if it was a legitimate team-building strategy. I think the pick was insurance in case Wentz's injury history or subpar play persisted. 

[jblah]

QB factory doesn't start with a 2nd round pick. QB factory starts with a late round pick that you can get a 4th round for in a couple of years and then get him back after he is released and get another 4th round pick. AJ Feely anyone??

[Penn7980]

On 12/14/2020 at 4:47 PM, Kz! said:

The "QB factory" comment was idiotic no matter how the Hurts pick plays out. If you want to draft a QB in the latter rounds of the draft and develop him in an attempt to flip him for a higher pick in the future, that's one thing, but if you are talking about using premium picks in the 1st-3rd rounds to develop QBs that will ultimately wind up on other teams, that's incredibly stupid.

Now, I do think Roseman probably made the infamous "QB factory" quote to take some of the sting out of the pick for Wentz rather than stating it as if it was a legitimate team-building strategy. I think the pick was insurance in case Wentz's injury history or subpar play persisted. 

That term is bad, just like the one by Vince Young "dream team".  That did not turn out well and this one would likely be messy as well.

Howie coined the term to smooth things over.  The key element is whose idea to draft a QB that high.  Howie, Doug, or Jeff?  They could have concerns about Wentz staying healthy all season and needed to have someone to take over when that happened.  They could have gone with a vet or low pick.  That would not subject Wentz to look behind him for what is going on.  Wentz's contract makes it very hard to trade or cut him.  A messy situation is created by the FO, and they better find a way to clean that up and fast. 

[XoqTionR]

I didn't think it was a bad pick cause I wasn't high on Wentz after last year and repeated injuries. Thought it was good insurance that ended up panning out.

[NJWolverEagle11]

On 12/13/2020 at 8:42 AM, Cheesteakitis said:

my main point is how most bashed the pick and then turned around to be among the first to say turn the ball over to Hurts. 

Well he's turned the ball over to everyone else...

[birdman#12]

On 12/13/2020 at 8:42 AM, Cheesteakitis said:

We all ****ed and moaned when they selected hurts in the second round and said over and over again how they just think they are a Qb factory.

My question is now that wentz has sucked this year and they have made the switch to Hurts what would the eagles be doing if they didn’t select him? Would the media and fan pressure been as high to get sudfield in? Would Wentz be as bad without a high draft pick behind him?  Would Mccown have been kept around and be starting now and lead us to a division crown like Foles? 
 

my main point is how most bashed the pick and then turned around to be among the first to say turn the ball over to Hurts. 

The first thing you have to realize is that philly fans and media ALWAYS love the back up QB more, regardless of who it is.  

Jalen Hurts was a baffling pick for the eagles who had needs in other areas.  But sometimes the certain talents are sitting there in the draft that are too attractive to pass up.

As far as Wentz goes, in my opinion, something is going on with him that they either haven't discovered yet or thought he could play through.....I think he still is struggling cognitively from that playoff concussion.  You don't go from how he ended the season last year, to being one of the worst QBs in the league without something seriously wrong with him.

Hurts may end up being the full time starter and has all the tools to succeed........that pick may end up being one of the best ever in philly, ironically.  But we have to see alot more of Hurts in all kinds of situations......but it seems he'll be fun to watch.

[eglz1]

16 hours ago, Penn7980 said:

That term is bad, just like the one by Vince Young "dream team".  That did not turn out well and this one would likely be messy as well.

Howie coined the term to smooth things over.  The key element is whose idea to draft a QB that high.  Howie, Doug, or Jeff?  They could have concerns about Wentz staying healthy all season and needed to have someone to take over when that happened.  They could have gone with a vet or low pick.  That would not subject Wentz to look behind him for what is going on.  Wentz's contract makes it very hard to trade or cut him.  A messy situation is created by the FO, and they better find a way to clean that up and fast. 

Given Wentz' history of missing games at the end of the season/playoffs I think they wanted somebody more capable than a low pick or mediocre free agent backup. I don't know if they saw something in Wentz post concussion last year that caused them concern or not.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 hours ago, eglz1 said:

Given Wentz' history of missing games at the end of the season/playoffs I think they wanted somebody more capable than a low pick or mediocre free agent backup. I don't know if they saw something in Wentz post concussion last year that caused them concern or not.

They were giving themselves a cheap back up with upside. They acknowledged that Wentz has finished the last 3 years injured and they saw how McCown struggled in the play off game. They also knew they couldn't afford a good back up. But there was no way they saw it playing out this way.

[Devaster]

On 12/17/2020 at 1:41 PM, Penn7980 said:

That term is bad, just like the one by Vince Young "dream team".  That did not turn out well and this one would likely be messy as well.

Howie coined the term to smooth things over.  The key element is whose idea to draft a QB that high.  Howie, Doug, or Jeff?  They could have concerns about Wentz staying healthy all season and needed to have someone to take over when that happened.  They could have gone with a vet or low pick.  That would not subject Wentz to look behind him for what is going on.  Wentz's contract makes it very hard to trade or cut him.  A messy situation is created by the FO, and they better find a way to clean that up and fast. 

Wasn't Doug's pick. He has said as much in his displeasure in comments to the media. Doug isn't happy with the front office and ownership.