15 minutes ago, ilikepargo said:

Taking a QB in the 2nd to be a Backup/Gadget Player is asinine.  Hurts may be the nicest guy ever, and, as has been said, taking him later would have been fine.  But this was an inexcusable waste of a valuable asset.  We could have had Mims there.  Or Epenesa.  Or Wilson.

Fundamental Football is better than Gadget Football.

Completely agree. Again it's not a real reflection of the player, it's a reflection of the approach, the strategy and the wider issue and question this raises. 

10 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Completely agree. Again it's not a real reflection of the player, it's a reflection of the approach, the strategy and the wider issue and question this raises. 

The only way I would understand you guys was if you were talking about the player. If this was a bad QB we could talk about wasted assets.

If you are set at the most valuable position, with all the advantages it brings (safety net, contract, double qb plays) and all you have to give up for it is a late second - that is next level stuff. Seriously this could net him another Manager of the year.

I know all of you up in arms about it WILL get to see it. There are just so many reasons for everyone open to even think about this.

And all I hear from those unhappy is: The value isn't right. We needed Mims (who ended up the 13th WR taken.. must be a coming superstar for sure)

3 minutes ago, Infam said:

The only way I would understand you guys was if you were talking about the player. If this was a bad QB we could talk about wasted assets.

I'm sorry but I fundamentally disagree. A second round pick is a premium pick. You expect to get a year one contributor if not a year one starter. There were better players on the board at #53 that they passed on for Hurts.

So apparently back up QB is more important than starting corner? Or safety? And that's a long term need in addition to being something we needed now too.

Hurts was the wrong pick at the wrong position and I'm absolutely not going to change my mind on that. Unless Wentz now retires and then we have greater issues as a franchise. 

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'm sorry but I fundamentally disagree. A second round pick is a premium pick. You expect to get a year one contributor if not a year one starter. There were better players on the board at #53 that they passed on for Hurts.

So apparently back up QB is more important than starting corner? Or safety? And that's a long term need in addition to being something we needed now too.

Hurts was the wrong pick at the wrong position and I'm absolutely not going to change my mind on that. Unless Wentz now retires and then we have greater issues as a franchise. 

Well, thank god it is not you making these decisions then. It was a great pick, and I am very happy they had the guts to make it.

2 minutes ago, Infam said:

Well, thank god it is not you making these decisions then. It was a great pick, and I am very happy they had the guts to make it.

It's a bad pick. Most recognize that. If you want to like this pick then good on you I guess. 

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

It's a bad pick. Most recognize that. If you want to like this pick then good on you I guess. 

People are just angry because they got surprised and their knee jerk reaction was anger.

If you look back to just last season, you see that we can replace everyone. But when Wentz misses time, it's over.

Here comes Hurts, the cheap talented backup - seen on trick plays over the season. Ready to save the season until Wentz is cleared again.

But hey - we could take another player. Because apparently that's more important than top tier talent at QB. 😂

3 minutes ago, Infam said:

But hey - we could take another player. Because apparently that's more important than top tier talent at QB. 😂

So once again Howie with his 1 Lombardi is smarter than everyone else?

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So once again Howie with his 1 Lombardi is smarter than everyone else?

Absolutely. Every team without two really good QBs is doing it wrong. Even more true with 17 game seasons.

Just now, Infam said:

Absolutely. Every team without two really good QBs is doing it wrong. Even more true with 17 game seasons.

Ok if you say so... 

What a load of nonsense.

38 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Ok if you say so... 

What a load of nonsense.

It’s actually not nonsense. By the time we get back around to playing football, the season will be lengthened, and we already have a QB who has a tough time making it through a 16 game season...which puts a premium on the back-up QB position. Besides, a little actual competition for your job usually brings out the best in people.

I maybe disagree with where Hurts was picked, we may have gotten him in a later round (maybe, who knows what the chatter was) but to say it was an unnecessary pick is disingenuous. 
 

And, having a coach from the Andy Reid tree should have foreshadowed the draft for you. Choosing backup QB’s and trading them after a couple years  and somehow getting value for them in the form of later draft picks, where we load up on lineman and high motor guys, was a method that was successful.

25 minutes ago, hey suess said:

It’s actually not nonsense. By the time we get back around to playing football, the season will be lengthened, and we already have a QB who has a tough time making it through a 16 game season...which puts a premium on the back-up QB position. Besides, a little actual competition for your job usually brings out the best in people.

I maybe disagree with where Hurts was picked, we may have gotten him in a later round (maybe, who knows what the chatter was) but to say it was an unnecessary pick is disingenuous. 
 

And, having a coach from the Andy Reid tree should have foreshadowed the draft for you. Choosing backup QB’s and trading them after a couple years  and somehow getting value for them in the form of later draft picks, where we load up on lineman and high motor guys, was a method that was successful.

That’s the crux of the disagreement right there.  In the 4th round, sure. Maybe even at pick 103, but 53 should have been used on an asset with the potential to stick around a very long time. 
 

This would be justified only if they know something about Wentz’s planning to call his future short that we are unaware of.  

8 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

That’s the crux of the disagreement right there.  In the 4th round, sure. Maybe even at pick 103, but 53 should have been used on an asset with the potential to stick around a very long time. 
 

This would be justified only if they know something about Wentz’s planning to call his future short that we are unaware of.  

To be fair, we have no idea if he’d be there. Wasn’t Hurts the last QB taken? If so, who knows if he would have been around in the 4th. It’s fun to speculate and debate between us fans, but in reality we have no clue what’s going on behind the scenes.

11 minutes ago, hey suess said:

To be fair, we have no idea if he’d be there. Wasn’t Hurts the last QB taken? If so, who knows if he would have been around in the 4th. It’s fun to speculate and debate between us fans, but in reality we have no clue what’s going on behind the scenes.

I’m not necessarily talking about Hurts specifically. I’m just talking about taking a QB in general in round 2. Round 2 should be used for players who have a great chance to start, or become significant contributors. This guy will be a gadget player at best for us, and we don’t even know if he’s ok with that. 
 

If this were a stacked roster, one or two pieces away, then I could see making the gamble. I think we have too many needs elsewhere to take a chance on a luxury like this. 

13 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I’m not necessarily talking about Hurts specifically. I’m just talking about taking a QB in general in round 2. Round 2 should be used for players who have a great chance to start, or become significant contributors. This guy will be a gadget player at best for us, and we don’t even know if he’s ok with that. 
 

If this were a stacked roster, one or two pieces away, then I could see making the gamble. I think we have too many needs elsewhere to take a chance on a luxury like this. 

But that is the point. This was not just to get any QB. If so, they could've gone later for sure. This was specifically for this QB, his skillset, his upside and his character.

If you really feel like he will be really good, and open up things for your team, and will be a good backup - you don't wait hoping your guy will fall even further.

2 hours ago, hey suess said:

It’s actually not nonsense. By the time we get back around to playing football, the season will be lengthened, and we already have a QB who has a tough time making it through a 16 game season...which puts a premium on the back-up QB position. Besides, a little actual competition for your job usually brings out the best in people.

I maybe disagree with where Hurts was picked, we may have gotten him in a later round (maybe, who knows what the chatter was) but to say it was an unnecessary pick is disingenuous. 
 

And, having a coach from the Andy Reid tree should have foreshadowed the draft for you. Choosing backup QB’s and trading them after a couple years  and somehow getting value for them in the form of later draft picks, where we load up on lineman and high motor guys, was a method that was successful.

I’m hoping that I’m misreading this. There is no competition for Carson’s job at all.  

55 minutes ago, Infam said:

But that is the point. This was not just to get any QB. If so, they could've gone later for sure. This was specifically for this QB, his skillset, his upside and his character.

If you really feel like he will be really good, and open up things for your team, and will be a good backup - you don't wait hoping your guy will fall even further.

Then you’re using a 2nd rounder on a gadget player. The reality is unless there are unknown plans to move on from Wentz in the very near future, we used a 2nd round pick on a gadget player. 

3 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I’m hoping that I’m misreading this. There is no competition for Carson’s job at all.  

Do you think Carson played better when Foles was here, or McCown?

1 minute ago, hey suess said:

Do you think Carson played better when Foles was here, or McCown?

Both

In 2017 before the injury Wentz was the league MVP.

2018 he was never fully healthy and came back way too early.

2019 Wentz played very well despite having no WRs all season. Over 4000 yards and no WR had 500 or more. Thats pretty impressive if you ask me. 

IDK me personally,I would have taken MIMS at 53.Now you have 2 future WR's that can also put some work in immediately.I know we liked James Morgan at QB.We could have gotten him later.Jets made a great pick there.I hope we don't resort to trickery.I would opt for a soild team who doesn't need to rely on gadget plays.At 53,I would expect that player to have a game long team impact.You aren't getting that with Hurts.The only other possible is he will be trade bait(remember what the Pats did with Garapolo?) or if a team loses their starter early in the season.We trade with Jax some,so he could also be a lever for the YAK trade.I'm sure Jax would like to have a nice BU to groom behind Minshew.We shall see( YAK is what I call Ngakowe lol)

Just now, DeathByEagle said:

Both

In 2017 before the injury Wentz was the league MVP.

2018 he was never fully healthy and came back way too early.

2019 Wentz played very well despite having no WRs all season. Over 4000 yards and no WR had 500 or more. Thats pretty impressive if you ask me. 

Wasn’t questioning his stats (although in 18 he only played 11 games so it be hard to say how he would have compared to 2019 when he played 16)......but I’m talking about how he played....we’ve all watched his career, he’s played better when he had a little pressure.

Like the devil says, pressure changes everything. Some people, you squeeze them, they focus. Others, they fold.

3 hours ago, ilikepargo said:

Taking a QB in the 2nd to be a Backup/Gadget Player is asinine.  Hurts may be the nicest guy ever, and, as has been said, taking him later would have been fine.  But this was an inexcusable waste of a valuable asset.  We could have had Mims there.  Or Epenesa.  Or Wilson.

Fundamental Football is better than Gadget Football.

I wanted them to take Gay there.  1st round talent with off the field issues that have been cleared up.

I personally dont mind Hurts. Was he picked one round too early? perhaps. But I think every player he took was drafted a round too  early with the exception of Wallace. Hurts I think a lot of facts play into this pick. We need a long term cheap backup QB since it is the most expensive position in the league. Even backups. Yea you have the so called Gimmick options but I think thats just a bonus to it. The big reason is flat out insurance. I love Wentz, I know he can be healthy but there is always the what if and the QB position is the most impactful of the what if's. 

Do I think we could have used the pick better and made went for Eason or Fromm later? Of course Might even had had Hurts in the 3rd in a trade up. But not pissed about it. To be honest other then Wallace its one of the safest picks Howie did this draft. 

Overall, I can see what Howie is doing. He is trying to make a drastic change in this team to just pure speed. No other team is doing this yet, no not even the chiefs. They have one blazer on the team. Howie is going for flat out track team. He is taking a major gamble on this draft from all the picks he made. He put his head out there going with all speed over overall football talent. This will go down as either the greatest draft or the worst draft in team history and his job is on the line for it. 

I really hope it works out. 

7 minutes ago, hey suess said:

Wasn’t questioning his stats (although in 18 he only played 11 games so it be hard to say how he would have compared to 2019 when he played 16)......but I’m talking about how he played....we’ve all watched his career, he’s played better when he had a little pressure.

Like the devil says, pressure changes everything. Some people, you squeeze them, they focus. Others, they fold.

I dont think he had the pressure of Foles at all in 2017. I think he had better coaching, game planning, play design and scheme. Also had a healthy recing core and a beast run game. The team diff between 2017 and 2019 was night and day. But he pretty much carried that 2019 team on his back with not much to work with. His only downfall in 2019 was fumbles. 

3 hours ago, Infam said:

People are just angry because they got surprised and their knee jerk reaction was anger.

If you look back to just last season, you see that we can replace everyone. But when Wentz misses time, it's over.

Here comes Hurts, the cheap talented backup - seen on trick plays over the season. Ready to save the season until Wentz is cleared again.

But hey - we could take another player. Because apparently that's more important than top tier talent at QB. 😂

Why did it have to be Hurts? Unless you are planning for Wentz to go down week 1,it was absurd.A guy like Morgan who we liked was available later and a month or 2 to learn our offense wouldnt be that big a deal.We have hung onto Suds this long for a reason.Maybe he is not a #2,but he can still play if called upon.I'm with UK on this one.BU QB WAS needed.Where they decided to do it was not to our advantage

2 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

I dont think he had the pressure of Foles at all in 2017. I think he had better coaching, game planning, play design and scheme. Also had a healthy recing core and a beast run game. The team diff between 2017 and 2019 was night and day. But he pretty much carried that 2019 team on his back with not much to work with. His only downfall in 2019 was fumbles. 

I just get the feeling that 2018 Wentz doesn’t lose to Detroit and Miami.