The pandemic is killing the myth that people can't work from home and be productive.  We've known this for years and many companies have embraced it.  There are obviously jobs you have to be there, but for any job that can work from home there's no reason to not allow employees to work remote.

Many companies have realized they can save a lot of money on real estate by having smaller spaces with hoteling spaces instead of permanent assigned desks and more conference and meeting rooms.  People can come in if they want to or don't have good space at home, come in when there are meetings that are necessary (important meetings that couldn't be done via email or conference calls).  

For workers, you don't waste time on commute, stuck in traffic, save money on gas, don't eat out as often and eat at home so it saves money, spend more time with family.  It's convenient to go to doctor appointments and other errands that are typically closer to home, events at your kids school stuff like that.

People take less sick time and end up working longer hours.  It's easier to roll out of bed, get coffee and start work and then keep going right up til dinner.  At the office, you have to leave to beat traffic.  Some people have commutes that can take an hour in traffic.  That hour could be spent working instead.  There's also work/life balance.

Too many managers say they can't trust their people, that they will be on the couch watching TV and just looking out for emails.  Well, the pandemic has made working at home required for many people.  And that's why you have results oriented approach:  you have work expected to be done with deadlines and I need to see the results.  If someone can't handle it, fire them.  Or require those individuals to be in the office.  

 

Office cube farms are a nightmare for people who are introverted and quiet, analytical, software people who need to concentrate on coding, etc.  People constantly interrupt, stop and have conversations near you about a TV show and people take more breaks and socialize.  We have people from all over the country visit for meetings since I'm at headquarters.  They all float around and use the lounge spaces to work.  They have loud cell phone conversations near you, or they walk around shouting in their phone. 

I have a co-worker who gets up for a cup of coffee and it turns into 30-40 minutes away.  We have a coffee station right next to our cube area but she goes upstairs to the main floor.  She stops to talk to various people.  She will ask someone a quick work question then later say "I met with so-and-so on this" making it sound like they sat down for a meeting.  

I'm way more productive at home without distractions. Even then, during the day there's so much "noise" from emails, IMs, meetings.  I get more valuable work done after 3 or 4pm then I do all day.  I will often stop at 4 or 5 to be with family, then if I need to I'll work again after I put my son to bed.  Without any work distractions (email, IM, meetings), and after taking that break for a few hours I am very productive at night and get things done.

@UK_EaglesFan89 what's your experience?

My last company I travelled to our UK offices a few times.  Some countries have a 30 hour or 35 hour work week.  I had a Director who said she was shocked by the UK culture (this could just be that company or that office though) that she felt like they wasted so much time not getting work done.  They were in a huge open area with desks but not walls or cubes, not even a small wall.  She said people all day are just constantly talking to each other about personal things, TV shows, over hearing conversations and stopping their work to chime in.  

Our UK colleagues also seemed to constantly be going out for drinks afterwards and leaving work early.  You'd be trying to book meetings in the window of time our time zones overlap and they would have chunks of time on their calendars to go out for drinks.  

They also get a lot more vacation time and have 2 week "Annual Leave."

One year as Easter weekend was approaching colleagues on my team shared they have off on Good Friday and Easter Monday as company holidays.  I said we don't get those off.  A woman who was originally from Belgium said she thought America was very Christian and that we'd have those holidays.  

Just now, NOTW said:

A woman who was originally from Belgium said she thought America was very Christian and that we'd have those holidays.  

America is very Christian, but we are even more ironic. 

Andrew Carnegie closed his steel plant one day every year - the 4th of July.  Which means they worked 12-hour shifts on Christmas, Easter, and every other holiday.

5 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Have you read Why Works Sucks and how to fix it?

I read the blurb on Amazon and some reviews.  The reviews seem to say it could have easily been an article not a full book, and that most of the book is more like a sales pitch and the story of Best Buy rather than principles and practical steps to implement at your company.  But I tend to go through these type of books and get any principles or ideas I can as I might not agree with everything, or not every idea is practical for my work.  But I think you can learn something from the experience.

One comment I liked was the idea that grown adults have to beg for time off from their boss to go to their kid's school or take their kid to the doctor or something.  We should not have to be fearful of the boss saying no, or being judged for not being at work.  Adults can figure out how to balance their schedule and make up work time.  Obviously there may be important meetings, events or certain deadlines.

I hate the idea that employees feel they need to spin a story when they're sick too.  You are not required to list your symptoms for "prove" to your boss you're sick.  You just say I'm taking a sick day.  

My boss is supportive and knows I get the work done.  Usually I don't ask permission I just tell him, hey I'm going to be out a couple hours, I have a parent/teacher meeting at my son's school and I'm running an errand while we're out, be back later.  This happened the other day and there was a company wide meeting and for that I asked to make sure he was ok with me missing it.  

We're adults.  And if people aren't responsible and aren't producing results, discipline or fire them. 

12 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Andrew Carnegie closed his steel plant one day every year - the 4th of July.  Which means they worked 12-hour shifts on Christmas, Easter, and every other holiday.

Large industrial facilities can't shut down without huge costs. My dad worked at an oil refinery his whole life. While he and the others engineers took holidays off, operators had to be there 24/7/365. Guys loved working holidays -- 2x pay.

14 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I read the blurb on Amazon and some reviews.  The reviews seem to say it could have easily been an article not a full book, and that most of the book is more like a sales pitch and the story of Best Buy rather than principles and practical steps to implement at your company.  But I tend to go through these type of books and get any principles or ideas I can as I might not agree with everything, or not every idea is practical for my work.  But I think you can learn something from the experience.

One comment I liked was the idea that grown adults have to beg for time off from their boss to go to their kid's school or take their kid to the doctor or something.  We should not have to be fearful of the boss saying no, or being judged for not being at work.  Adults can figure out how to balance their schedule and make up work time.  Obviously there may be important meetings, events or certain deadlines.

I hate the idea that employees feel they need to spin a story when they're sick too.  You are not required to list your symptoms for "prove" to your boss you're sick.  You just say I'm taking a sick day.  

My boss is supportive and knows I get the work done.  Usually I don't ask permission I just tell him, hey I'm going to be out a couple hours, I have a parent/teacher meeting at my son's school and I'm running an errand while we're out, be back later.  This happened the other day and there was a company wide meeting and for that I asked to make sure he was ok with me missing it.  

We're adults.  And if people aren't responsible and aren't producing results, discipline or fire them. 

This is 100% not true, because most people aren't responsible adults. Most people with kids use them as an excuse to try and get out of work and it is nauseating the sense of entitlement they have. Oh, you reproduced? Good for you. We are paying you a salary to work and are paying for your time. If you want to go to Johnny's karate tournament, and that's more important to you, then find a more flexible job. (P.S., sorry Johnny lost to that new kid from New Jersey).

Most people aren't responsible adults. Most are basically children looking to get away with doing as little as possible. And none are worse than those who think that "my kid has a thing" is a legitimate reason to just skip work. We had one assistant who kept pulling that crap, so we cut her pay. 

EDIT: People show you who they are and how responsible they are. My assistant is great and always available. She wanted to go help her sister move and take a day off -- no problem. But others who pull disappearing acts? Yeah, they need to make a choice.

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

No, I'll check out reviews. 

I'm reading the 4 hour workweek now. A few months ago I read The Productivity Project, which I recommend. I've read some articles about these topics as well. I've worked in HR for almost 20 years, the last 10 years on the systems side. In dealing with being under staffed with too many projects and requests I'm always looking for ways to be efficient, innovative and delegate. 

Why Works Sucks was written by 2 leaders at Best Buy who implemented a system change that affected the typical work schedule, and how employees were graded.  Now, it was written in 2008. I’m not sure if they were able to keep with the system or not in the 12 years since.  But I thought it was a good read and had interesting concepts that made sense.

Basically they talked about how employees seemed to be graded by how long they were seen at their desk, how many hours they worked, etc... and not their actual productivity. 
So they basically got rid of the standard work day hours.  Workers could have whatever schedule they wanted so long as it was communicated to their superiors.  No limit on vacation days.  And focus on grading employees on productivity.  
Overall productivity increased, worker satisfaction increased.  Voluntary turnover decreased, and involuntary turnover (ie firing someone) increased. 

Just now, vikas83 said:

This is 100% not true, because most people aren't responsible adults. Most people with kids use them as an excuse to try and get out of work and it is nauseating the sense of entitlement they have. Oh, you reproduced? Good for you. We are paying you a salary to work and are paying for your time. If you want to go to Johnny's karate tournament, and that's more important to you, then find a more flexible job. (P.S., sorry Johnny lost to that new kid from New Jersey).

Most people aren't responsible adults. Most are basically children looking to get away with doing as little as possible. And none are worse than those who think that "my kid has a thing" is a legitimate reason to just skip work. We had one assistant who kept pulling that crap, so we cut her pay. 

You make it sound like wanting to go to your kid’s basketball game on a weekday afternoon is some sort of travesty.

Just now, Dave Moss said:

You make it sound like wanting to go to your kid’s basketball game on a weekday afternoon is some sort of travesty.

If you took a job that has fixed hours and are accepting a salary for it, then fulfill your commitment or forfeit your salary. 

5 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This is 100% not true, because most people aren't responsible adults. Most people with kids use them as an excuse to try and get out of work and it is nauseating the sense of entitlement they have. Oh, you reproduced? Good for you. We are paying you a salary to work and are paying for your time. If you want to go to Johnny's karate tournament, and that's more important to you, then find a more flexible job. (P.S., sorry Johnny lost to that new kid from New Jersey).

 

22 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Andrew Carnegie closed his steel plant one day every year - the 4th of July.  Which means they worked 12-hour shifts on Christmas, Easter, and every other holiday.

Back in the day when unions were actually necessary

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

If you took a job that has fixed hours and are accepting a salary for it, then fulfill your commitment or forfeit your salary. 

Well, that’s kind of the point.  If you’re getting your work done, then who cares if you take a half day to go watch little Johnny’s tournament.  Or just use vacation time to do it, or whatever it may be. 

19 minutes ago, NOTW said:

One comment I liked was the idea that grown adults have to beg for time off from their boss to go to their kid's school or take their kid to the doctor or something.  We should not have to be fearful of the boss saying no, or being judged for not being at work.  Adults can figure out how to balance their schedule and make up work time.  Obviously there may be important meetings, events or certain deadlines. 

I can only speak for my own personal experience, but I have found the complete opposite to be true.  I have a fairly demanding, performance driven job.  Clients demanding results.  Company demanding a very high % of my hours worked billed to a client.  Etc.  Going through 5 years for fertility treatments and now adoption related appointments, my work has been excellent allowing me to break from normal routine and get done what I need to get done.  "Do you have coverage?  Great!  Take care of your wife\family"

14 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Well, that’s kind of the point.  If you’re getting your work done, then who cares if you take a half day to go watch little Johnny’s tournament.  Or just use vacation time to do it, or whatever it may be. 

Yeah, but you have to prove that to me. People today come in entitled to think that they should be able to go anytime their "kid has a thing." No. Hell No. You have to prove you are responsible and will get things done, and then the rules can be relaxed. But I assume any new employee is basically worthless to start.

You have to earn the right to have flexibility. It's not just granted. Same thing I say when analysts want to give me their opinions on things -- you have to earn the right to have an opinion.

25 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This is 100% not true, because most people aren't responsible adults. Most people with kids use them as an excuse to try and get out of work and it is nauseating the sense of entitlement they have. Oh, you reproduced? Good for you. We are paying you a salary to work and are paying for your time. If you want to go to Johnny's karate tournament, and that's more important to you, then find a more flexible job. (P.S., sorry Johnny lost to that new kid from New Jersey).

Most people aren't responsible adults. Most are basically children looking to get away with doing as little as possible. And none are worse than those who think that "my kid has a thing" is a legitimate reason to just skip work. We had one assistant who kept pulling that crap, so we cut her pay. 

EDIT: People show you who they are and how responsible they are. My assistant is great and always available. She wanted to go help her sister move and take a day off -- no problem. But others who pull disappearing acts? Yeah, they need to make a choice.

It was an illegal kick to the face!

With good people being hard to find most employers don't make you beg for time off. At least in my experience

When the pandemic hit and we sent everyone home in Q2 2020, basically all our employees but one were adults and stepped up to the plate. They got their work done, responded to emails/calls, and helped make things run smoothly. One employee pulled a disappearing act. When I called her, she claimed she had to focus on her kids. So, we said fine -- your pay is reduced 67%. She cried she couldn't afford to live on that (it was still 6 figures), so we told her we would provide severance and a great reference. 

She still works for us at a 50% salary reduction. 

You get what you earn.

10 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Yeah, but you have to prove that to me. People today come in entitled to think that they should be able to go anytime their "kid has a thing." No. Hell No. You have to prove you are responsible and will get things done, and then the rules can be relaxed. But I assume any new employee is basically worthless to start.

You have to earn the right to have flexibility. It's not just granted. Same thing I say when analysts want to give me their opinions on things -- you have to earn the right to have an opinion.

Oh agreed, it has to be proven. 
When I started at my current job, if I wanted to take a day for something, or a few hours off to handle something, I’d request the time from my boss.

But once I built a trust with my boss where he knows he can count on me to get my stuff done, I would just tell him I’m taking off. 

13 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It was an illegal kick to the face!

Proper term is undocumented!

2 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

But once I built a trust with my boss where he knows he can count on me to get my stuff done, I would just tell him I’m taking off. 

That pretty much describes my work situation. I can almost come and go as I please, but if I have to handle anything my boss doesn’t question it and I can just go

And to cut off the liberal screeching, we took the money saved by cutting her pay and gave other people raises. So our employee costs stayed the same.

At the end of the day, people need to realize it's a symbiotic relationship. Good employees won't tolerate being unfairly treated like a child/slave and will leave to find something better if it persists. Likewise employers won't tolerate bad employees expecting to be treated like an adult/star and will get rid of them if their poor performance/behavior persists. For most industries/professions, the market generally arbitrates things fairly well. If an employer complains about not being able to find qualified employees, maybe the job just sucks. If an employee complains about not being paid enough, maybe they just suck.