1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

Lack of parenting is ruining this country.

Whiny beotch parents whine and complain that the school isn't teaching manners, behavior, etc. These should come from YOU beotch, and the teachers REINFORCE by their similar behavior.

Kids are now raised by game consoles, TV and YouTube, because their beotch parents won't take their responsibility seriously.

Parents were HORRIFIED by my 'military' attitude. I'm a veteran, but USAF, not combat. I fixed radar. As a parent you have to make rules and then enforce them. You have to be consistent.

More important, you have to spend time with them BEING the kind of person you want them to be.

This. A million times, this. 

Somehow parents have decided that being their kids' friend is more important than being a parent. It's infuriating. When I was a kid, my parents weren't my friends -- they were basically the wardens. I tried to get away with stuff, they caught me and enforced the rules. The lack of discipline is stunning. I watch parents negotiate with 8 year old children to stop throwing a temper tantrum, and I want to smack the parents upside the head. 

The sad part -- it still doesn't work. My brother did this with his kids (at his wife's urging). Now the older one thinks he is basically Hitler because he raised his voice to her in public. How dare he??? They had to send her to talk to someone about her feelings about it. 

And I have friends who are teachers, and I will never comprehend the parents that complain about their kids failing and argue for higher grades. The teachers just don't want to have to deal with all the BS. One of my closest friends is the athletic director at a high school, and when cuts happen, he is flooded by calls from angry parents claiming the coaches are all out to get their kids. 

Basically -- kids suck. This is why I have dogs.

It does not take a nuclear family to raise a good person.

It just takes time, effort and a willingness to do a really difficult job, every day, until they leave the nest.

Frankly, this is another problem - all these kids living at home. Parents make it too easy for them to not have to take any responsibility for themselves.

If you parent right, the child WANTS to leave. To finally be able to make their own rules, make their own way, have their own space with nobody to tell them different.

Parents today give their child a phone, don't make them pay the bill and wow, they feel entitled to it and never care to go get their own. What for?

Stop making it easy for your kids. The entire goal of parenting is pushing them out of the nest so they can go and make their own mistakes, hopefully live through them, and grow the F up.

6 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

When I think of nuclear family, I think of it as strictly a married mother/father relationship. As long as you have two (or more for all I care) loving parents, I don't see why that couldn't be effective. I do think that single-parent households are very difficult on kids' performance, though.

I see what your saying, but in reality who wants to raise another person's kids.  Maybe @vikas83 would because he just loves kids.  Your best bet is to have the mother and father in the child's life providing guidance rather than relying on others to do it.  School can only do so much.  Once that kid leaves it's on the onus of the parents and if your a single mom working 3 jobs it's not an easy task.  Call me crazy, but maybe you should think about that before firing out 3 kids.

Just now, vikas83 said:

This. A million times, this. 

Somehow parents have decided that being their kids' friend is more important than being a parent. It's infuriating. When I was a kid, my parents weren't my friends -- they were basically the wardens. I tried to get away with stuff, they caught me and enforced the rules. The lack of discipline is stunning. I watch parents negotiate with 8 year old children to stop throwing a temper tantrum, and I want to smack the parents upside the head. 

The sad part -- it still doesn't work. My brother did this with his kids (at his wife's urging). Now the older one thinks he is basically Hitler because he raised his voice to her in public. How dare he??? They had to send her to talk to someone about her feelings about it. 

And I have friends who are teachers, and I will never comprehend the parents that complain about their kids failing and argue for higher grades. The teachers just don't want to have to deal with all the BS. One of my closest friends is the athletic director at a high school, and when cuts happen, he is flooded by calls from angry parents claiming the coaches are all out to get their kids. 

Basically -- kids suck. This is why I have dogs.

This is SO Fing true. They don't want to be seen as mean parents.

Cousins negotiated EVERYTHING with their son. Every meal, every bed time, everything.

STOP RUINING YOUR CHILDREN BY MAKING EVERYTHING EASY FOR THEM.

MAKE THEM EARN THINGS. HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

if people had fewer kids, stayed married, & were better parents... things would be much better. 

okay..fix it!

 

 

7 minutes ago, rambo said:

I see what your saying, but in reality who wants to raise another person's kids.  Maybe @vikas83 would because he just loves kids.  Your best bet is to have the mother and father in the child's life providing guidance rather than relying on others to do it.  School can only do so much.  Once that kid leaves it's on the onus of the parents and if your a single mom working 3 jobs it's not an easy task.  Call me crazy, but maybe you should think about that before firing out 3 kids.

I think we mostly agree, though. Like I said, single-parent households are very difficult on kids. I would not advocate for that arrangement. Nuclear means specifically a married (traditionally heterosexual) couple raising the kids themselves, but what about extended-family arrangements? Many non-Western cultures rely on a large-scale network of immediate and extended family to not only raise children but care for the elderly, sometimes housed under a single roof but at least residing within close geographic proximity. Asia in general comes to mind specifically in regard to this,

Just now, EaglesRocker97 said:

I think we mostly agree, though. Like I said, single-parent households are very difficult on kids. Nuclear means specifically a married couple raising the kids themselves, but what about extended-family arrangements? Many non-Western cultures rely on a large-scale network of immediate and extended family to not only raise children but care for the elderly, sometimes housed under a single roof but at least residing within close geographic proximity. Asia in general comes to mind specifically in regard to this,

Problem is when the nuclear family breakdown spans generations that extended family is hard to come by.

7 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

if people had fewer kids, stayed married, & were better parents... things would be much better. 

okay..fix it!

 

 

Stop giving people on public assistance more money when they have more kids they can't afford.

Fixed it.

7 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

if people had fewer kids, stayed married, & were better parents... things would be much better. 

okay..fix it!

 

 

I did!  It took about 3 days to fully recover.

Just now, vikas83 said:

Stop giving people on public assistance more money when they have more kids they can't afford.

Fixed it.

I'm in favor of forced sterilization for people who have another kid when they're already on public assistance.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Stop giving people on public assistance more money when they have more kids they can't afford.

Fixed it.

That would help a bit with the less kids part.  Wouldn't do anything for the staying married (probably would have an adverse effect on this) or the being better parents part.

Actually the breakdown starts with folks having sex thinking they are invincible and there will be no consequences.  I was young and dumb, got married to the 1st fluke that asked me and whoops, here comes kid #1.   Parenting and staying married were 2 of the hardest things I've ever done.   I wholeheartedly agree it's up to the parents.  They need rules while also being encouraged without entitlements (like the phones!) If I didn't get involved in #2's education, he might still be in hs.  That was hard.  I'm so glad it's over and they are grown kind responsible adults.

 

Edited to say.  I don't see any grandchildren anytime in my future.  Frankly, in today's world, I'm OK with this.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Stop giving people on public assistance more money when they have more kids they can't afford.

Fixed it.

not quite fixed.  unless you believe all the non-nuclear familes and not so great parents are on public assistance. 

they're not, btw. 

Parents must be involved in the child's education. That's it. That's the solution. If not the child's parents, then pass that guardianship to somebody else. It starts with the parents/guardians before anybody else outside the traditional family unit can get involved. Once we start assuming the community is going to pick up the slack and raise the kids, that's where you get: It's the school's fault for failing my kid. The school failed to teach what it's supposed to, it's not my kid's fault he failed...

Take accountability. The kid takes responsibility for his grades. The parents take responsibility for not following up/reaching out for help. The school can't help anyone until everybody takes responsibility.

14 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

not quite fixed.  unless you believe all the non-nuclear familes and not so great parents are on public assistance. 

they're not, btw. 

But nice to see you agree it would make a material impact. So let's do it -- anyone on public assistance who has another child is immediately dropped. 

3 minutes ago, toolg said:

Parents must be involved in the child's education. That's it. That's the solution. If not the child's parents, then pass that guardianship to somebody else. It starts with the parents/guardians before anybody else outside the traditional family unit can get involved. Once we start assuming the community is going to pick up the slack and raise the kids, that's where you get: It's the school's fault for failing my kid. The school failed to teach what it's supposed to, it's not my kid's fault he failed...

Take accountability. The kid takes responsibility for his grades. The parents take responsibility for not following up/reaching out for help. The school can't help anyone until everybody takes responsibility.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

But nice to see you agree it would make a material impact. So let's do it -- anyone on public assistance who has another child is immediately dropped. 

whoa...whoa!...slow down. i haven't agreed to anything yet.

where are we dropping them?  off a cliff? into a volcano? the middle of texas? the devil is in the details. 

Just now, mr_hunt said:

whoa...whoa!...slow down. i haven't agreed to anything yet.

where are we dropping them?  off a cliff? into a volcano? the middle of texas? the devil is in the details. 

Into real life where they are responsible for themselves. 

Or as you liberals call it -- the scariest hell on earth.

7 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Into real life where they are responsible for themselves. 

Or as you liberals call it -- the scariest hell on earth.

a hungry parent is a good parent!  you might be onto something. this could really have an impact on children!   

19 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

But nice to see you agree it would make a material impact. So let's do it -- anyone on public assistance who has another child is immediately dropped. 

I wouldn't drop them, but I could get on board with something scaled in which you get a small but reduced benefit increase at first to where it actually decreases your benefits to have more, depending on how many kids you already have.

2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

a hungry parent is a good parent!  you might be onto something. this could really have an impact on children!   

either way, that's their fault for being poor. 

2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

a hungry parent is a good parent!  you might be onto something. this could really have an impact on children!   

Correct.  They'd be swallowing those protein loads instead of taking deposits in the baby maker.

Just now, mr_hunt said:

a hungry parent is a good parent!  you might be onto something. this could really have an impact on children!   

Yeah, because the idea that they might actually get off their arse and find a way to feed their kids is unrealistic. 

If they can't? Plenty of people out there want to adopt. I have 2 friends that lost adoptions because the mother changed her mind. Those single mothers had the luxury of keeping the kids because we pay to raise them. Let's stop doing that. 

But, no, let's remove people from all responsibility and consequences. What could possibly go wrong with having no negative feedback for poor choices?  

None of the ridiculous parents at my kid's schools were poor, welfare recipients.

Fine, upstanding suburban d-bags. That should not have had kids, since they don't want the job.

3 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

I wouldn't drop them, but I could get on board with something scaled in which you get a small but reduced benefit increase at first to where it actually decreases your benefits to have more, depending on how many kids you already have.

While I would go further, this would obviously help a ton. We need to stop incentivizing and rewarding poor decisions. 

Just now, Toastrel said:

None of the ridiculous parents at my kid's schools were poor, welfare recipients.

Fine, upstanding suburban d-bags. That should not have had kids, since they don't want the job.

Yeah, those folks need to be dealt with as well. I don't have kids because (i) I don't want the job and (ii) I wouldn't be able to handle the disappointment of seeing them corrupted by this current climate. These morons chose to have kids and need to be made responsible for them. Here's a few suggestions:

1. Have administrators back teachers who actually fail students, instead of backing the parents. Stop tying funding to metrics like grade advancement and test scores (removing the incentive to inflate grades). NEVER change a grade just because a parent complains -- make that a firm policy.

2. Stop overcorrecting on the crusade against bullying and mean words. Raise kids that will be able to deal with things going wrong in life.

3. Stop giving every kid a trophy. Start keeping score in games again. Reward only kids who excel -- make the kids who don't win want to try harder instead of telling them it isn't their fault.

There will always be bad parents. But this crap isn't helping.