1 minute ago, Dave Moss said:

You buy it, Doc?

Do I buy what?

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

Do I buy what?

That Martin Gugino is in Antifa

Just now, Dave Moss said:

That Martin Gugino is in Antifa

That would surprise me very much.  Do you believe it?

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

That would surprise me very much.  Do you believe it?

No, I don’t believe anything Trump says. 

But you did say he wasn’t pushed very hard.  You think he fell like that on purpose?

2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

No, I don’t believe anything Trump says. 

But you did say he wasn’t pushed very hard.  You think he fell like that on purpose?

Yes I did.  I said he wasn't pushed very hard but then stumbled and tripped.  That ever happen to you?

edit: A hint to answering your question are the words "stumbled and tripped".

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Yes I did.  I said he wasn't pushed very hard but then stumbled and tripped.  That ever happen to you?

edit: A hint to answering your question are the words "stumbled and tripped".

I think if you pushed any 75-year-old man like that, they’d probably fall down in a similar manner.  His feet were together when he got pushed (which is why he’s still in the hospital).

7 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

No, I don’t believe anything Trump says. 

But you did say he wasn’t pushed very hard.  You think he fell like that on purpose?

that seems like a stretch

We sure this guy had the appropriate permit to be out there protesting though?  Has anyone done a deep dive into his priors?  Are we sure he's not a deep state ANTIFA agent? Has anyone checked his voter registration status? I'm not saying this elderly man necessarily deserved to have his skull smashed, I'm just asking questions.

Just getting those stupid a** talking point out of the way now

1 minute ago, Dave Moss said:

I think if you pushed any 75-year-old man like that, they’d probably fall down in a similar manner.  His feet were together when he got pushed (which is why he’s still in the hospital).

No that's not true.  Plenty of 75-year olds would have been fine with that one.  Some 20 year olds would not have though.

Anyway, have you ever gotten off balance and stumbled and fell?

3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

No that's not true.  Plenty of 75-year olds would have been fine with that one.  Some 20 year olds would not have though.

Anyway, have you ever gotten off balance and stumbled and fell?

Like in my normal routine?  No.  About a year ago my youngest daughter wanted me to put on my rollerblades.  Then I fell in the driveway/street.  I’m less stable on wheels I guess.

Just now, Dave Moss said:

Like in my normal routine?  No.  About a year ago my youngest daughter wanted me to put on my rollerblades.  Then I fell in the driveway/street.  I’m less stable on wheels I guess.

C'mon dude.

The bottom line is the dude was pushed lightly, stumbled, tripped, and fell.  He didn't fall on purpose but he wasn't violently pushed either.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

C'mon dude.

The bottom line is the dude was pushed lightly, stumbled, tripped, and fell.  He didn't fall on purpose but he wasn't violently pushed either.

Agree to disagree I guess.

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

C'mon dude.

The bottom line is the dude was pushed lightly, stumbled, tripped, and fell.  He didn't fall on purpose but he wasn't violently pushed either.

I don't think the cop meant to hurt him to that extent. 

Lacking the foresight/training/common-sense/whatever to not realize shoving a guy that age is a bad idea is a big part of the problem.

6 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

C'mon dude.

The bottom line is the dude was pushed lightly, stumbled, tripped, and fell.  He didn't fall on purpose but he wasn't violently pushed either.

Yeah, if that was your 75 yr old dad getting pushed like that, I don't think you would say that.  Most people that age simply don't have any balance and they fall over in a stiff wind.  That's exactly why anybody with 2 cents in their noggin doesn't push them.  A 75 yr old doesn't flop mate, they are rightly afraid of breaking their hip on a good day.

Police often have to make split-second decisions.  Tamir Rice was 5’7” and 160 lbs.  It wasn’t until after police shot him that they found out he was a 12-year-old kid with a toy gun.

Cops should have been able to tell Gugino was an old man though.  They were looking him right in the face.

44 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I don't think the cop meant to hurt him to that extent. 

Lacking the foresight/training/common-sense/whatever to not realize shoving a guy that age is a bad idea is a big part of the problem.

Of course but the dude also fell and tripped.  I'm not defending the officer.  His actions were not correct and he deserved to be suspended and put under investigation.

44 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Yeah, if that was your 75 yr old dad getting pushed like that, I don't think you would say that.  Most people that age simply don't have any balance and they fall over in a stiff wind.  That's exactly why anybody with 2 cents in their noggin doesn't push them.  A 75 yr old doesn't flop mate, they are rightly afraid of breaking their hip on a good day.

Yes I absolutely would, 100%.  The cop was not right but he didn't push with any level of violence.  It was like a 6yr old level of push on the playground in some silly game.  The dude took 4 stumbling steps back and due to his wobbily legs and age he tripped and fell.  It really isn't that hard to see.

Why is it so hard for people to have a nuanced discussion these days?

51 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Agree to disagree I guess.

Sure.  We've done that many times before.  I'm sure you've been mostly right many of those times and I've been mostly right in many others.  Most of these types of things aren't black/white.

 

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Yes I absolutely would, 100%.  The cop was not right but he didn't push with any level of violence.  It was like a 6yr old level of push on the playground in some silly game.  The dude took 4 stumbling steps back and due to his wobbily legs and age he tripped and fell.  It really isn't that hard to see.

Why is it so hard for people to have a nuanced discussion these days?

Because there is no nuance to this.  You don't push old people, because they fall easily and hurt themselves.  MOST of them fall over like a 6 year old and trip themselves.  They fall in the shower FFS.  Your argument is bonkers, you don't hit women or children or push old people,  they are frail and that's exactly what is going to happen. 

2 hours ago, Paul852 said:

What does "fell harder than pushed" even mean? Is he suggesting that a 75 year old man pulled a Pao Gasol

FYP

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

No that's not true.  Plenty of 75-year olds would have been fine with that one.  Some 20 year olds would not have though.

Anyway, have you ever gotten off balance and stumbled and fell?

Maybe you live in a town of retired surfers?  Me and my wife are empty nesters that spend a lot of time with our ageing parents.  Her dad is 75, major balance problems, her mom is 74, knee replacement a couple years ago, my mom uses a walker.  My dad, yeah he can take a push if he braces for it, but if you catch him flat footed he's going down.

15 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Maybe you live in a town of retired surfers?  Me and my wife are empty nesters that spend a lot of time with our ageing parents.  Her dad is 75, major balance problems, her mom is 74, knee replacement a couple years ago, my mom uses a walker.  My dad, yeah he can take a push if he braces for it, but if you catch him flat footed he's going down.

Yep, this is my point.  They pushed that guy when he was standing straight up with his feet together which means he wasn’t bracing at all for it.

My dad is also 75.

i don't think they were trying to push him over...but they did.  now they have to live with the results of their actions. 

1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

i don't think they were trying to push him over...but they did.  now they have to live with the results of their actions. 

And how we saw everyone walk past him like he was a pile of trash. 

20 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

And how we saw everyone walk past him like he was a pile of trash. 

he received medical treatment from a trained professional within 20s. watch the full video. there were people with the cops designated for medical situations, and they were called in immediately by the supervisor - the same one that pulled the other guy away because it wasn't his job. get the medic on it.

optics are bad, for sure. but notwithstanding that he shouldn't have been shoved in the first place, it was handled as best as can be given the circumstances. 

they weren't walking past him not caring about him. they were letting the professional medic handle it.

59 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Of course but the dude also fell and tripped.  I'm not defending the officer.  His actions were not correct and he deserved to be suspended and put under investigation.

As the elderly are wont to do when pushed.  I see your point man and I get that the conversations need to be more nuanced in general and careful (the falsely doxxed bike guy comes to mind), I just don't see this as a really significant detail in this particular case outside of maybe a court case. Agree to disagree though.