1 hour ago, xBMTx said:

Any explanation to what happened after the 75 y/o man was assaulted? Why did all the cops ignore the injured man, one of them even pulled another cop away who thought about helping him. It looked like a couple men from the National Guard to help him out after several cops walked right past him.

He went out in an ambulance. I think he suffered a concussion, but I could be wrong. I know, after watching the video again, he does wave a smart phone (?) in front of a couple cops. Still no reason to push a man down who is that old. Martin Gugino has been a civil rights activist almost all his life. I doubt he has any ties to ANTIFA.

My mother in law is like a level 5 Catholic and is extremely involved with the church and volunteer work. Apparently this guy is a well known Catholic Charities volunteer. I'm not sure how much Trump counts on the Catholic vote, but this won't turn out well for him in that regard. 

31 minutes ago, Gannan said:

My mother in law is like a level 5 Catholic and is extremely involved with the church and volunteer work. Apparently this guy is a well known Catholic Charities volunteer. I'm not sure how much Trump counts on the Catholic vote, but this won't turn out well for him in that regard. 

your mother in law is probably antifa too.

1 hour ago, SPIDER-MAN said:

He went out in an ambulance. I think he suffered a concussion, but I could be wrong. I know, after watching the video again, he does wave a smart phone (?) in front of a couple cops. Still no reason to push a man down who is that old. Martin Gugino has been a civil rights activist almost all his life. I doubt he has any ties to ANTIFA.

Having been a civil rights activist his whole life, he has a much greater chance of crossing paths with antifa activists than most normal people do

2 hours ago, vikas83 said:

 

The Trump administration used force to move peaceful protesters out of Lafayette Square so that the President could have a photo op in front of a church. They violated people's Constitutional rights for a PHOTO OP because the President was mad for being called a wimp and going down to the bunker. This would have ruined any other President -- with Trump, it's a 24 hour story. 

Well if the protesters hadn't set fire to the church in the first place, there wouldnt have been a photo op to go to

He's got the insurrection act behind him as far as I can imagine.  When its an insurrection and the commander and chief wants to go somewhere, they can use tear gas

8 minutes ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

Well if the protesters hadn't set fire to the church in the first place, there wouldnt have been a photo op to go to

He's got the insurrection act behind him as far as I can imagine.  When its an insurrection and the commander and chief wants to go somewhere, they can use tear gas

Use better bait if you want to catch more fish...

3 hours ago, Lloyd said:

I glanced at this thread an hour ago, like "Sheesh. These people are even polarized about a 75 year old bleeding from his head. Everything's debatable now. Gravity is debatable."  

Anyway, you summed it up in a way that I was too lazy and cynical to devote effort to. 

 

Actually, there is a member here that does not believe in gravity....

23 minutes ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

Well if the protesters hadn't set fire to the church in the first place, there wouldnt have been a photo op to go to

He's got the insurrection act behind him as far as I can imagine.  When its an insurrection and the commander and chief wants to go somewhere, they can use tear gas

42 minutes ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

Having been a civil rights activist his whole life, he has a much greater chance of crossing paths with antifa activists than most normal people do

Meh, you gotta work on your subtleness. 3/10 troll job.  

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

Meh, you gotta work on your subtleness. 3/10 troll job.  

im only half kidding.  i really dont give an ish about those protesters

 

1 hour ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

im only half kidding.  i really dont give an ish about those protesters

We know. It's pretty clear you don't care about the rights of others.

Because of course. 

31 minutes ago, L.E said:

Because of course. 

Deep state Russians? Or just mildly interested in overthrowing our government Russians?  
Details matter. 

14 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.  The policeman used poor judgement and made an agressive action against an elderly man, sending him to the hospital.  No he didn't kill him.

 

14 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

The detail I'm referring to?  Him stumbling after being pushed.  The details I find much more significant?  The combination of stupid and overly-aggressive  behaviour that led the cop to show an old man. I recognize they're both true, but I don't consider them remotely at the same level of significance.  

 

If the old man had not fallen down we wouldn't be discussing this. Why?  Because the cop's intention was to move the old man out of the way and nothing more.  The cop did not intend to harm, knock down, strike or act violently toward the old dude.  Had the cop swung wildly with his baton at this guy and missed I'd have the opposite opinion.  No harm done BUT a gross level of misconduct and an attempted incident of police brutality.  This is not an example of how we should define the term "police brutality" or "serious assault" which are the headlines I saw time and again.  This is yet another case of sensationalism from both sides the most ridiculous being Trump's tweet from yesterday.

The cop was wrong and deserved to be suspended and investigated and he must accept his responsibility in the end result where this old dude was quite seriously injured .  There is no debate about that.  It doesn't mean we just lump the incident into the same category as kneeling onto a guy's neck until he dies.  There has to be a chance to add some nuance and context or we will never be able to communicate and find common ground.  In any case, this incident is an excellent example of how easy bad things/results can occur in this type of heated and hectic scenario even with a minor level of crossing the line, in this case the one the cop crossed.  The focus in my mind should be on that aspect.  How easily things can go bad for everyone in this climate with just the slightest of provocation.  A lesson for all and most importantly here the police.

I'm reminded of the damage we get when we allow terms like "rape" or "racism" to be diluted.  It seems to add value on the surface and for a given situation as we are just saying "bad" but longer term it has a negative side effect making the overall impact a net negative.  I had this type of discussion with Munson time and again.

 

 

As Vikas says, let's keep our eye on the ball, "Orange guy bad".  Cheeto is mostly like the Chinese with death by 1000 cuts so for him you need to see the bigger picture.  His next cut is just a tweet away so he will forever move the ball on to the next minor "just a tweet" item.  His moment of reckoning is coming and I believe it is coming before the election.  It will be a watershed moment of people abandoning him OR he will make some level of clear power grab and succeed.  He isn't just going to lose the election and quietly move into the shadows.

 

8 hours ago, Paul852 said:

We know. It's pretty clear you don't care about the rights of others.

It’s pretty clear the protesters don’t care about the rights of others

3 hours ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

It’s pretty clear the protesters don’t care about the rights of others

14 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I’m pretty sure that’s the look some business owners had as their shops burned down

26 minutes ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

I’m pretty sure that’s the look some business owners had as their shops burned down

Oh, see, where you messed up was saying "protesters" instead of rioters. There have been plenty of peaceful protests.

6 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

If the old man had not fallen down we wouldn't be discussing this. Why?  Because the cop's intention was to move the old man out of the way and nothing more.  The cop did not intend to harm, knock down, strike or act violently toward the old dude.  Had the cop swung wildly with his baton at this guy and missed I'd have the opposite opinion.  No harm done BUT a gross level of misconduct and an attempted incident of police brutality.  This is not an example of how we should define the term "police brutality" or "serious assault" which are the headlines I saw time and again.  This is yet another case of sensationalism from both sides the most ridiculous being Trump's tweet from yesterday.

The cop was wrong and deserved to be suspended and investigated and he must accept his responsibility in the end result where this old dude was quite seriously injured .  There is no debate about that.  It doesn't mean we just lump the incident into the same category as kneeling onto a guy's neck until he dies.  There has to be a chance to add some nuance and context or we will never be able to communicate and find common ground.  In any case, this incident is an excellent example of how easy bad things/results can occur in this type of heated and hectic scenario even with a minor level of crossing the line, in this case the one the cop crossed.  The focus in my mind should be on that aspect.  How easily things can go bad for everyone in this climate with just the slightest of provocation.  A lesson for all and most importantly here the police.

I'm reminded of the damage we get when we allow terms like "rape" or "racism" to be diluted.  It seems to add value on the surface and for a given situation as we are just saying "bad" but longer term it has a negative side effect making the overall impact a net negative.  I had this type of discussion with Munson time and again.

As Vikas says, let's keep our eye on the ball, "Orange guy bad".  Cheeto is mostly like the Chinese with death by 1000 cuts so for him you need to see the bigger picture.  His next cut is just a tweet away so he will forever move the ball on to the next minor "just a tweet" item.  His moment of reckoning is coming and I believe it is coming before the election.  It will be a watershed moment of people abandoning him OR he will make some level of clear power grab and succeed.  He isn't just going to lose the election and quietly move into the shadows.

Yeah I still firmly disagree. Shoving someone unecessarily is a violent act IMO and while it's less violent than a wild baton swing, it still has a very realistic chance of causing serious damage to an old person (it's literally the #1 cause of emergency room visits in that age group). I don't really buy the intent argument either. I'm pretty sure Chauvin didn't think he was going to kill Floyd with his knee either yet here we are. Intent matters but when you're acting violently and ignorantly from a position if power so do results. 

It was a less violent act and less egregious act than Chauvin sure, but I have no issue recognizing that and still labeling it as police brutality or police assault. You have to balance not trying to diminish the impact of a phrase without trying to be diminutive about a situation. Not all cases of assault/racism/rape are equally egregious while still deserving the term. It's a hard line to draw and in this situation I guess we draw them in different places.

I won't lose lose perspective about the orange man. I dunno sometimes focusing on one of his F ups makes me feel as if they're not all just blowing over.  But yeah, I recognize there's a bigger issue at stake here and ultimately I'm bishing about about minutiae. I'll drop it. 

13 hours ago, L.E said:

Because of course. 

What tweet exactly? He has thousands a week. 

6 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

 

 

If the old man had not fallen down we wouldn't be discussing this. Why?  Because the cop's intention was to move the old man out of the way and nothing more.  The cop did not intend to harm, knock down, strike or act violently toward the old dude.  Had the cop swung wildly with his baton at this guy and missed I'd have the opposite opinion.  No harm done BUT a gross level of misconduct and an attempted incident of police brutality.  This is not an example of how we should define the term "police brutality" or "serious assault" which are the headlines I saw time and again.  This is yet another case of sensationalism from both sides the most ridiculous being Trump's tweet from yesterday.

The cop was wrong and deserved to be suspended and investigated and he must accept his responsibility in the end result where this old dude was quite seriously injured .  There is no debate about that.  It doesn't mean we just lump the incident into the same category as kneeling onto a guy's neck until he dies.  There has to be a chance to add some nuance and context or we will never be able to communicate and find common ground.  In any case, this incident is an excellent example of how easy bad things/results can occur in this type of heated and hectic scenario even with a minor level of crossing the line, in this case the one the cop crossed.  The focus in my mind should be on that aspect.  How easily things can go bad for everyone in this climate with just the slightest of provocation.  A lesson for all and most importantly here the police.

I'm reminded of the damage we get when we allow terms like "rape" or "racism" to be diluted.  It seems to add value on the surface and for a given situation as we are just saying "bad" but longer term it has a negative side effect making the overall impact a net negative.  I had this type of discussion with Munson time and again.

 

 

As Vikas says, let's keep our eye on the ball, "Orange guy bad".  Cheeto is mostly like the Chinese with death by 1000 cuts so for him you need to see the bigger picture.  His next cut is just a tweet away so he will forever move the ball on to the next minor "just a tweet" item.  His moment of reckoning is coming and I believe it is coming before the election.  It will be a watershed moment of people abandoning him OR he will make some level of clear power grab and succeed.  He isn't just going to lose the election and quietly move into the shadows.

 

Protect and serve 

1 hour ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Protect and serve 

if anything says we didn't really mean to harm you in any way, its the face on that cop looking down.

6 hours ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

It’s pretty clear the protesters don’t care about the rights of others

It’s pretty clear you don’t know the difference between a protestor and a looter. 

1 hour ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Protect and serve 

A picture is sometimes misleading and sometimes it speaks a thousand words.  This one is the latter.