F1 aka Verstappen vs Hamilton

[DaEagles4Life]

Hit the wall at 51G and was hit in the fastest corner going over 180mph

 

 

[20dawk4life]

Can't wait to see how Netflix shows this one

[TEW]

You misspelled Red Bull vs Mercedes.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Lewis Hamilton is the most naturally talented F1 driver of all time. But that move was reckless and desperate. 

[TEW]

7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Lewis Hamilton is the most naturally talented F1 driver of all time. But that move was reckless and desperate. 

Senna is the most naturally talented. Lauda the greatest mind.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

22 minutes ago, TEW said:

Senna is the most naturally talented. Lauda the greatest mind.

It's an interesting debate. One I'm sure we could go back and forth on. 

[TEW]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

It's an interesting debate. One I'm sure we could go back and forth on. 

And what’s a message board without a back and forth debate? 

What breaks the tie for me is how techno and system dominant today’s F1 is. It’s always been a major factor, obviously, but today it’s basically all down to the engineering teams. Drivers really make only a small difference. 

Senna had that weird throttle blip style in the turns and things like that actually made a difference 30 years ago (both positively and negatively depending on how the car breathed). Today’s drivers are more like system managers IMO. They don’t have unique techniques such as that to make a difference in today’s races.

My thought experiment is this: put Senna in a modern F1 developmental system instead of Brazil carting and then put him in the same car as any other driver and I think he wins the majority of the time. 

[DaEagles4Life]

Then would you argue Schumacher is part of this era of technological masterpieces in the cars or is prior to this argument 

 

Schumacher has a joint-record seven World Drivers' Championship titles and, at the time of his retirement from the sport in 2012, he held the records for the most wins (91), pole positions (68) and podium finishes (155)

[TEW]

5 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Then would you argue Schumacher is part of this era of technological masterpieces in the cars or is prior to this argument 

 

Schumacher has a joint-record seven World Drivers' Championship titles and, at the time of his retirement from the sport in 2012, he held the records for the most wins (91), pole positions (68) and podium finishes (155)

Most of Schumacher’s titles came in the 2000’s, and he never did win a title from Senna over a full season. Had Senna not died, would Shumacher have won in 94 and 95? I doubt it.

Ironically, it was the death of Senna (who, interestingly enough, was in lead position directly ahead of Schumacher at the time of his death) which significantly changed formula 1 from a safety standpoint. That had the effect of narrowing the ability to compete for smaller teams and so many of them just exited the competition.

Schumacher won his titles in the early 2000’s in what was essentially an unbeatable Ferrari ride. Does Schumacher beat Senna from 2000-2004 if they’re both in those prancing ponies? Impossible to know, but I think Senna takes at least 3/5.

Bottom line, I don’t think Schumacher is a more naturally gifted driver than Senna, and I don’t think most people involved in F1 would think he was either. I do think there is a good argument Schumacher is the greatest F1 driver ever — proof is in the results, obviously — but if we are just talking pure natural talent behind the wheel, I think Senna is in a league of his own.

[DaEagles4Life]

 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

On 7/19/2021 at 5:34 PM, TEW said:

What breaks the tie for me is how techno and system dominant today’s F1 is. It’s always been a major factor, obviously, but today it’s basically all down to the engineering teams. Drivers really make only a small difference. 

And I absolutely agree with you to an extent. I just think Hamilton has that raw talent. If you put him in the same car as everyone else he will beat them hands down. I'm not sure he has the best car this year and he's had some struggles but he's still right there in the race. In the wet he's elite. And with the cars all being so good the driver makes that little difference. And Hamilton tends to dominate, has for years. 

[mikemack8]

Watching the video of the crash, it looks more to me like Verstappen turns into Hamilton and wrecks himself.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

On 7/21/2021 at 2:59 PM, mikemack8 said:

Watching the video of the crash, it looks more to me like Verstappen turns into Hamilton and wrecks himself.  

I think it's a tough one. I think if you're in front there then you're upset that you've been put out of the race. If you're behind then you don't see the big deal. 

[mikemack8]

I'll be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about F1 racing, just that my perception was that the dude that wrecked was just as much at fault

[UK_EaglesFan89]

15 hours ago, mikemack8 said:

I'll be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about F1 racing, just that my perception was that the dude that wrecked was just as much at fault

Yeah I'm no expert, I've watched a bit over the years and it comes down to perception. I don't think either think they did wrong but if the roles were reversed they'd be unhappy with the actions of the other. 

[mikemack8]

4 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah I'm no expert, I've watched a bit over the years and it comes down to perception. I don't think either think they did wrong but if the roles were reversed they'd be unhappy with the actions of the other. 

I did read that Hamilton was assessed a 10 second penalty during the race, which apparently didn't hurt him as he still won.  

[DaEagles4Life]

4 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah I'm no expert, I've watched a bit over the years and it comes down to perception. I don't think either think they did wrong but if the roles were reversed they'd be unhappy with the actions of the other. 

I think 10 to 15 years ago Max might have not been so lucky to walk away from that as easily as he did. 

To me Hamilton was in the wrong. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

22 hours ago, mikemack8 said:

I did read that Hamilton was assessed a 10 second penalty during the race, which apparently didn't hurt him as he still won.  

Yeah he did get a penalty. But he fought back. 

[TEW]

On 7/23/2021 at 9:33 AM, DaEagles4Life said:

I think 10 to 15 years ago Max might have not been so lucky to walk away from that as easily as he did. 

To me Hamilton was in the wrong. 

More like 25 years ago, but yeah... in an other era of F1 racing, that would have likely been a fatal crash.

[Bill]

Alonso drove the hell out of that car. Phenomenal performance keeping Hamilton at bay for as many laps as he did. 

[20dawk4life]

Sergio Perez takes podium in Mexico

[DrPhilly]

I never watch F1 but I did today. Nutz. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Absolute joke. They screwed Hamilton big time. He should walk away from the sport. In fact I think he might retire. 

[UK Eagle]

I'm glad Max won; the ending was strange but I think the right man won it for performance over the season.  Mercedes took a gamble that didn't pan out - they did the same in other races and came up trumps. 

The behaviour from Horner and Wolff needs to drastically improve next year.  The Stewards and FIA also got too involved all season, so today turned into par for the course of making the best product for TV over consistency of decision making.

[mikemack8]

There’s too much other crap involved in F1 - not just racing.  It’s stupid