Howie Sucks Drafting? (Not so simple)

[dawkins4prez]

23 minutes ago, wyote said:

There's gonna be some angry TATErs this offseason. Everyone's been wanting to see Howie, Sirianni, Gannon, and Hurts get dumped at the end of the year, but the way things are looking you're only going to get maybe one of those (Gannon).

You better start hoping hard for a late season collapse. 

Gannon is also starting to deliver.  Slay hasn't looked this good in 3 years.  He's making a star out TJ edwards.

[Philthy Jawn]

19 hours ago, bigdog54 said:

I’m not sure that’s fair that everyone brings up those 2 WR that he missed on. I think we can all agree that JJAW is a bust so Metcalf pick is a for sure a major miss. It’s to soon to say Jefferson/Reagor is a miss. I remember up until a few years ago everyone was saying he missed drafting Brandon Graham Instead Of Earl Thomas. No one says that now. Jefferson has taken a couple steps back and i think he sort of has a low ceiling on him. I don’t think he gets much better. I can see Reagor being a Jeremy Maclin style player. I think Reagor has a higher ceiling on him. Not saying he gets there but he has more potential. 

No, I think it's fair to say Reagor is a bust at this point.   Jefferson just put up 169 yards receiving, and Vikings fans feel like they just got the next Randy Moss.  Meanwhile, Devonta Smith has already surpassed Reagor for receiving yards, and the only way the latter seems to get on the field is when Nick calls what feel like forced bubble and screen plays that go nowhere.

I think he gets one more year here, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's cut in the offseason. 
 

 

 

[ggs5008]

17 and 19 were total failures. 

Reagor and Hurts were bad picks. Reagor is a massive bust and Hurts might be a decent QB, but I don't believe the coach, GM or owner believe he is the franchise QB. With that said, you don't spend a 2nd round pick on a backup QB. 

Other picks have been very good the past couple years. 2021 so far looks to be amazing. I really hope Howie spends 2022 draft picks loading up on defense and maybe a tackle to eventually take over for Johnson who is consistently injured and will be 32 for next season. 

[baldeagle]

just because players start for this team, does not mean they will start elsewhere haha 

 

[Ajxxx]

16 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

Taking Reagor over Jefferson was one of the stupidest decisions I've ever seen. I couldn't believe it. I think the Vikings had the pick in, in about 20 second. 

Not just that. They were laughing at it before turning the card in not believing their luck or rather Howie's stupidity. There was no way raegor was rated higher than JJ. Just can't get over it like an obsessed lover lol

[pallidrone]

On 11/21/2021 at 4:14 AM, D-Shiznit said:

Replace Reagor with Jefferson and JJAW with Metcalf and Howie’s drafts look a lot better.

Those two picks are so unforgivable it will take a number of hits to get past that, if even.

The 2021 draft looks like a home run so at least it’s a start.

DK Metcalf would have been a bust here. If you are going to replace JJAW it should have been with Terry McLaurin.

[QBhunter58]

On 11/21/2021 at 4:14 AM, D-Shiznit said:

Replace Reagor with Jefferson and JJAW with Metcalf and Howie’s drafts look a lot better.

Those two picks are so unforgivable it will take a number of hits to get past that, if even.

The 2021 draft looks like a home run so at least it’s a start.

I still would have preferred Humphrey, Ojulari, or Bolton to Dickerson. Other than that, 2021 looks good so far, Howie has always been better with the value picks in the later rounds. High upside guys, players who have fallen, or those with uber productive college careers.

[NOTW]

9 hours ago, Infam said:

That is true. At this point I'd consider both busts. But if you look at the big picture he has more hits than misses, so he is drafting well. Except for 2017, that was a disaster.

My ranking of his draft selections.  Now some of this is who he didn't take - and again that's not hindsight now that we've seen them play.  It's what the consensus was at the time.  Not just Reagor over Jefferson (and a lot of teams passed on Metcalf due to injury I'm not even mad about that, other than JJAW himself being a waste).  There were other examples of really good defensive players available, good RBs when they took Pumphrey, etc.

Some of the picks in the last 2 years also too early to tell, some could get cut and be busts, some could emerge like Dickerson could become a good starter.

Hits (star player or really solid starter) - notice not a single name on defense

1. Lane Johnson 
2. Zach Ertz
3. Dallas Goedert
4. Jordan Mailata
5. Miles Sanders
6. DeVonta Smith
    

JAG (Just a guy) - may even be a starter but easily replaceable

1. Bennie Logan
2. Eric Rowe
3. Jordan Hicks
4. Nelson Agholor
5. Jordan Matthews
6. Beau Allen (I liked him as depth but he never became a starter and left the team)
7. Jalen Mills
8. Carson Wentz - given his downfall and no longer on the team, not a huge hit
9. Isaac Seumalo
10. Halapoulivaati Vaitai
11. Derek Barnett
12. Josh Sweat
13. Avonte Maddox
14. Andre Dillard
15. Quez Watkins
16. Davion Taylor
17. K'Von Wallace
18. Jack Driscoll
19. Jalen Reagor
20. Jalen Hurts (obviously could become a hit, we'll see)
21. Landon Dickerson
22. Milton Williams
23. Zech McPhearson
24. Kenneth Gainwell
     

Misses/busts

1. Matt Barkley
2. Earl Wolff
3. Joe Kruger
4. Jordan Poyer
5. David King
6. Josh Huff
7. Jaylen Watkins
8. Taylor Hart
9. Ed Reynolds
10. JaCorey Shepherd
11. Randall Evans
12. Brian Mihalik
13. Marcus Smith
14. Wendell Smallwood
15. Blake Countess
16. Alex McCalister
17. Joe Walker
18. Sidney Jones
19. Rasul Douglas
20. Mack Hollins
21. Donnel Pumphrey
22. Shelton Gibson
23. Nathan Gerry
24. Elijah Qualls
25. Matt Pryor
26. JJ Arcega-Whiteside
27. Shareef Miller
28. Clayton Thorson
29. John Hightower
30. Shaun Bradley
31. Prince Tega Wanogho
32. Casey Toohill
33. Marlon Tuipulotu
34. Tarron Jackson
35. JaCoby Stevens
36. Patrick Johnson
     

[Infam]

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

My ranking of his draft selections.  Now some of this is who he didn't take - and again that's not hindsight now that we've seen them play.  It's what the consensus was at the time.  Not just Reagor over Jefferson (and a lot of teams passed on Metcalf due to injury I'm not even mad about that, other than JJAW himself being a waste).  There were other examples of really good defensive players available, good RBs when they took Pumphrey, etc.

Some of the picks in the last 2 years also too early to tell, some could get cut and be busts, some could emerge like Dickerson could become a good starter.

I think Smallwood, Pryor, Jackson and especially Bradley aren’t misses. So even then he hit on half which is almost unheard of over such a timespan.

Some of these names are ancient though. I think going before 2016 isn’t really meaningful. He did change.

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, Infam said:

I think Smallwood, Pryor, Jackson and especially Bradley aren’t misses. So even then he hit on half which is almost unheard of over such a timespan.

Some of these names are ancient though. I think going before 2016 isn’t really meaningful. He did change.

Noting progress is fine but I was using his entire history.  There's only a handful of real difference makers, and none on defense.  It's not a good drafting history.

[Kz!]

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Noting progress is fine but I was using his entire history.  There's only a handful of real difference makers, and none on defense.  It's not a good drafting history.

Yeah, if you throw all of his solid picks into a vague "Just a guy" category, then it looks pretty damning. But a lot of those guys were actually good picks especially when you consider some of them have carved out really successful careers despite being picked in the latter rounds of the draft, and some of the guys you have listed as busts have carved out solid careers themselves. Jordan Poyer was a 7th rounder and was a borderline pro bowl player and is still in the league after 8 years. Mack Hollins was a late fourth and is still in the league and playing well for the Dolphins. Jaylen Watkins has had a solid career as well

[NOTW]

4 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Yeah, if you throw all of his solid picks into a vague "Just a guy" category, then it looks pretty damning. But a lot of those guys were actually good picks especially when you consider some of them have carved out really successful careers despite being picked in the latter rounds of the draft, and some of the guys you have listed as busts have carved out solid careers themselves. Jordan Poyer was a 7th rounder and was a borderline pro bowl player and is still in the league after 8 years. Mack Hollins was a late fourth and is still in the league and playing well for the Dolphins. Jaylen Watkins has had a solid career as well

If the player left the Eagles and performed, but sucked here they did nothing for the team and aren't good picks for the Eagles.

I didn't separate into just hits and misses, the JAG category is the middle ground.  Some of those guys are fine, not every players is going to be a star obviously.  But a lot of them are easily replaceable.  The problem is people will defend Howie's drafting based on the JAG type guys, like a mid round pick who is starting only because the starter got hurt.  That's a decent depth pick and you need that.  But you need more hits and star players.  Howie has only been able to do that on offense, with a handful and with high picks where it was obvious who to take.  When he picks later in the round he picks guys like Reagor and Marcus Smith.

And again, he has not drafted a star player on defense ever.

[Infam]

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

If the player left the Eagles and performed, but sucked here they did nothing for the team and aren't good picks for the Eagles.

I didn't separate into just hits and misses, the JAG category is the middle ground.  Some of those guys are fine, not every players is going to be a star obviously.  But a lot of them are easily replaceable.  The problem is people will defend Howie's drafting based on the JAG type guys, like a mid round pick who is starting only because the starter got hurt.  That's a decent depth pick and you need that.  But you need more hits and star players.  Howie has only been able to do that on offense, with a handful and with high picks where it was obvious who to take.  When he picks later in the round he picks guys like Reagor and Marcus Smith.

And again, he has not drafted a star player on defense ever.

Now do that for all teams in the NFL.

Be prepared to see Roseman in the top10 with draft success.

[NOTW]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:38 PM, Infam said:

Now do that for all teams in the NFL.

Be prepared to see Roseman in the top10 with draft success.

Others have done that and ranked the Eagles among the worst drafting teams in the league. 

NY Post grading team drafts the last 5 years - Eagles toward bottom of the list at 30.  The best pick and only Pro Bowl player declined dramatically after that Pro Bowl year and was traded after having an awful year.

Quote

 

Pro Bowlers: 1

Best Pick: Carson Wentz (2016, 1st)

Worst Pick: Sidney Jones (2017, 2nd)

If you’re trying to figure out why the Eagles have fallen apart since winning the Super Bowl, look at their drafts. They have done a poor job landing impact players. Wentz had some good years before fizzling out in Philadelphia, so I’ll still give him the nod as their best pick, but that tells you a lot.

 

Football Outsiders ranked Howie's drafting among the leagues worst most of his years, 2016 was higher thanks to Wentz who's no longer here.

Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com ranks Howie's drafting since 2015 as 21st

This guy at NBCSportsEdge ranks him 16 and on the downward, this ranking includes more than drafting and Wentz and the trade to get him weighed into it.

@vaff

[Infam]

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Others have done that and ranked the Eagles among the worst drafting teams in the league. 

NY Post grading team drafts the last 5 years - Eagles toward bottom of the list at 30.

Football Outsiders ranked Howie's drafting among the leagues worst most of his years, 2016 was higher thanks to Wentz who's no longer here.

Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com ranks Howie's drafting since 2015 as 21st

This guy at NBCSportsEdge ranks him 16 and on the downward, this ranking includes more than drafting

Sigh, ok sure. At least now I know where the obsession with pro-bowlers is coming from. And weighted with success, did they? That is some lazy-ass rating right there..

[Kz!]

42 minutes ago, NOTW said:

If the player left the Eagles and performed, but sucked here they did nothing for the team and aren't good picks for the Eagles.

I didn't separate into just hits and misses, the JAG category is the middle ground.  Some of those guys are fine, not every players is going to be a star obviously.  But a lot of them are easily replaceable.  The problem is people will defend Howie's drafting based on the JAG type guys, like a mid round pick who is starting only because the starter got hurt.  That's a decent depth pick and you need that.  But you need more hits and star players.  Howie has only been able to do that on offense, with a handful and with high picks where it was obvious who to take.  When he picks later in the round he picks guys like Reagor and Marcus Smith.

And again, he has not drafted a star player on defense ever.

Yeah, but there's a crazy huge variance in your JAG category. Drafting a guy like Quez Watkins in the 6th shouldn't fall in the same category as getting a guy like Reagor in the 1st. Finding a potentially really good #3 WR in the sixth is a draft success story. Getting a barely serviceable starter in the first is not. Snagging a good DE like Sweat is an example of a really good fourth round pick. Ditto getting a good starting guard like Driscoll.

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, Kz! said:

Yeah, but there's a crazy huge variance in your JAG category. Drafting a guy like Quez Watkins in the 6th shouldn't fall in the same category as getting a guy like Reagor in the 1st. Finding a potentially really good #3 WR in the sixth is a draft success story. Getting a barely serviceable starter in the first is not. Snagging a good DE like Sweat is an example of a really good fourth round pick. Ditto getting a good starting guard like Driscoll.

I just put players in categories apart from draft position.  If we want to do it by draft position, there would be rearranging both up and down for sure.  After they're in the league, what matters is can they play.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

On 11/21/2021 at 3:16 AM, bigdog54 said:

2019

Not a good draft but they did get 

*. Miles Sanders a starting RB and a damn good one at that 

Meh he's good, I'm not sure I'd say he's a damn good one. 

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, Infam said:

Sigh, ok sure. At least now I know where the obsession with pro-bowlers is coming from. And weighted with success, did they? That is some lazy-ass rating right there..

You can sigh at facts that you don't like all you want.  You keep suggesting Howie is better than the fans think and I provided evidence from national sources not just local beat writers or fans.  

[Infam]

6 minutes ago, NOTW said:

You can sigh at facts that you don't like all you want.  You keep suggesting Howie is better than the fans think and I provided evidence from national sources not just local beat writers or fans.  

Evidence my ass. I don‘t agree with their method one bit. But alright, you are free to believe whom you want.

[Swimm]

You can't tell me the Eagles are great at drafting when they have been trending downwards since the Superbowl. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

On 11/21/2021 at 5:40 PM, bigdog54 said:

I’m not sure that’s fair that everyone brings up those 2 WR that he missed on. I think we can all agree that JJAW is a bust so Metcalf pick is a for sure a major miss. It’s to soon to say Jefferson/Reagor is a miss. I remember up until a few years ago everyone was saying he missed drafting Brandon Graham Instead Of Earl Thomas. No one says that now. Jefferson has taken a couple steps back and i think he sort of has a low ceiling on him. I don’t think he gets much better. I can see Reagor being a Jeremy Maclin style player. I think Reagor has a higher ceiling on him. Not saying he gets there but he has more potential. 
 

 

Come on now, if you think it's too soon to say that Howie picked the wrong receiver out of Jefferson and Reagor why the hell would I read the rest of your opinions?

You can see Reagor being a Jeremy Maclin style player?  Maclin had 773 yards and 4TDs his first year, with a 100 yard game in his third start and that's playing WR2.  Reagor has 566 yards and 3 TD's and has only broken 50 yards 3 times for his 22 game career to date, Maclin is probably still as good a receiver as Reagor now and he retired the year we won the Superbowl.  Higher ceiling my ass.

Right now I'd be prepared to bet cash money that on his current trajectory Reagor doesn't beat Maclin's best single season receiving yards and TD's total (1318y and 10TD's) for his entire career.

[D-Shiznit]

Reagor is an absolute no doubt about it Marcus Smith III and Danny Watkins level bust.

Greg Ward would be a categorical upgrade over him in the starting lineup.

There is no excusing that pick, even if Jefferson wasn't a superstar WR.

[Philthy Jawn]

17 hours ago, NOTW said:

And again, he has not drafted a star player on defense ever.

Graham, Cox, and Kendricks.

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, Philthy Jawn said:

Graham, Cox, and Kendricks.

He didn't draft Graham or Cox, and Kendricks had a mixed career where one year fans loved him the next hated him and called him a bum.