Inquirer: Super Bowl or bust for Hurts, Eagles

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

Hurts has a total QBR of 41.15

Minshew has a total QBR of 49.7

How can this be.  QBR takes rushing into account, and I heard Hurts rushing makes him a borderline top 10 QB.

[Swoop]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

How can this be.  QBR takes rushing into account, and I heard Hurts rushing makes him a borderline top 10 QB.

Crazy isn't it? 

What's even more crazy are the people that argue that a dual threat automatically means that the running game is vastly improved because the QB could tuck it and run.

[Mike030270]

8 hours ago, Nivraga said:

I'm not sure what you're asking. But if I were to guess at your inquiry then my answer would be - my use of "expect" is probably not exactly as what you are reading. 

So I think most of us (though some reluctantly / begrudgingly) agree that Hurts has all the intangibles you want in a leader / QB. What he lacks is an NFL arm. Where most of us really disagree is on whether the cause of his deficiency is correctable or not. I think his lack of arm is mostly about mechanics. I think it's correctable. The question is time ... there in lies the rub.

Due in part to a lack of attractive alternatives at the moment, I'm willing to give Hurts and his intangibles this off season and in season to show significant improvement (obviously its not up to me but I'm in favor of it)  that expectation is more or less a demand. For me (as a fan with very little influence on the subject) to endorse Hurts as the QB beyond this season, I need to see that improvement this year. Hurts might not ever be more than he is right now. Or it might take 5 years to get to the "franchise level". I'm not waiting 5 years. The Eagles don't owe Hurts anything. If there was a real viable alternative (and don't give me Minshew) I would be advocating that - but considering their options, the Eagles owe it to themselves to find out what he is. 

I just want to add - this isn't just "eh, the Eagles don't have a better option so lets give Hurts another year." This is IMO, ALL things considered, finding out about Hurts is the Eagles best option and in their best interest. 

I bolded what I was asking why. I asked why do you think he's going to make a significant jump this upcoming season. They got him a specific QB coach just for him and he barely improved. He's been around coaching all his life and was in a good program that was surrounded by very talented receivers in college

So what if he can run. QBs that run first haven't won a Lombardi. Lamar may have nice stats in the regular season but I think he's only won one game in the playoffs

He exercises and the team likes him. That great and all but it's not like that's difficult to find in a QB. What team right now hates or dislikes their QB?

I think they do have better options. Both Minshew and even Strong are shown to be better passers

[EazyEaglez]

SB or bust? Can we win a playoff game at least? 

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

SB or bust? Can we win a playoff game at least? 

That's the next realistic goal:  win the division and win a playoff game.

People forget how hard it is to win a SB, that we've had teams over the years that people were very hyped up on winning and a couple chances where they should have.  If this team looks good this year and wins a playoff game or 2 then the following season you definitely put SB contention expectations but you also need to see how all these changes go, injuries, coaching, etc.  We've seen free agents and trades not work out, and certainly draft picks are just prospects on paper until they actually play.

[EazyEaglez]

20 minutes ago, NOTW said:

That's the next realistic goal:  win the division and win a playoff game.

People forget how hard it is to win a SB, that we've had teams over the years that people were very hyped up on winning and a couple chances where they should have.  If this team looks good this year and wins a playoff game or 2 then the following season you definitely put SB contention expectations but you also need to see how all these changes go, injuries, coaching, etc.  We've seen free agents and trades not work out, and certainly draft picks are just prospects on paper until they actually play.

Do I think they’re an improved football team? Yes I do, but I think it’s a big jump to go from making the playoffs to winning the Super Bowl. Is it possible? Well anything is possible considering what happened in 2017, but that certainly shouldn’t be the expectation. Not this pending season anyway. I’m going to attempt to ride this season out game by game and not try and think of much more than that for as long as I can. Honestly when people start writing this stuff it makes me think of idiots from the Cowboys media and fan base. 

[flyerdog]

On 5/20/2022 at 9:37 PM, Hawkeye said:

Perfect fit for both Nick and the Colts 

now picture this...Wentz is traded already...
Matt Ryan gets injured..Foles leads the team to the post season and a SB victory...I think Wentz would physically implode if that actually happened 

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

That's the next realistic goal:  win the division and win a playoff game.

People forget how hard it is to win a SB, that we've had teams over the years that people were very hyped up on winning and a couple chances where they should have.  If this team looks good this year and wins a playoff game or 2 then the following season you definitely put SB contention expectations but you also need to see how all these changes go, injuries, coaching, etc.  We've seen free agents and trades not work out, and certainly draft picks are just prospects on paper until they actually play.

 

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Do I think they’re an improved football team? Yes I do, but I think it’s a big jump to go from making the playoffs to winning the Super Bowl. Is it possible? Well anything is possible considering what happened in 2017, but that certainly shouldn’t be the expectation. Not this pending season anyway. I’m going to attempt to ride this season out game by game and not try and think of much more than that for as long as I can. Honestly when people start writing this stuff it makes me think of idiots from the Cowboys media and fan base. 

What about the following:

Scenario A - Eagles get to/win the Super Bowl. Defense turns into a top 5 unit and Eagles get hot at the right time and ride the D and a strong running game to the Super Bowl. Hurts doesn't really progress but does enough with his legs and his arms (with the help of Smith, Brown and Goedert) to get the job done. It becomes clear that Hurts can win with elite talent, but if the Eagles pay him, they won't be able to maintain the necessary talent around him.

Scenario B - the lines are plagued by injuries. The D goes backwards and now can't stop Daniel Jones or Wentz. The Eagles can't run the ball. But Hurts steps up, improves his reading, decision making and accuracy and throws for 4000 plus yards 30 TDs and 8 picks. Eagles win only 8 games and miss the playoffs. Gannon is sacked after season.

 

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Do I think they’re an improved football team? Yes I do, but I think it’s a big jump to go from making the playoffs to winning the Super Bowl. Is it possible? Well anything is possible considering what happened in 2017, but that certainly shouldn’t be the expectation. Not this pending season anyway. I’m going to attempt to ride this season out game by game and not try and think of much more than that for as long as I can. Honestly when people start writing this stuff it makes me think of idiots from the Cowboys media and fan base. 

It's 1 reporter who wrote an article right?  

Media want clicks and ratings so they're going to go to one extreme or the other.  They're not going to get attention with a safe, realistic, nuanced and balanced view of the team.  They're going to generate attention by over hyping to get people to go "no way you're crazy" or be overly negative to get people to go "no way you're crazy."

Fans can choose how to respond in either situation, but usually the masses give them what they want.

[Mike030270]

56 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

What about the following:

Scenario A - Eagles get to/win the Super Bowl. Defense turns into a top 5 unit and Eagles get hot at the right time and ride the D and a strong running game to the Super Bowl. Hurts doesn't really progress but does enough with his legs and his arms (with the help of Smith, Brown and Goedert) to get the job done. It becomes clear that Hurts can win with elite talent, but if the Eagles pay him, they won't be able to maintain the necessary talent around him.

Scenario B - the lines are plagued by injuries. The D goes backwards and now can't stop Daniel Jones or Wentz. The Eagles can't run the ball. But Hurts steps up, improves his reading, decision making and accuracy and throws for 4000 plus yards 30 TDs and 8 picks. Eagles win only 8 games and miss the playoffs. Gannon is sacked after season.

 

Scenario B would be better for the future IMO

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

What about the following:

Scenario A - Eagles get to/win the Super Bowl. Defense turns into a top 5 unit and Eagles get hot at the right time and ride the D and a strong running game to the Super Bowl. Hurts doesn't really progress but does enough with his legs and his arms (with the help of Smith, Brown and Goedert) to get the job done. It becomes clear that Hurts can win with elite talent, but if the Eagles pay him, they won't be able to maintain the necessary talent around him.

Scenario B - the lines are plagued by injuries. The D goes backwards and now can't stop Daniel Jones or Wentz. The Eagles can't run the ball. But Hurts steps up, improves his reading, decision making and accuracy and throws for 4000 plus yards 30 TDs and 8 picks. Eagles win only 8 games and miss the playoffs. Gannon is sacked after season.

 

Scenario A.  We get a title, and if Hurts can only win with elite talent, they will replace him.

[olsilverhair]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

SB or bust? Can we win a playoff game at least? 

the question is moot

[Vileborg]

29 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Scenario A.  We get a title, and if Hurts can only win with elite talent, they will replace him.

This 1000%. It took us 60 years to get the last one. I don't have 60 years to wait for another one.

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

Scenario B would be better for the future IMO

 

56 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Scenario A.  We get a title, and if Hurts can only win with elite talent, they will replace him.

Well it wasn’t a choice, more just two scenarios that don’t fit with his narrative. 

If we are choosing though I’d probably take Scenario A if it was winning it all and not just getting there. 

But yeah B would set us up well for the future and mean we could use 2 firsts on the team rather than a QB.

 

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

What about the following:

Scenario A - Eagles get to/win the Super Bowl. Defense turns into a top 5 unit and Eagles get hot at the right time and ride the D and a strong running game to the Super Bowl. Hurts doesn't really progress but does enough with his legs and his arms (with the help of Smith, Brown and Goedert) to get the job done. It becomes clear that Hurts can win with elite talent, but if the Eagles pay him, they won't be able to maintain the necessary talent around him.

Scenario B - the lines are plagued by injuries. The D goes backwards and now can't stop Daniel Jones or Wentz. The Eagles can't run the ball. But Hurts steps up, improves his reading, decision making and accuracy and throws for 4000 plus yards 30 TDs and 8 picks. Eagles win only 8 games and miss the playoffs. Gannon is sacked after season.

 

I’ll take A. I’m not into the "great quarterback is a must” mentality when it comes to winning so if the team develops into a top team and Hurts doesn’t improve then go get another lower cost guy. When you have these big money quarterbacks it becomes much harder for teams to keep the talent around them so whoever they choose better be the right guy who can take the team on his back and win games. I’ll take the SB winning level team over the elite level quarterback. 

[Nivraga]

9 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

I bolded what I was asking why. I asked why do you think he's going to make a significant jump this upcoming season. They got him a specific QB coach just for him and he barely improved. He's been around coaching all his life and was in a good program that was surrounded by very talented receivers in college

So what if he can run. QBs that run first haven't won a Lombardi. Lamar may have nice stats in the regular season but I think he's only won one game in the playoffs

He exercises and the team likes him. That great and all but it's not like that's difficult to find in a QB. What team right now hates or dislikes their QB?

I think they do have better options. Both Minshew and even Strong are shown to be better passers

We disagree. And it appears the Eagles do too. Time will tell. 

[JohnB]

On 5/20/2022 at 6:30 AM, nipples said:

Why not? Seriously. If you had asked me a few months ago I’d have agreed. But they’ve really made some major upgrades since then. 
 

Ignore QB for a minute, because that’s the point of the article. 
 

On offense, I don’t see a glaring weakness. Two legit starting WR plus Quez is fine as a slot. Line is legit. Goedert IMO is a top 5 TE. Sanders is a good RB. Pascal is solid depth at WR as well. 
 

On defense, the front 7 looks really, really good. The CB duo now that they signed Bradberry should be one of the better ones in the league, plus Maddox looked solid covering the slot last year. 
 

The only spot I would call a major glaring weakness is safety. Harris is fine… not particularly good, but not a total scrub. The second safety position is the definite biggest weakness. 
 

So… I don’t see any reason this roster couldn’t be a legitimate contender… other than the QB position. Which is the point of the article. Now, I think they took it a tad too far, because Hurts doesn’t have to get them to a SB to prove himself. But he does need to win at least a playoff game and look good as a passer while doing it. I’m skeptical of that happening, but the roster around him is absolutely capable of a deep playoff run IMO. 

while you make a ton of great points, you're not taking one major thing into consideration, and that's injuries. They happen. Sometimes it's that big FA signing, like it was Owens back in the day, or sometimes it's your star quarterback down the stretch (Wentz). Sometimes, it's everyone. We had a ton of injuries the year we won the Super Bowl, but we also had massive depth, and Pedersen did a phenomenal job getting 53 guys to play as ONE team. 

[pallidrone]

14 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

I bolded what I was asking why. I asked why do you think he's going to make a significant jump this upcoming season. They got him a specific QB coach just for him and he barely improved. He's been around coaching all his life and was in a good program that was surrounded by very talented receivers in college

So what if he can run. QBs that run first haven't won a Lombardi. Lamar may have nice stats in the regular season but I think he's only won one game in the playoffs

He exercises and the team likes him. That great and all but it's not like that's difficult to find in a QB. What team right now hates or dislikes their QB?

I think they do have better options. Both Minshew and even Strong are shown to be better passers

QBs that throw to a RB never won a Super Bowl until they did. Teams that passed more than run the ball never won a Super Bowl until they did. A QB taken in the 6th round of the draft never won a Super Bowl until he did.

Just because something has not happened before does not mean it will never happen.

[ManchesterEagle]

2 hours ago, pallidrone said:

QBs that throw to a RB never won a Super Bowl until they did. Teams that passed more than run the ball never won a Super Bowl until they did. A QB taken in the 6th round of the draft never won a Super Bowl until he did.

Just because something has not happened before does not mean it will never happen.

And it has anyway. Russell Wilson was a running QB for his first 2/3 years including the Super Bowl year 

[Swoop]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

And it has anyway. Russell Wilson was a running QB for his first 2/3 years including the Super Bowl year 

Was he really, though? Or was he more of a QB that could run as a wrinkle? In his first 32 starts (his rookie season and the entire season leading up to their SB run) he ran for 1,028 yards on 190 attempts. He had 5 TDs. 

By comparison Hurts has run for 1,056 yards on 185 attempts as a starter. He has 13 TDs and has only started 19 games. In barely over a single seasons worth of starts he has already run the ball more than Wilson did through his first two seasons combined. 

Additionally, Wilson ran a whopping 11 times over the course of three games on their way to winning the Super Bowl. 

One runs because he needs to. The other runs because he can. 

There's a distinct difference.

[nipples]

9 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Ignore the most important position in all of sports, for a minute.   😂 

You’re missing the point. Take the QB out of the equation, and there is no reason this roster can’t be a contender. Which means what? That if they aren’t, then it’s almost definitely the QB that is the problem. 

[olsilverhair]

9 hours ago, Nivraga said:

We disagree. And it appears the Eagles do too. Time will tell. 

its ok to be wrong

[nipples]

26 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

QB is the issue.  But so is HC and DC.   

That’s where we disagree. On HC at least. I think Sirianna is fine. Gannon needs to be better this year, we’ll find out if his conservative coaching was because of a lack of personnel or not. He has no excuses this year. 

[ThinkGreen]

All these new players are unlikely to all pan out. SB or bust is a ridiculous demand. A deep playoff run would be more reasonable. 

[Hawkeye]

24 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

A playoff win with competent QB play would be a huge win.  Anything more is a ridiculous demand.  I'd say Dream Team, but this is a team built with more youth and potential than the DT.  Just don't have the QB or the HC.  

The Eagles themselves expect big things.  This isn't some fanboy wish list or a sportswriter floating a hot take - it's the organizational viewpoint. They feed this. And we all love to complain but I think they're getting it right.

Even though the EMB has declared Hurts a bust, the Eagles disagree and have done everything possible to put him in a position to succeed.  They seem sold on this kid. We'll see, but if they're wrong, they have the draft capital to do whatever they want next year in the draft, free agency or via trade.  And next year projects to be a good time to go quarterback shopping. They've built to this over the past several years. This is their plan playing out. 

Trust the proce....uh, forget that part.