February 15, 20241 yr 59 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: So to recap: a 50% increase in firearm related deaths doesn't look that bad if you boil it down to pure "total % chance of being killed by a gun between 2 specific years" despite being pretty much on lar with car accident deaths per capital at this point , we must ignore any relative statistics to other countries because the US is such a special snowflake of a county that it's inevitable that there would be a several fold relative gun death rate no matter what we do (socioeconomics, heterogenocity, trust me bro), suicides shouldn't count towards gun deaths because "anti gunners" correctly point but that access to firearms increases that chance of successful suicides and also Korea is super depressed, the US is the only place where gang violence occurs and is incorporated into gun death statistics so they don't totally count, and you still conflate the idea of something being less likely than something else with the term "statistical anomaly". That was a lot of effort to put into still being wrong. I'm impressed. Well done. You wrote an awful lot when you could have just typed, "I didn’t look at the data, and if I did I would have no idea what I’m looking at.”
February 15, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, Bill said: No, what deserves to be mocked is taking a country as complex as the US, both with its government and populace, and comparing it to another western country that is the size of a few states and does not have the same socio economic issues that the US has. The worsening firearm homicide rate you’re talking about? It went from .00004 per capita in 1968 to .00006 per capita in 2021, even with 2021 being a record year, and that high coming down. We saw a drop in firearm homicide rates in the early 90s that persisted to the mid 2010s, thanks largely to the crime bill. The phenomenon of active shooters started in the 80s, and took off in the late 90s, in spite of a lower overall firearm homicide rate during the late 90s. As a note, in 1993 the per capita firearm homicide rate was .00007. So there goes your "increased rates” argument right out the window. Also, while we are on it, more murders happen with knives than they do by rifles of any type, so the whole assault weapon argument in an active shooter goes away because with an active shooter using an assault weapon you’re looking at a statistical anomaly wrapped in a statistical anomaly. In order to make the statistics look larger, a few years ago anti-gunners started lumping in large gang related shootings in with active shootings, even though from a criminological standpoint they’re two different types of violent offenses. And even then with the peak of the overall number of firearm homicides in 2021 it’s still on par with 1993 from a statistical standpoint. And then there’s the whole lumping in of all firearm related deaths to pump the numbers up, even though most of those numbers are due to suicides. And suicides are a combination of factors ranging from cultural to general mental health. South Korea has no guns, yet per capita their suicide rate dwarfs the US. The main issue is that the bill is about 30 years old, and from the standpoint of the criminal justice system that’s now a generation ago. So the reforms that were made have now gone by the wayside because there’s a new generation of judges, prosecutors, cops, and politicians. Theres 330 million people living heterogeneously in the most complex country the planet has ever seen. We’re going to have issues other countries don’t. You want to make a big dent in firearm violence? Start locking criminals up like we did in the 90s. Until then, it won’t change, even if you "ban” them. You wrote an awful lot to simply say you spin the "data” to suit your argument. Funny how they works both ways.
February 15, 20241 yr Yeah I don't understand why suicides should be thrown out entirely (especially for kids). We seem to be almost in unanimous agreement that people with mental health issues shouldn't have easy access to firearms yet we're willing to pretend people who attempt suicide are a model of picture perfect mental health? Seems disingenuous.
February 15, 20241 yr 8 hours ago, Dave Moss said: The United States doesn’t restrict who can get a gun. Guns are cheap and easy to get. The gun lobby is powerful enough in the U.S. to stop the issue of mass shootings from being addressed. it’s not that complex of an issue Where are you getting them that they're cheap?
February 15, 20241 yr 12 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: Where are you getting them that they're cheap? $500 or $600 is cheap. That’s how much I would pay for a kid’s bike
February 15, 20241 yr At this point, and really before this latest national level incident, I think it would be wise for the extreme pro gun nutters to accept some more stringent background checks. The pendulum is going to swing, being unwilling to make any concessions at all will only cause the pendulum to swing further than you want it to. I’m saying this as a gun owner who would like to purchase again in the future.
February 15, 20241 yr 15 hours ago, Bill said: Literally only have a shotgun and my duty pistols from when I was on the job. Haven’t shot them or carried a gun in years. Also most of the "mass shootings” are gang and drug related shootings. So, one a day in a heterogeneous country that spans an entire continent and has 330 million people? Yeah, in statistics that’s an anomaly. Try again. Over 130,000 people in the U.S were shot last year. Not a statistical anomaly.
February 15, 20241 yr 14 hours ago, Mike030270 said: Just tell their parents they are statistical anomalies. That will help.
February 15, 20241 yr 13 hours ago, Bill said: Boy, you guys love data when MAGAts are being stupid about a pandemic and a vaccine. Not so much about crime, though. The stupid... it burns.
February 15, 20241 yr 15 hours ago, Arthur Jackson said: (@Shepard Wong?) I recognize it from one of the Short Circuit movies but I don't remember the context at all. Getting old sucks.
February 15, 20241 yr https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kansas-city-chiefs-parade-shooting-victim-identified-lisa-lopez-galvan-radio-station/
February 15, 20241 yr 7 hours ago, Bill said: You wrote an awful lot when you could have just typed, "I didn’t look at the data, and if I did I would have no idea what I’m looking at.” Actually he took a lot of time and effort into pointing out that your post was completely retarded without actually saying that it was. He even did it without pointing out how badly you embarrassed yourself. He's a much nicer and more patient person than I am.
February 15, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: Yeah I don't understand why suicides should be thrown out entirely (especially for kids). We seem to be almost in unanimous agreement that people with mental health issues shouldn't have easy access to firearms yet we're willing to pretend people who attempt suicide are a model of picture perfect mental health? Seems disingenuous. A lot of these nuts want to kill themselves and decide why not take a bunch of other people with them. Suicide is absolutely a factor in this. While many suicides don't kill others first (obviously), we have a horrifying combination of an extreme nation wide mental health crises and easy access to guns capable of killing a lot of people in a very short amount of time.
February 15, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, Gannan said: A lot of these nuts want to kill themselves and decide why not take a bunch of other people with them. Suicide is absolutely a factor in this. While many suicides don't kill others first (obviously), we have a horrifying combination of an extreme nation wide mental health crises and easy access to guns capable of killing a lot of people in a very short amount of time. Exactly, if people are mentally ill enough to take their own life or harm themselves, it's perfectly plausible a large enough segment of them will also consider harming others in the process. The most dangerous person is someone with nothing to lose.
February 15, 20241 yr The KC Shooting suspect. https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/kansas-city-shooting-moment-suspected-339857 Kansas City shooting: Moment suspected killer arrested after Chiefs parade carnage
February 15, 20241 yr 11 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: The KC Shooting suspect. https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/kansas-city-shooting-moment-suspected-339857 Kansas City shooting: Moment suspected killer arrested after Chiefs parade carnage Was not expecting someone this age.
February 15, 20241 yr The vast majority of gun violence could be solved very easily, but liberals literally vote against it every election cycle. Then after every mass shooting they feign indignation if someone doesn't agree with their ideas about gun control. It's a pretty hilarious cycle to watch. I hope @Bill learned a lesson that it's a waste of time to try to take a nuanced look at the subject with actual data. Best thing to do is just point and laugh and say, nah I'm not getting rid of my guns because some violent black felon who has been arrested and released 50 times predictably shot a bunch of people. Get effed.
February 15, 20241 yr 34 minutes ago, Kz! said: The vast majority of gun violence could be solved very easily, but liberals literally vote against it every election cycle. Then after every mass shooting they feign indignation if someone doesn't agree with their ideas about gun control. It's a pretty hilarious cycle to watch. I hope @Bill learned a lesson that it's a waste of time to try to take a nuanced look at the subject with actual data. Best thing to do is just point and laugh and say, nah I'm not getting rid of my guns because some violent black felon who has been arrested and released 50 times predictably shot a bunch of people. Get effed. The funny thing is that no one mentioned anything about gun control, simply that there are a lot of shootings going on. Stating the obvious made you and Bill "rheeeeeeeeee" like loons.
February 15, 20241 yr Sounds like it was gang violence. Anyone who honestly wants to tackle the problem of mass shootings would start with trying to tackle the main source, gang violence. They ignore gang violence though which only proves that stopping mass shootings is not their real goal, subjugating their fellow citizens is.
February 15, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, Gannan said: The funny thing is that no one mentioned anything about gun control, simply that there are a lot of shootings going on. Stating the obvious made you and Bill "rheeeeeeeeee" like loons. The mass shooting definition(s) are problematic. Two criminals in a gun fight isn't necessarily what we would think of as a "mass shooting" even if others are unintentionally killed, and those can be erroneously added in. The better data category to use is probably "active shooter" incidents, which while much less than 1 per day, is still way too high. 61 of them in 2021 per the FBI. In the end, we as a nation must decide if the blame rests in the tool or the hand that wields it. Personally, as a strong supporter of the 2A, I blame the hand that wields it, and even so, I am in favor of prohibiting certain citizens/persons from purchasing/transferring/owning firearms. The mentally ill with a formal diagnosis, felons, non-citizens (legal immigrants on a visa & of course illegal immigrants), and those with a history of criminal violence is a good place to start and they should be on a prohibited list. They may not purchase, own, or have transferred to them any firearm. It won't stop all criminals from obtaining forearms but it will curtail some and at least make it more difficult for them to get one. IMO, it's the only list the federal government should be permitted to create. Banning all firearms? No, they have no such power, and are specifically prohibited from having any such power in perpetuity. Those old wig wearing weirdos were pretty smart.
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