brkmsn Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, downundermike said: It was not an opinion argument, it was a fact argument. jsb stated as fact that his stretch had a higher QB rating, that is false. He then tried to argue how NFL QB rating is calculated, which your post says he was wrong. Clearly, I calculate the stats the same way you do, but isn't the real underlying opinion about which 3-game stretch was better? I'm not saying that's what this thread is about, I'm just asking because this thread, it appears, was based on an earlier argument.
brkmsn Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said: He used a specific NFL stat that has a formula. That's not an opinion at that point, but math. His math was wrong For clarity... Once again, that's not the "opinion" I was referring to.
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, brkmsn said: Clearly, I calculate the stats the same way you do, but isn't the real underlying opinion about which 3-game stretch was better? I'm not saying that's what this thread is about, I'm just asking because this thread, it appears, was based on an earlier argument. One stretch was against the NYG and WAS, one was against Det, Den and LAC. Eagles scored more points in my stretch against much better teams.
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, brkmsn said: For clarity... Once again, that's not the "opinion" I was referring to. This entire thread is not about opinion, this is a debate about the facts and how they are calculated. After I proved this wrong, this is the post that started it, he then tries to change how the facts are calculated. This is not an opinion, this is a statement of fact that is 100% incorrect.
brkmsn Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: One stretch was against the NYG and WAS, one was against Det, Den and LAC. Eagles scored more points in my stretch against much better teams. IMO, the Denver game was the turning point in my overall optimism for Hurts.
jsb235 Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, downundermike said: One stretch was against the NYG and WAS, one was against Det, Den and LAC. Eagles scored more points in my stretch against much better teams. QB play in Mike's stretch - 36 completions, 54 attempts, 443 yards, 3 TDs, one INT. QB play in last three games - 54 completions, 81 attempts, 709 yards, three TDs, one INT. So while three-tenthsmike was right by virtue of a rounding error, the qb passing game in the last three games was clearly better. Unless completing as many passes in one stretch as you attempt in another for more than 200 more yards is not a measure of good qb play. He also had a much higher ypa.
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, jsb235 said: QB play in Mike's stretch - 36 completions, 54 attempts, 443 yards, 3 TDs, one INT. QB play in last three games - 54 completions, 81 attempts, 709 yards, three TDs, one INT. So while three-tenthsmike was right by virtue of a rounding error, the qb passing game in the last three games was clearly better. Unless completing as many passes in one stretch as you attempt in another for more than 200 fewer yards is a measure of good qb play. It is not a rounding error, proven as fact. Quit clinging to this intellectually dishonest narrative. You don’t have to like it, but total yards are not a factor in QB rating, so you are wrong. Taking the average of adding the QB ratings together is also wrong. I have not won by 3/10ths, I have won by more that a full point. And it really sucks that @brkmsn has now said you are wrong hai g your method to calculate QB rating, he and I are 100% at odds all the time here, but at least he is man enough to admit that I am 100% correct in this instance. On top of it, looking at your post that started it, you said, using QB rating as your reference, "by far the best 3 game stretch of the season” it wasn’t by far, it wasn’t closely, it wasn’t even his best 3 game stretch.
Shalodeep Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, jsb235 said: QB play in Mike's stretch - 36 completions, 54 attempts, 443 yards, 3 TDs, one INT. QB play in last three games - 54 completions, 81 attempts, 709 yards, three TDs, one INT. So while three-tenthsmike was right by virtue of a rounding error, the qb passing game in the last three games was clearly better. Unless completing as many passes in one stretch as you attempt in another for more than 200 more yards is not a measure of good qb play. He also had a much higher ypa. So what you are trying to say is....that your argument of using the QB rating isn't a good stat to use vs the original point I posted of 10 minutes ago, downundermike said: I'll take my victory lap now
jsb235 Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, downundermike said: On top of it, looking at your post that started it, you said, using QB rating as your reference, "by far the best 3 game stretch of the season” it wasn’t by far, it wasn’t closely, it wasn’t even his best 3 game stretch. It wasn't closely? Your best argument is that he was less than one percent better in your stretch than my stretch. Yes, it was a bad take by me that his three-game stretch at the end was his best in terms of qb rating. But it was virtually a tie between the two, well within rounding errors. Plus, he was clearly a better passer in the last three games. That is not disputable.
brkmsn Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, downundermike said: This entire thread is not about opinion, this is a debate about the facts and how they are calculated. After I proved this wrong, this is the post that started it, he then tries to change how the facts are calculated. This is not an opinion, this is a statement of fact that is 100% incorrect. I'll say it again as clear as I possibly can. I understand what this thread is about. It's about how stats are compiled over a stretch. I agree with you, according to my earlier statement. The opinion, that I am referring to, happened in a different thread and was referenced in this one. That opinion is about which 3-game stretch was more impressive. That opinion and the argument here about which way to calculate QB rating over a stretch of games are two different things. Even though I agree with you on the stat computation, and on which 3 game stretch was better, the latter wouldn't entirely be because of QB rating or stats. For example if you asked people what Wentz' best 4 game stretch was as an Eagle, most would take 4 games from 2017 where he was statistically better. I, however, would take December of 2019 when our backs were to the wall and he carried the offense into the playoffs. Mine is just an opinion, and at this point, I don't have any interest in debating that in this thread.
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, jsb235 said: It wasn't closely? Your best argument is that he was less than one percent better in your stretch than my stretch. Yes, it was a bad take by me that his three-game stretch at the end was his best in terms of qb rating. But it was virtually a tie between the two, well within rounding errors. Plus, he was clearly a better passer in the last three games. That is not disputable. Wouldn’t 3 TD’s in 54 attempts be massively better than 3 TD’s in 81 attempts ??
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, brkmsn said: 'll say it again as clear as I possibly can. I understand what this thread is about. It's about how stats are compiled over a stretch. I agree with you, according to my earlier statement. The opinion, that I am referring to, happened in a different thread and was referenced in this one. That opinion is about which 3-game stretch was more impressive. That opinion and the argument here about which way to calculate QB rating over a stretch of games are two different things. The opinion discussion was with someone else. I strictly participated in the fact discussion.
jsb235 Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: Wouldn’t 3 TD’s in 54 attempts be massively better than 3 TD’s in 81 attempts ?? Wouldn't one int in 81 attempts be massively better than one in 54 attempts? Also, three TDs in three games is exactly the same as three TDs in three other games. They count the same. Man, talk about turning a win into a loss. Keep going, please. 1
DeathByEagle Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 How about we just keep it simple and go by the entire 2021 season stats? He was NOT a rookie and had starting experience from 2020. Here are his stats which are not great including QB Rating. Honestly Wentz had a better stat season and had a tougher sch and actually beat above .500 teams that made the playoffs. You can not seperate in a this 5 games, that 3 games etc. Its just too easy to make it in your favor. Its a simple case, Hurts last year was a below avg "QB" I dont care about his rushing stats. We are talking about him as a QB and his passing ability. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HurtJa00.htm
Shalodeep Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, brkmsn said: I'll say it again as clear as I possibly can. I understand what this thread is about. It's about how stats are compiled over a stretch. I agree with you, according to my earlier statement. The opinion, that I am referring to, happened in a different thread and was referenced in this one. That opinion is about which 3-game stretch was more impressive. That opinion and the argument here about which way to calculate QB rating over a stretch of games are two different things. Even though I agree with you on the stat computation, and on which 3 game stretch was better, the latter wouldn't entirely be because of QB rating or stats. For example if you asked people what Wentz' best 4 game stretch was as an Eagle, most would take 4 games from 2017 where he was statistically better. I, however, would take December of 2019 when our backs were to the wall and he carried the offense into the playoffs. Mine is just an opinion, and at this point, I don't have any interest in debating that in this thread. The original discussion was mine and jsb and it wasn't about a 3 game stretch, it was about Jalen's last five games and jokingly said he was figured out. 1 minute ago, DeathByEagle said: How about we just keep it simple and go by the entire 2021 season stats? He was NOT a rookie and had starting experience from 2020. Here are his stats which are not great including QB Rating. Honestly Wentz had a better stat season and had a tougher sch and actually beat above .500 teams that made the playoffs. You can not seperate in a this 5 games, that 3 games etc. Its just too easy to make it in your favor. Its a simple case, Hurts last year was a below avg "QB" I dont care about his rushing stats. We are talking about him as a QB and his passing ability. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HurtJa00.htm Averaged in the 20s in most base stats
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, jsb235 said: Wouldn't one int in 81 attempts be massively better than one in 54 attempts? Also, three TDs in three games is exactly the same as three TDs in three other games. They count the same. Yes, interception percentage is better in your stretch. Does not matter, I was a full point higher in QB rating over those 3 games when calculated correctly. I have shown you the math, it is indisputable. Quit calling it a rounding error, as @brkmsn has also pointed out, you are wrong in calculating QB rating that way, and I am 100% correct.
jsb235 Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, downundermike said: Does not matter, I was a full point higher in QB rating over those 3 games when calculated correctly. One full point in a 158 point scale is .006. Again, keep going. Your "win" is getting smaller as you go.
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Shalodeep said: Mike???? Why haven't you quit the board yet? I should. I am embarrassed by all this winning.
Shalodeep Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, downundermike said: I should. I am embarrassed by all this winning. At least a self made suspension is in order. Arson is illegal and we all watched you start a dumpster fire with jsb's attempt of an argument. Hell you argued long enough he admitted the stat he tried to use to defend Hurts he even questions....huh let them defend long enough and they will trample their old arguments to try to win the new one I guess
jsb235 Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said: At least a self made suspension is in order. Arson is illegal and we all watched you start a dumpster fire with jsb's attempt of an argument. Hell you argued long enough he admitted the stat he tried to use to defend Hurts he even questions....huh let them defend long enough and they will trample their old arguments to try to win the new one I guess The numbers I used were fine. The difference was a rounding error. The mistake I made was claiming he was much better in the last three games than any other time in the season using passer rating as the standard, which was incorrect. Using individual game passer ratings to compare two sets of three games is fine, and more accurate than using one set of stats that could be influenced by an outlier, which I have explained in detail and feel no need to keep litigating.
Guest Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, jsb235 said: The numbers I used were fine. The difference was a rounding error. The mistake I made was claiming he was much better in the last three games than any other time in the season using passer rating as the standard, which was incorrect. Using individual game passer ratings to compare two sets of three games is fine, and more accurate than using one set of stats that could be influenced by an outlier, which I have explained in detail and feel no need to keep litigating. No, the numbers you used were not fine, both of the bolded statements are incorrect, that is not how QB rating is calculated over a stretch of games as proven by the Kirk Cousins numbers. So now lets bring it full circle. The last 4 games of 2020, Jalen Hurts QB ratings average out to 70.5, but when calculated correctly, they calculate out to 78.49. What is Jalen Hurts QB rating for the last 4 games of 2020, 70.5, or 78.49 ?? @brkmsn and @Shalodeep, this ought to be good.
HazletonEagle Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, downundermike said: One stretch was against the NYG and WAS, one was against Det, Den and LAC. Eagles scored more points in my stretch against much better teams. 1
HazletonEagle Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, downundermike said: Yes, interception percentage is better in your stretch. Does not matter, I was a full point higher in QB rating over those 3 games when calculated correctly. I have shown you the math, it is indisputable. Quit calling it a rounding error, as @brkmsn has also pointed out, you are wrong in calculating QB rating that way, and I am 100% correct. 13 minutes ago, downundermike said: No, the numbers you used were not fine, both of the bolded statements are incorrect, that is not how QB rating is calculated over a stretch of games as proven by the Kirk Cousins numbers. So now lets bring it full circle. The last 4 games of 2020, Jalen Hurts QB ratings average out to 70.5, but when calculated correctly, they calculate out to 78.49. What is Jalen Hurts QB rating for the last 4 games of 2020, 70.5, or 78.49 ?? @brkmsn and @Shalodeep, this ought to be good.
jsb235 Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 Again, Cousins had two okay games, one average game and one terrible game. You can’t keep posting a number that doesn't count his terrible game as much as the other ones and think you are accurately assessing his performance over 4 games. It doesn't work like that.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now