Andy, Doug, Buddy, Kotite

[gameshowfan91]

On 9/30/2022 at 10:06 PM, Jeep_man said:

How I would rank the coaches:

 

Doug: Had a bit of luck go his way, fortune favors the brave, he was also a great coach and not as dumb as I thought he would be after listening to his first press conference as the Eagles coach.

Andy: Just didn't get it, he wasted so many great to peak years of TRA, Runyan, Donovan, Dawkins etc by going with band aid WRs like Pinkston, James Trash etc. He had to be fired and get to KC to finally correct his mistakes.

Buddy: It was all about his Defense and nothing else, didn't care one bit about his Offense, with his analogy: '5 big plays, would you usually win the game for ya, everything was built around him (Randall)'  What a load of rubbish.

Ray Rhodes: Unfortunately for Ray, the Mark Brunnell trade to the Eagles didn't happen and that pretty much sealed his fate in Philly. Ray had to contend with avg to below avg signal callers through out his years here.

Ritchie: As bad of a coach he may have been, apparently there were murmurs in 1994 when the Eagles were 7-2 that Jeff Lurie was not keen on him being the head coach and hence the season went downhill from there. Even if Ritchie did coach well, it was the years of Dallas Dynasty and Eagles had no shot at winning the Superbowl or get close to it.

Chip: I don't even know what to say... But thanks for drafting Lane Johnson and not Dion Jordan..

Chip didn't have opportunity to get Dion Jordan because Dolphins traded up ahead of Eagles to get Dion.

[Jeep_man]

45 minutes ago, gameshowfan91 said:

Chip didn't have opportunity to get Dion Jordan because Dolphins traded up ahead of Eagles to get Dion.

Had Dion Jordan been an Eagle in 2013, it would've probably cost Eagles their 1st Superbowl, considering how important Lane was on that Trophy run.

[Bwestbrook36]

4 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Peters, Sproles, Hicks and Sturgis were on IR.......

They signed Jake Elliot off the bengals practice squad.

The RBs consisted of a mixed bag of older vets, UDFAs, and wendall smallwood.

The WRs were jeffrey, smith and agholor......

They had one all-pro on defense and 3 on offense.......and Wentz missed the last 3 games and the playoffs.

The were a good team but nobody thought they would dominate the season and then, when wentz went down, nobody thought they would win anything.....3 home playoff underdogs?

They overachieved.  Which made it all so much sweeter.

Don't forget Jason Peters going down and having to rely on a second yr 5th round pick to play LT. That was paired with a journeyman lg with wiz. 

Also Jordan Hicks going down

Also relying on a rookie 7th round pick to start at corner. 

Also this was with a second yr head coach that people were calling to be fired after the chiefs game. 

The theme of the season was being underdogs and the team embraced it with dog masks and tshirts with dogs on them. 

[EazyEaglez]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:38 PM, Procus said:

Kotite, warts and all, had one great move - he hired Bud Carson as his DC.  Carson was a more brilliant defensive genius than Buddy.  Kotite rode Bud Carson's tails - it was not Richie's coaching prowess

Everyone loves Buddy, but you could argue Buddy’s coaching prowess is even worse than Kotite especially offensively. Randall’s best year as an Eagles was arguably with Kotite as his OC. I love Buddy, but to be honest he talked a bigger game than he showed. All the brutal named games (Body Bag, House of Pain, Bounty Bowl, Fog Bowl and so on) was great theater and memories, but it’s mostly just fluff. When it mattered most Buddy came up small. 

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:53 AM, birdman#12 said:

Peters, Sproles, Hicks and Sturgis were on IR.......

They signed Jake Elliot off the bengals practice squad.

The RBs consisted of a mixed bag of older vets, UDFAs, and wendall smallwood.

The WRs were jeffrey, smith and agholor......

They had one all-pro on defense and 3 on offense.......and Wentz missed the last 3 games and the playoffs.

The were a good team but nobody thought they would dominate the season and then, when wentz went down, nobody thought they would win anything.....3 home playoff underdogs?

They overachieved.  Which made it all so much sweeter.

Yeah they definitely overachieved taking into account all the injuries.  But at the beginning of the season healthy and on paper I thought it was a roster capable of a deep playoff run. 

[birdman#12]

48 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

Yeah they definitely overachieved taking into account all the injuries.  But at the beginning of the season healthy and on paper I thought it was a roster capable of a deep playoff run. 

I think that was true.......but as the injuries piled up all the way to Wentz's injury, that sentient died gradually......and being a top seed home underdog twice and super bowl underdog proved that nobody thought they would win......

[EagleVA]

On 9/30/2022 at 12:02 PM, birdman#12 said:

Andy didn't win a SB until he had Mahomes......

Andy didn't win because he was a dumb sheet for not getting a decent WR on the team, when he did they made it to the SB.

The only reason he's doing well in KC is because he's not picking the players, if he were KC wouldn't have the roster they have now.

My opinion of AR hasn't changed, he's a dumb sheet!!

[birdman#12]

7 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Andy didn't win because he was a dumb sheet for not getting a decent WR on the team, when he did they made it to the SB.

The only reason he's doing well in KC is because he's not picking the players, if he were KC wouldn't have the roster they have now.

My opinion of AR hasn't changed, he's a dumb sheet!!

Well, the guy is lock for the hall of fame.  And he's earned it.  And I'm sure Reid has a ton of say in personnel decisions in KC.  

And he just might win another super bowl or 2 before he retires.  

 

[Iggles_Phan]

13 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Andy didn't win because he was a dumb sheet for not getting a decent WR on the team, when he did they made it to the SB.

The only reason he's doing well in KC is because he's not picking the players, if he were KC wouldn't have the roster they have now.

My opinion of AR hasn't changed, he's a dumb sheet!!

Ironically, they didn't have that WR on the field during the game that was their biggest hurdle.  And somehow still won the game.  🤔

Andy will be going into the Hall of Fame.  Not bad for a dumb sheet.

[JamesK]

In my book, Doug Pedersen is legendary.  He won the Super Bowl.  That team had a lot of key players hurt too (not just Wentz), and they still won.  I remember the Vikings being heavily favored going into the NFC Championship game, and we absolutely CRUSHED them.  
 

Andy Reid is a hall of fame coach.  Period. I still root for him (except when he’s playing against the Eagles of course). 
 

Buddy was awful but actually better than Rhodes and Kotite.  I still say Chip was better than all 3 but clearly not in the same category as Doug or Andy. 

Nick has the potential to be in the Doug category. 

[eglz1]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:19 PM, EagleVA said:

Andy didn't win because he was a dumb sheet for not getting a decent WR on the team, when he did they made it to the SB.

The only reason he's doing well in KC is because he's not picking the players, if he were KC wouldn't have the roster they have now.

My opinion of AR hasn't changed, he's a dumb sheet!!

Andy as a head coach >>>>>> Andy as a personnel guy. How many Head Coaches can you name that are also top notch personnel guys? I'm sure many Head Coaches have input at draft time but how many make the final decisions?

[EagleVA]

2 hours ago, eglz1 said:

Andy as a head coach >>>>>> Andy as a personnel guy. How many Head Coaches can you name that are also top notch personnel guys? I'm sure many Head Coaches have input at draft time but how many make the final decisions?

Andy's input on WR's during his stay in Philadelphia was "we're fine there", it's like everyone except Dumbo knew the deal.   Had he realized we needed WR's we probably would have had many appearances in the SB just as the Pats did, both the NFC East and the AFC East were sorry at that time.

I ask, how many times after a playoff loss did you hear Andy got outcoached, I heard it damn near every time, so I wasn't impressed with him as a HC either, dude was dumb.

 

 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, EagleVA said:

Andy's input on WR's during his stay in Philadelphia was "we're fine there", it's like everyone except Dumbo knew the deal.   Had he realized we needed WR's we probably would have had many appearances in the SB just as the Pats did, both the NFC East and the AFC East were sorry at that time.

I ask, how many times after a playoff loss did you hear Andy got outcoached, I heard it damn near every time, so I wasn't impressed with him as a HC either, dude was dumb.

 

 

Coach speak.  He said, "We're fine there" right after the NFC CG for the 2003 season.  The next offseason, they acquired Terrell Owens.  The 2005 draft, he spent another 2nd round pick for a WR.  The 2008 draft, another 2nd.  2009 draft, 1st round pick. 

They didn't fail to address the WR position under Reid.  They failed to upgrade the position with many of the moves they made, but it was not for lack of trying.

Freddie Mitchell (2001) and Jeremy Maclin (2009) in Round 1.
Todd Pinkston (2000), Reggie Brown (2005) and Desean Jackson (2008) in Round 2.

Free agents/trades: Charles Johnson, Torrence Small, Terrell Owens, James Thrash, Kevin Curtis, Antonio Freeman...

[opa-opa]

Andy wouldnt run the damn ball. 

[eglz1]

4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Coach speak.  He said, "We're fine there" right after the NFC CG for the 2003 season.  The next offseason, they acquired Terrell Owens.  The 2005 draft, he spent another 2nd round pick for a WR.  The 2008 draft, another 2nd.  2009 draft, 1st round pick. 

They didn't fail to address the WR position under Reid.  They failed to upgrade the position with many of the moves they made, but it was not for lack of trying.

Freddie Mitchell (2001) and Jeremy Maclin (2009) in Round 1.
Todd Pinkston (2000), Reggie Brown (2005) and Desean Jackson (2008) in Round 2.

Free agents/trades: Charles Johnson, Torrence Small, Terrell Owens, James Thrash, Kevin Curtis, Antonio Freeman...

Sounds a bit like Howie up until the last couple years. Howie drafted receivers, they just mostly sucked.

[Iggles_Phan]

4 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

Sounds a bit like Howie up until the last couple years. Howie drafted receivers, they just mostly sucked.

Yup.  Organizatiojnal problem for a long time... extends through multiple front offices, coaches, etc.

[Bwestbrook36]

4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Coach speak.  He said, "We're fine there" right after the NFC CG for the 2003 season.  The next offseason, they acquired Terrell Owens.  The 2005 draft, he spent another 2nd round pick for a WR.  The 2008 draft, another 2nd.  2009 draft, 1st round pick. 

They didn't fail to address the WR position under Reid.  They failed to upgrade the position with many of the moves they made, but it was not for lack of trying.

Freddie Mitchell (2001) and Jeremy Maclin (2009) in Round 1.
Todd Pinkston (2000), Reggie Brown (2005) and Desean Jackson (2008) in Round 2.

Free agents/trades: Charles Johnson, Torrence Small, Terrell Owens, James Thrash, Kevin Curtis, Antonio Freeman...

You forgot stallworth 

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

You forgot stallworth 

That was the "..."  I knew I wasn't going to get them all.   

[SkippyX]

There is a really easy way to solve this. Coaching record.

Andy is one of the 10 greatest coaches in NFL History,. You can have all the Mahomes sad feelings you want.

Dude won with McNabb, AJ Feeley, Koy, Garcia, Vick, Smith, Foles in KC, and Mahomes.

He's widely regarded as a QB whisperer and his coaching tree is impressive.

He also won a SB in Green Bay and got to another one as part of that offensive staff.

A coach who was 182-120-1 with 11 playoff wins before Mahomes ever started a game is incredible.

Andy did not lose the SB, the out of shape thin-skinned jerk who went pick-do over-pick and then hit a wide open Bruschi lost the SB.

How you take a guy who has taken 2 teams to 5 championship games and say he's nothing without Mahomes is beyond pathetic.

The Eagles had 9 playoff wins in 66 years before Reid. He had 10 in 14 years.

The Chiefs had 3 playoff wins in the previous 43 years (2 were Montana in 2 seasons). Andy has 9 in 10 years.

Those teams were 3-13 and 2-14 the year before Andy got there.

 

Buddy was 55-55-1 and he was the defensive head coach of the 85 Bears (Ditka was not allowed in the room) He was also one of the architects of the Jets SB win.

Kotite was 40-56 as a head coach and architect of nothing. Kotite finsihed his career on a 4-35 self immolation.

No one in NFL history deserves less credit than 1990 OC Kotite mentoring Randall. It never happened. Kotite hated Randall's guts. He did not understand him or relate to him and never tried. Randall ran around and made plays that year. They did not run some advanced offense. The first real NFL offense Randall played in was in Minnesota.

 

Chump Kelly was 15-2 with Foles starting or in long relief so he traded him away. Chump is 28-35 overall as a head coach and 13-33 without Foles.

 

Rhodes was a rancid WCO coach. His Eagles QBs had 59 TDs and 71 picks. IN A WCO!

Remember his press conferences with the cursing and sexual assault analogies? He was too stupid to realize that was inappropriate for the airwaves.

37-42-1 overall

For some reason the Packers hired him and he went 8-8 with Brett Favre (22 TDs 23 picks at age 30).

 

[Iggles_Phan]

The gross playoff game stat is a bogus one to build the case upon.  Back in the day, there was no playoff, just the championship game.  Now a team can play as many as 4 playoff games in one year.   A much better comparison would be playoff appearances.  It's still an impressive stat, just less unbalanced. 

[SkippyX]

Reid has 16 seasons of 10+ wins. He has 8 seasons of 12+ wins.

Kotite, Kelly, Rhodes, and Buddy combined have 9 and 0

Vermeil has 6 and 3.

Belichick has 20 and 13

Cowher had 9 and 3

Dungy had 10 and 6

Walsh and Seifert combined had 15 and 8

[SkippyX]

Andy has been to 10 championship games in 23 years.

Belichick has been to 13 in that time.

The Cowboys and DC Name Changers have been to 0 in that time.

The Chiefs(4) and Eagles(6) in their entire histories without Andy have been to 10

Walsh and Seifert with Young and Montana went to 9

[jamiller]

On 9/30/2022 at 5:49 PM, brkmsn said:

 

 

This is a misconception people have. Buddy inherited one of the worst offensive lines in NFL history. They couldn't run block or pass block. There was no free agency when Buddy became a HC. You built through the draft or through trades. Every year, our offensive line improved a little bit under Ryan. People forget, though that Ryan's first pick was Keith Byars and his second was Anthony Toney. He also used a first round pick on Keith Jackson and traded a 1st round pick for All Pro OG Ron Solt who would soon get busted for steroids. He also drafted Cris Carter in the supplemental draft. 

Buddy never ignored the offense. The only free agency that began in Buddy's time here was Plan B which was really just a team's garbage heap. 

Interesting.  

[VeeMak]

On 9/30/2022 at 1:51 PM, JamesK said:

It takes a lot of things to go right in a season for a team to win a Super Bowl.   The year Pedersen won, Green Bay was a non-factor because Rodgers was out for the year.  I'm not saying things would have been any different, but the Eagles always struggle against Aaron Rodgers.  Doug still did a great job that year, no doubt.

Under Reid, they had 2 legitimate shots at winning it all.  1) The year they lost to TB in the NFC Championship Game, and 2) the year they lost to Arizona.   Going into those NFC Championship Games, I was convinced we would win it all. I don't even remember who to blame, but both were devastating losses.

Kotite inherited a talented roster from Buddy and managed to win a playoff game, but he basically gave away his game plans by announcing to the world that "Randall can't run in the playoffs like he does during the regular season."  Stupid idiot.

Here is how I would rank them:

1. Doug - He won it all; he's a legend
2. Andy - Really close to being good as Doug, but no SB
3. Chip - Believe it or not, I'd rank him third
4. Buddy
5. Ray Rhodes
6. Kotite - Not even good enough to coach a high school team

You lost me when you "ranked” Chip, Rhodes and Kotite without even mentioning Vermeil. We were one of the worst teams in the NFL in the 60’s and 70’s.  When Vermeil took over the team in 1976, we hadn’t made the playoffs since the 1960  championship.  We made the postseason in 1978, ending 18 years of misery and then he got us to the Super Bowl in 1980.  1980 was a great year to be a sports fan in Philly.  Yes, he got out coached in the big game.  Doug will forever be loved by all of us for finally bringing that parade to Broad. But I have to say that Vermeil was the best pure coach in the history of the Eagles.  He inherited nothing, started from scratch and changed the culture.  Reid would be the second best, but he did inherit a good defensive roster.  Doug caught lightning in a bottle and coached his butt off in the super bowl (and Nick Foles was about perfect that game too).  Buddy would get an honorable mention only for how he owned the cowboys and made us the most feared team to play.  We may lose the game with buddy, but half of your team would end up on IR after playing us. 

[JamesK]

23 minutes ago, VeeMak said:

You lost me when you "ranked” Chip, Rhodes and Kotite without even mentioning Vermeil. We were one of the worst teams in the NFL in the 60’s and 70’s.  When Vermeil took over the team in 1976, we hadn’t made the playoffs since the 1960  championship.  We made the postseason in 1978, ending 18 years of misery and then he got us to the Super Bowl in 1980.  1980 was a great year to be a sports fan in Philly.  Yes, he got out coached in the big game.  Doug will forever be loved by all of us for finally bringing that parade to Broad. But I have to say that Vermeil was the best pure coach in the history of the Eagles.  He inherited nothing, started from scratch and changed the culture.  Reid would be the second best, but he did inherit a good defensive roster.  Doug caught lightning in a bottle and coached his butt off in the super bowl (and Nick Foles was about perfect that game too).  Buddy would get an honorable mention only for how he owned the cowboys and made us the most feared team to play.  We may lose the game with buddy, but half of your team would end up on IR after playing us. 

I thought we were talking about the more recent coaches, but I'd rank Vermiel with Doug and Andy.