1 hour ago, Toty said:

Got in on BITO at $41.15/share this morning (but with very little investment).

Guess we'll see what happens.

If you’re going to be buying BTC, forget the ETF. Buy the actual coin yourself. The entire purpose of the thing is self custody and you’ll avoid a ton a bunch of fees.

1 hour ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Show me where in 2017 you sold the top and bought in big after it down at least 50%

 

Obviously selling the top is great. But you'll get it wrong and you won't buy the bottom. I can guarantee it 

My bank account and the number of coins I own.

Let me watch my 7 figures dwindle down to 6 because  I know it will rise again. Or I can travel the world, buy a new house, have my son enjoy experiences that he will never forget, and still be able to buy back in when we go into a bear market.

Life is fleeting, I'll always take the money now. 

9 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

My bank account and the number of coins I own.

Let me watch my 7 figures dwindle down to 6 because  I know it will rise again. Or I can travel the world, buy a new house, have my son enjoy experiences that he will never forget, and still be able to buy back in when we go into a bear market.

Life is fleeting, I'll always take the money now. 

Obviously watching numbers go up and down on a computer screen is more fulfilling than doing all that nonsense.

26 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

My bank account and the number of coins I own.

Let me watch my 7 figures dwindle down to 6 because  I know it will rise again. Or I can travel the world, buy a new house, have my son enjoy experiences that he will never forget, and still be able to buy back in when we go into a bear market.

Life is fleeting, I'll always take the money now. 

Sure, show me on Binance/Coinbase/Gemini back in 2017 where you sold between 18-20k

23 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

Obviously watching numbers go up and down on a computer screen is more fulfilling than doing all that nonsense.

Almost as fulfilling as complaining about people from a computer screen who watch numbers go up and down on a computer screen

Also it's the exact opposite. Trying to trade is time consuming. Holding for years is not 

1 minute ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Almost as fulfilling as complaining about people from a computer screen watching numbers go up and down on a computer screen

You read that as a complaint? It was a comment with a bit of mild sarcasm because what he described sounded a lot better than watching the price of Bitcoin go up and down. I guess I was actually complimenting him as it seems he is living a pretty pleasant and full life. I can explain it more if you still need help. I'm curious about what part of it you took as a complaint, so please explain if you can.

Also I would say stop being so sensitive about this crap, but it's actually pretty entertaining. Continue.

19 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Sure, show me on Binance/Coinbase/Gemini back in 2017 where you sold between 18-20k

I mean, if we still had the old EMB you could see that I called the top in that range. Maybe it was 16K or something like that, but the bubble wasn't hard to spot. When you start seeing ads targeted at old people on CNBC, that's almost always the top. You can go back to the dotcom bubble or housing bubble and you'll see the same thing.

I do think it's a bit different this time around, and I do think the vol will decrease with time, but to act like we aren't going to have another 50% correction ever again is a bit crazy given its history. We just had one a few months ago.

Here's an idea for you guys, and is something I've done: if you're up 10X or whatever, you can just take your initial investment out and essentially have a free position. Or take out your principal plus some profit. You don't have to sell everything at once, either. You can start taking small bits out on the way up. That way you won't hit the absolute top, but you won't totally miss the top either. You don't have to buy in all at once either, for that matter. When you get that huge swing down, you can start buying in at small amounts. Same thing -- you won't time the absolute bottom but you won't miss it completely either.

Again, I'll go back to Buffet:

Rule #1 -- don't lose money.

Rule #2 -- don't lose money

Getting your initial investment out will let you sleep a lot easier and it'll give you some capital for any other opportunities that might arise. Maybe take out a little bit of profit as well to make the trade profitable. From there, everything else is gravy. Not financial advice, just something to think about.

1 hour ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Almost as fulfilling as complaining about people from a computer screen who watch numbers go up and down on a computer screen

Also it's the exact opposite. Trying to trade is time consuming. Holding for years is not 

So it takes you a few days or weeks to sell?

How long between you wanting or maybe needing some cash and actually having it in a bank account? 

 

 

2 hours ago, TEW said:

I mean, if we still had the old EMB you could see that I called the top in that range. Maybe it was 16K or something like that, but the bubble wasn't hard to spot. When you start seeing ads targeted at old people on CNBC, that's almost always the top. You can go back to the dotcom bubble or housing bubble and you'll see the same thing.

I do think it's a bit different this time around, and I do think the vol will decrease with time, but to act like we aren't going to have another 50% correction ever again is a bit crazy given its history. We just had one a few months ago.

Here's an idea for you guys, and is something I've done: if you're up 10X or whatever, you can just take your initial investment out and essentially have a free position. Or take out your principal plus some profit. You don't have to sell everything at once, either. You can start taking small bits out on the way up. That way you won't hit the absolute top, but you won't totally miss the top either. You don't have to buy in all at once either, for that matter. When you get that huge swing down, you can start buying in at small amounts. Same thing -- you won't time the absolute bottom but you won't miss it completely either.

Again, I'll go back to Buffet:

Rule #1 -- don't lose money.

Rule #2 -- don't lose money

Getting your initial investment out will let you sleep a lot easier and it'll give you some capital for any other opportunities that might arise. Maybe take out a little bit of profit as well to make the trade profitable. From there, everything else is gravy. Not financial advice, just something to think about.

You did call that top. You want to know what else you did? You called it tulips sub 1k. If you bought that and held through that top, you murdered it in gains. Now I wonder who did that...

Again, selling the top would be great. Almost no one will successfully do it, some of the most intelligent people in the world that are in crypto and understood its market cycle missed it. I think selling whenever you hit a particular goal or for things in your life that truly matter and remaining unemotional is likely the best strategy

1 hour ago, Boogyman said:

So it takes you a few days or weeks to sell?

How long between you wanting or maybe needing some cash and actually having it in a bank account? 

Trying to trade requires you to time the market and understand market cycles. We're not talking about just hitting sell, it's all the work that goes into it.

Holding doesn't require that

5 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

You did call that top. You want to know what else you did? You called it tulips sub 1k. If you bought that and held through that top, you murdered it in gains. Now I wonder who did that...

 

And he did many times thereafter. All this "it's different this time, there's institutional money now!" is simple post-hoc rationalization for someone wholly incapable of admitting they were wrong. Your approach is abrasive, over the top, and potentially dangerous, but at least it's not as blatantly wrong as those who called bitcoin tulips, beanie babies, baseball cards, etc over the years like TEW, PFFB, and others did on the old boards. 

Quote

Again, selling the top would be great. Almost no one will successfully do it, some of the most intelligent people in the world that are in crypto and understood its market cycle missed it. I think selling whenever you hit a particular goal or for things in your life that truly matter and remaining unemotional is likely the best strategy

^This

2 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Trying to trade requires you to time the market and understand market cycles. We're not talking about just hitting sell, it's all the work that goes into it.

Holding doesn't require that

I am asking if you absolutely needed, say 50 or 100 grand? How long would it take to get it in your account?

Just now, Boogyman said:

I am asking if you absolutely needed, say 50 or 100 grand? How long would it take to get it in your account?

Depends on the exchange you're using. If it's via something like Robinhood, it should be 3-5 days. For coinbase, it might take longer for a withdrawal of that size. Also, hopefully anyone doing this fully understands the tax implications.

5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

And he did many times thereafter. All this "it's different this time, there's institutional money now!" is simple post-hoc rationalization for someone wholly incapable of admitting they were wrong. Your approach is abrasive, over the top, and potentially dangerous, but at least it's not as blatantly wrong as those who called bitcoin tulips, beanie babies, baseball cards, etc over the years like TEW, PFFB, and others did on the old boards. 

My approach is the complete opposite of dangerous. My approach has given me life changing gains without ever putting myself in any sort of compromising position whatsoever. While investing in Bitcoin and crypto, I paid off my entire student loan debt, bought a nice BMW straight cash, invested in stocks, real estate, lived at Venice Beach, and still had enough saved up that if I had no money coming in I wouldn't be in trouble for years lol. 10% is not dangerous. Dangerous is missing out 

6 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

My approach is the complete opposite of dangerous. My approach has given me life changing gains without ever putting myself in any sort of compromising position whatsoever. While investing in Bitcoin and crypto, I paid off my entire student loan debt, my car, invested in stocks, real estate, lived at Venice Beach, and still had enough saved up that if I had no money coming in I wouldn't be in trouble for years lol. 10% is not dangerous. Dangerous is missing out 

By approach, I also meant your approach to the discussion not just your approach to investing in cryptocurrency. When you speak of it in such absolute terms, only to fall back on "dont be so literal, lol", then you shouldn't be so shocked when you get mistaken for a shill. When you say in no uncertain terms that BTC will replace the USD, people are going to tune you out immediately. It's why I choose to focus on the technical aspects more so than the philosophical or ideological ones, because the latter are too subjective and get misconstrued far too easily. 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Depends on the exchange you're using. If it's via something like Robinhood, it should be 3-5 days. For coinbase, it might take longer for a withdrawal of that size. Also, hopefully anyone doing this fully understands the tax implications.

Yeah I got that. I'm not really asking for my own personal use. I'm more leading with my questions.

7 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

I am asking if you absolutely needed, say 50 or 100 grand? How long would it take to get it in your account?

I have never put myself in that position and wouldn't ever so it's just irrelevant. I've never sold lol. And if I do decide to sell some, I won't care whether it takes a few days or a few months for it to get to my bank account. I'll be alright 

Just now, mattmcginley7 said:

I have never put myself in that position and wouldn't ever so it's just irrelevant. I've never sold lol. And if I do decide to sell some, I won't care whether it takes a few days or a few months for it to get to my bank account. I'll be alright 

I'm not asking about your personal finances, I was asking in general.  I have various investments, plenty of available cash, but I also know ballpark how long it would take for me to come up with 50, 100, 250 thousand, etc. If the crap hit the fan for any reason or a big opportunity came up.

 

I like @DaEagles4Life philosophy better than yours. Enjoy life, take the cash when you can (don't take big risks either) and if you take a small financial hit (after already making a huge profit) doing so F it.

 

I also find it funny you seem to just not believe that he may have sold when he said he did. Do you take that personal or something?

 

 

1 minute ago, Boogyman said:

I'm not asking about your personal finances, I was asking in general.  I have various investments, plenty of available cash, but I also know ballpark how long it would take for me to come up with 50, 100, 250 thousand, etc. If the crap hit the fan for any reason or a big opportunity came up.

 

I like @DaEagles4Life philosophy better than yours. Enjoy life, take the cash when you can (don't take big risks either) and if you take a small financial hit (after already making a huge profit) doing so F it.

 

I also find it funny you seem to just not believe that he may have sold when he said he did. Do you take that personal or something?

 

 

You should probably google what this means because I think you're way off. Mooching off your wife isn't an investment. 

21 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

By approach, I also meant your approach to the discussion not just your approach to investing in cryptocurrency. When you speak of it in such absolute terms, only to fall back on "dont be so literal, lol", then you shouldn't be so shocked when you get mistaken for a shill. When you say in no uncertain terms that BTC will replace the USD, people are going to tune you out immediately. It's why I choose to focus on the technical aspects more so than the philosophical or ideological ones, because the latter are too subjective get misconstrued far too easily. 

The ideological discussion on Bitcoin is everything, it's why I've held for as long as I have without ever once considering selling. 

I've spent years learning about why Bitcoin is so important for the world and from my education and point of view is it's probably going to go down as the greatest thing built on top of the internet because of how fundamentally important money is to all people in the world

How many countries have to watch their savings go to waste due to inflation? What has happened in this country since going off the gold standard in 1971? Homes this year alone at 25% more expensive than last year. The poorest people in this country and around the world are getting taken for a ride due to every country able to create new units of money based on nothing at all that is distributed first to the governments, those in power, corporations, and the poorest get a nice little $600 stimulus check

This s*** can't continue. The wealth inequality is continuing to get worse and Bitcoin literally is designed with the purpose of maintaining its value through time and space better than any other month ever. And no one, no matter how powerful, can alter the supply.
 

My take is government is not really evil; most of them I think are well intentioned but don't realize the consequences of their actions. And if they are evil, they'll likely choose to hoard Bitcoin once it reaches escape velocity

In that sense, holding Bitcoin is easy for me. And I likely envision a future where there won't ever be a point in selling; it will be interoperable with everyone everywhere, from your bank, your Uber, or some random person on the other side of the world

I'm sure I'll sell some small amount this cycle because I'll have so much. But I'll also see this through no matter what and I'm cool with that

6 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

I'm not asking about your personal finances, I was asking in general.  I have various investments, plenty of available cash, but I also know ballpark how long it would take for me to come up with 50, 100, 250 thousand, etc. If the crap hit the fan for any reason or a big opportunity came up.

 

I like @DaEagles4Life philosophy better than yours. Enjoy life, take the cash when you can (don't take big risks either) and if you take a small financial hit (after already making a huge profit) doing so F it.

 

I also find it funny you seem to just not believe that he may have sold when he said he did. Do you take that personal or something?

 

 

I already have a lot available, enough that nothing can f me. It's not a concern. I would say don't put yourself in a position where that becomes a concern. 
 

I know of no one personally that bought early 2017 or earlier and sold that 2017 top. If he did, he's the only person I heard that has successfully done it
 

You may like his strategy more, but all I can tell you is that the richest people all in crypto are long term holders

8 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

The ideological discussion on Bitcoin is everything, it's why I've held for as long as I have without ever once considering selling. 

I've spent years learning about why Bitcoin is so important for the world and from my education and point of view it's probably going to go down as the greatest thing built on top of the internet because of how fundamentally important money is to all people in the world

How many countries have to watch their savings go to waste due to inflation? What has happened in this country since going off the gold standard in 1971? Homes this year alone at 25% more expensive than last year. The poorest people in this country and around the world are getting taken for a ride due to every country able to create new units of money based on nothing at all that is distributed first to the governments, those in power, corporations, and the poorest get a nice little $600 stimulus check

This s*** can't continue. The wealth inequality is continuing to get worse and Bitcoin literally is designed with the purpose of maintaining its value through time and space better than any other month ever. And no one, no matter how powerful, can alter the supply.
 

My take is government is not really evil; most of them I think are well intentioned but don't realize the consequences of their actions. And if they are evil, they'll likely choose to hoarde Bitcoin once it reaches escape velocity

In that sense, holding Bitcoin is easy for me. And I likely envision a future where there won't ever be a point in selling; it will be interoperable with everyone everywhere, from your bank, your Uber, or some random person on the other side of the world

I'm sure I'll sell some small amount this cycle because I'll have so much. But I'll also see this through no matter what and I'm cool with that

Again overstated, but I mostly agree with the sentiment, you obviously do, some others do, but framing it in this context is where things can spiral out of control for many others because of how easily it can lead to you understating the risks. 

Yes, yes, you think the upside is so disproportional that you've yolo'd into it, but again, that approach isn't right for everybody. The irony is that the human emotions that lead one into a trap of thinking they can call tops and bottoms and get burned are exactly the same ones that can lead one to pulling out and losing 80% of their investment during a crash. You chastised DaEagles for the very same reason why I don't advise people devote more than 1% of their portfolio to BTC. You say don't trade because your emotions (arrogance and overconfidence in this case) will get the best of you, and I'm saying don't overinvest for the very same reason (fear and irrationality during a crash.) 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I understand this, you do, some others do, but framing it in this context is where things can spiral out of control for many others because of how easily it can lead to you understating the risks. 

Yes, yes, you think the upside is so disproportional that you've yolo'd into it, but again, that approach isn't right for everybody. The irony is that the human emotions that lead one into a trap of thinking they can call tops and bottoms and get burned are exactly the same ones that can lead one to pulling out and losing 80% of their investment during a crash. You chastised DaEagles for the very same reason why I don't advise people devote more than 1% of their portfolio to BTC. You say don't trade because your emotions (arrogance and overconfidence in this case) will get the best of you, and I'm saying don't overinvest for the very same reason (fear and irrationality during a crash.) 

I don't think 10% is overinvesting for the majority of people. Risk tolerance is subjective. For someone who has a lot of money and a strong income and smaller relative bills, maybe they would do more. 

I did live smaller and made sacrifices to be in this position. And I'm incredibly glad I did 

14 minutes ago, Kz! said:

You should probably google what this means because I think you're way off. Mooching off your wife isn't an investment. 

Hahahaha. I got the kids to school, then did about 2 hours of spring cleaning today in the kitchen. Cleaned up the building out back a bit to make room for the pool furniture because it closing Monday, did about a hour workout, took a dip in the pool, and then started smoking this really nice looking tri tip. 

What did you do today?