January 4, 20214 yr Wentz isn’t getting traded just like howie isn’t getting fired. Either Wentz or Hurts start next year but both will be on roster. FA will mean lots of players we know leaving
January 4, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, binkybink77 said: Now he's talking about his approach to relationships with the players is different from Brad Pitt's in Moneyball. Like free soda in the soda machines, stuff like that?
January 4, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, TV Guy said: Like free soda in the soda machines, stuff like that? I think he was attempting to say reality is different than fiction ?
January 4, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, paco said: So... pushing their cap hit to 2022..... Yep. Kicking the can down the road. It's going to be an absolute chore to get under the cap this year, but honestly I think 2022 is going to be even more of a problem. A big part of getting under the cap this year without loading it all up in 2022 was to restructure Wentz's contract by spreading out 2021's cap hit over multiple seasons via converting salary to a signing bonus. Now that he allegedly wants out, I think they save 800k in 2021 if the team trades him prior to June 1st, and $25m if it's after June 1st (but as you guessed, we just take it up the arse for that amount in 2022).
January 4, 20214 yr 16 minutes ago, Dawkins 20 said: Yep. Kicking the can down the road. It's going to be an absolute chore to get under the cap this year, but honestly I think 2022 is going to be even more of a problem. A big part of getting under the cap this year without loading it all up in 2022 was to restructure Wentz's contract by spreading out 2021's cap hit over multiple seasons via converting salary to a signing bonus. Now that he allegedly wants out, I think they save 800k in 2021 if the team trades him prior to June 1st, and $25m if it's after June 1st (but as you guessed, we just take it up the arse for that amount in 2022). Close. Its trading him before the third day of the new nfl year. He has a large roster bonus that takes effect on the third day. https://overthecap.com/the-eagles-options-with-carson-wentz/ Quote Trading Wentz The next option is the trade option and to me that is the only option that the Eagles should consider for 2021. When you trade a player you trade away all the guaranteed salary along with it so all you need to deal with at that point is the prorated acceleration. The one caveat here is because there is a large roster bonus due on the 3rd day of the league year (remember we talked about that earlier) the Eagles would have to execute a trade prior to that date for a trade to really make sense. Here is how the salary cap works on a trade at various dates. Trade Year Trade Date Dead Money Cap Savings 2021 Prior To 3rd day of LY $33,820,608 $852,928 2021 After 3rd day of LY $43,820,608 ($9,147,072) 2022 Prior To 3rd day of LY $24,547,072 $6,727,464 2022 After 3rd day of LY $24,548,072 $6,726,464 2023 Prior To 3rd day of LY $15,273,536 $16,001,000 This represents significant savings for Philadelphia if they can move on. Trading Wentz saves the Eagles $25.4 million in salaries that would be paid in 2021 and $15 million in salary that would become guaranteed in 2022. While the overall situation is still bad (they would have paid Wentz an extra $29.6M more than if they just let his rookie deal play out) the optics would be much improved if they made this move. The question is would anyone trade for Wentz? While the Wentz contract averages $32 million a year its important to remember that the Eagles paid a good chunk of that money already. For a team trading for Wentz the contract would work out to be four years, $98.4 million or $24.6 million a season. The first two years of that contract would basically be guaranteed and the remainder would be in the control of the team that trades for him. The cap figures on the contract would be $25.4 million, $22 million, $25 million, and $26 million. To put the numbers in perspective those cap figures in 2021 and 2022 would rank 11th and 13th in the NFL. The contract value would be in line with Teddy Bridgewater ($21M a year, $42M over first two years) and Nick Foles’ Jaguars contract ($22M a year, $46.625M a year) so it is perfectly fine for someone likely considered a low level starter if he was a free agent. I don’t believe it would cost much. Primarily you are giving the Eagles financial relief by trading for him. I dont think the Eagles would kick in money (that defeats the purpose) nor would they send over a pick (they can sell that they can handle the deal in 2021 and move on in 2022). The Bears gave up a 4th round pick for Foles who was benched for Gardner Minshew so I would imagine the cost would be a 3rd here plus conditionals. Thats good for someone who just last year was considered a good signing at $32 million a year. Wentz gives a decent team who likely had no viable path to draft a young star access to a potential good quarterback who is 30. The teams that make sense in that regard are the Colts, Bears, and maybe Browns depending on what they think about Baker Mayfield at this point. The Colts of all the teams make the most sense. They are a good team with no QB on the roster for 2021. They have tons of cap space and would love access to a sub $30M QB. There is also a clear relationship with the head coach. The Bears dont really have the cap space and are on the wrong side of the age curve (though this hasnt stopped them before) and the Browns would probably chase Mayfield for another year.
January 5, 20214 yr 51 minutes ago, paco said: Close. Its trading him before the third day of the new nfl year. He has a large roster bonus that takes effect on the third day. https://overthecap.com/the-eagles-options-with-carson-wentz/ Gotcha. I was looking at the raw data on OTC and didn't factor in the bonus on the 3rd day of the new league year. I was just looking at that Pre/Post June 1st trade option and looking at the differences. When we were looking at this back in the summer, I recall that it was ridiculously difficult to get under the projected cap without restructuring Wentz (maybe even impossible?). Trading him prior to the 3rd day of the new league year removes future cap obligations, but I have a hard time believing we can get under the 2021 cap by absorbing that $33.8m hit via trade. I'd have to look at it again, but off the top of my head it would be insanely difficult. We've kicked the can down the road on so many current players on the roster that cutting them provides little to no cap relief (and let's not forget about those automatic void years!). This whole situation is totally FUBAR'd. They couldn't have F'd it up any worse if they tried.
January 5, 20214 yr I remember one of the moves off the top of my head was telling Barnett to take a hike. Without looking at it, I think they save $10m with no dead money. On the other hand, they have absolutely nobody to take over for him and they can't draft worth a F.
January 5, 20214 yr 66 mil in dead money if cut 34 if traded. Hard to see the Eagles moving on from Wentz's with those numbers
January 5, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Dawkins 20 said: I remember one of the moves off the top of my head was telling Barnett to take a hike. Without looking at it, I think they save $10m with no dead money. On the other hand, they have absolutely nobody to take over for him and they can't draft worth a F. It's a weak DE draft. I fully expect him to get an extension and lower his cap hit
January 5, 20214 yr 58 minutes ago, Godfather said: 66 mil in dead money if cut 34 if traded. Hard to see the Eagles moving on from Wentz's with those numbers I could be wrong, but cuts and trades are the same, cap wise
January 5, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, paco said: I could be wrong, but cuts and trades are the same, cap wise Not exactly. In the late 90’s/early 2000’s, when massive signing bonuses and no guaranteed salary was how contracts were done, that would be correct. But in the time since signing bonuses became smaller for the trade off of guaranteed salary, a trade will still accelerate the remaining SB proration, but all guaranteed base salary stays with the contract and becomes the responsibility of the new team. Cutting still works the same way.
January 5, 20214 yr 14 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: Not exactly. In the late 90’s/early 2000’s, when massive signing bonuses and no guaranteed salary was how contracts were done, that would be correct. But in the time since signing bonuses became smaller for the trade off of guaranteed salary, a trade will still accelerate the remaining SB proration, but all guaranteed base salary stays with the contract and becomes the responsibility of the new team. Cutting still works the same way. Im having trouble finding that, most places are said what I thought. (Can you point me in the right direction?) But.... Quote Guaranteed for injury: If a player suffers a football injury and cannot pass a physical administered by the team doctor, he would still be entitled to his full salary if the team were to release him. For a player with several future seasons guaranteed for injury only, it would take a career-ending injury for the team to be on the hook for all those future injury-only guaranteed salaries. Guaranteed for skill: The most subjective of the three, a player whose talents have significantly declined and is released for skill-related reasons (ie. another player beats him out for a roster spot) would still be entitled to his full salary if that salary is guaranteed for skill. Guaranteed for cap purposes: This form of guarantee ensures that a player who is released due to his team’s need to create cap room will still be entitled to his full salary. So yeah, Im now more confused than before I started searching for answers
January 5, 20214 yr 10 hours ago, paco said: Im having trouble finding that, most places are said what I thought. (Can you point me in the right direction?) But.... So yeah, Im now more confused than before I started searching for answers This is why we have cap genius Howie Mandel!
January 5, 20214 yr 43 minutes ago, mikemack8 said: This is why we have cap genius Howie Mandel! at this point, i wouldn't trust howie to sell me an eagles hat at Caps.
January 5, 20214 yr 13 hours ago, paco said: I could be wrong, but cuts and trades are the same, cap wise Per Andrew Brandt, those are the numbers
January 5, 20214 yr 17 hours ago, paco said: So... pushing their cap hit to 2022..... Spreading it out To 2022
January 6, 20214 yr The season was lost and clearly Doug made the "move" to Sudfeld. That only happens because the entire organization spent the previous week discussing that and letting Nate and at least the Offense know that they planned on having him see several drives on Sunday. Nobody on the Eagles staff was "shocked" when that move happened.
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