July 5, 20232 yr I won't be convinced things are better until HBCU's start admitting more Asians no justice no peace
July 5, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I mean, it's really not that difficult. Race is a federally protected class, like gender. You can't discriminate SOLELY on the basis of race. Schools will prioritize students from poorer school districts instead, and that is 100% legal. Wait until they find out how many poor whites there are.
July 5, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, dawkins4prez said: College loans are whole 'nother issue. 46% of 6% is still more than 70% of 1%, which is what it will be without AA. As long as we can trace generational progress, and we can, then it was still working. you're ignoring the actual problem needing to be solved: we need to get black students (or more appropriately, students from poorer backgrounds) to a place where they are set up for success at the college level. AA in college admissions isn't going to solve that. And as myself and Vikas already said, the universities are just going to fall back to another metric - whether it be socio-economic class or "adversity scores" - to foster diversity. there's not going to be a lot of practical effect. maybe it will even be a good thing because instead of trying to solve a problem in 2023 with a solution from 1969, we can come up with a more appropriate and effective strategy.
July 5, 20232 yr 21 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Absolute BS. AA was the "hard work" of fixing racial injustice. It was clumsy and slow but brought higher education into minority communities where it wasn't and wouldn't have been. The blowback is going to be fierce. If we don't do it the hard and slow way, we are going to have to face the fast and brutal way instead (reparations). You guys have no sense of forward vision if you can't see what' coming because of this.. AA was anything but "hard work". Quotas is lazy work. Period.
July 5, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said: you're ignoring the actual problem needing to be solved: we need to get black students (or more appropriately, students from poorer backgrounds) to a place where they are set up for success at the college level. AA in college admissions isn't going to solve that. And as myself and Vikas already said, the universities are just going to fall back to another metric - whether it be socio-economic class or "adversity scores" - to foster diversity. there's not going to be a lot of practical effect. maybe it will even be a good thing because instead of trying to solve a problem in 2023 with a solution from 1969, we can come up with a more appropriate and effective strategy. Why this assumption that they will use another more fair metric? A pretty hefty casual assumption to sling about as the assumed solution.
July 5, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: AA was anything but "hard work". Quotas is lazy work. Period. legislating and maintaining legislation for minorities is damn hard work son.
July 5, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, dawkins4prez said: Why this assumption that they will use another more fair metric? A pretty hefty casual assumption to sling about as the assumed solution. because it's exactly what California did after it did away with AA on college admissions almost 30 years ago. Harvard never had to use race as a consideration during admissions. They chose to. And now they will seek other methods - they've explicitly said as much.
July 5, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: legislating and maintaining legislation for minorities is damn hard work son. California has not had AA in college admissions for almost 30 years ... why does California hate minorities? (probably shouldn't use the term minorities either, considering Asians were central to bringing this case to the SC)
July 5, 20232 yr 27 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: because it's exactly what California did after it did away with AA on college admissions almost 30 years ago. Harvard never had to use race as a consideration during admissions. They chose to. And now they will seek other methods - they've explicitly said as much. You know nothing John Snow! And i hereby promise to disagree with you more from now on just so I can say that more often! Point being, well duh, of course you can count on California and Harvard to do that. Can you count on all universities? Hell no, the net effect will be less college degrees nationwide for racial minorities and in some parts and echelons of the system it could be way less.
July 5, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: legislating and maintaining legislation for minorities is damn hard work son. 1) I'm not your son 2) quotas is as lazy as you can with "solving" a problem. It's a surface level solution that does absolutely nothing to address the root cause of a problem 3) AA wasn't "for minorities". It was for some minorities. And an argument can be made that it actually didn't help. I was an amateur boxer in college. As a white kid, I was a minority in that arena. Training in gyms in DC, I was one of few white kids in the gym, sometimes the only one. If USABoxing had come out with a policy that said, "white boxers will be given an extra 2 points for each round and black boxers will be deducted 1 point for each round" do you think this would have helped me in my quest to be the best amateur boxer I can be?
July 5, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Point being, well duh, of course you can count on California and Harvard to do that. Can you count on all universities? Hell no, the net effect will be less college degrees nationwide for racial minorities and in some parts and echelons of the system it could be way less. Ok, let me spell this out: considering race for college admissions prior to this decision was not obligatory. In fact the majority of colleges and universities already did not use race as a consideration for college admissions. 9 out of 50 states had banned it already. Support for use of race and ethnicity in college admissions is not as controversial as you think: Even among the black population only 47% straight up approve of it. Back to your actual point .. you seem to think there was some sort of coercive action that government was taking against universities, and that this ruling removed that coercion. That's simply false. What we have is a situation where some colleges and universities were consciously choosing to use race as a factor in college admissions. And they're no longer allowed to do so. Why do you think that these same universities that made a conscious decision to make race a factor, would not seek out some other proxy that isn't a protected class when considering applicants?
July 5, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: 1) I'm not your son 2) quotas is as lazy as you can with "solving" a problem. It's a surface level solution that does absolutely nothing to address the root cause of a problem 3) AA wasn't "for minorities". It was for some minorities. And an argument can be made that it actually didn't help. I was an amateur boxer in college. As a white kid, I was a minority in that arena. Training in gyms in DC, I was one of few white kids in the gym, sometimes the only one. If USABoxing had come out with a policy that said, "white boxers will be given an extra 2 points for each round and black boxers will be deducted 1 point for each round" do you think this would have helped me in my quest to be the best amateur boxer I can be? not for nothing, but race quotas for college admissions were banned in 1978.
July 5, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: 1) I'm not your son 2) quotas is as lazy as you can with "solving" a problem. It's a surface level solution that does absolutely nothing to address the root cause of a problem 3) AA wasn't "for minorities". It was for some minorities. And an argument can be made that it actually didn't help. I was an amateur boxer in college. As a white kid, I was a minority in that arena. Training in gyms in DC, I was one of few white kids in the gym, sometimes the only one. If USABoxing had come out with a policy that said, "white boxers will be given an extra 2 points for each round and black boxers will be deducted 1 point for each round" do you think this would have helped me in my quest to be the best amateur boxer I can be? Sorry if I offended you, child. Your college boxing career is such a bad metaphor for AA I don't even know what to do with it.
July 5, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, dawkins4prez said: If only they would. They are going focus on who can pay (not minorities), who can afford SAT classes (not minorities) and who has more recommendations from their inner circle (also not minorities), just like they used to before AA and just like they have been doing for the bulk of admissions sans the top and the bottom which was reserved for AA. You are one silly rabbit if you think striking down AA makes it color blind. AA was a meek but somewhat effective counter for the reality of University admissions which is anything but. They still won't give minorities student loans either??!! And there's no SAT prep classes offered in the high schools anymore? 1 hour ago, dawkins4prez said: Absolute BS. AA was the "hard work" of fixing racial injustice. It was clumsy and slow but brought higher education into minority communities where it wasn't and wouldn't have been. The blowback is going to be fierce. If we don't do it the hard and slow way, we are going to have to face the fast and brutal way instead (reparations). You guys have no sense of forward vision if you can't see what' coming because of this.. Yeah, throwing more "free" money at the problem will solve it. Suddenly, all the dad's will stick around, abhorrence for education, etc. will all just...stop.
July 5, 20232 yr 32 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: not for nothing, but race quotas for college admissions were banned in 1978. Yes, explicit quotas. But universities were still using race as a factor in admissions to try to hit a diversity target. But they couldn't go "we're reserving 15% of the admission spots in this years incoming class for students of x race"
July 5, 20232 yr hey @JohnSnowsHair James Carville wants to know what is about black folks going to school that you don't like! The Ragin' Cajun has spoken
July 5, 20232 yr 37 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Sorry if I offended you, child. Your college boxing career is such a bad metaphor for AA I don't even know what to do with it. It's actually not. White kids are "under-represented" in amateur boxing tournaments. By the pro-AA logic, a way to "fix" this would be to simply give more spots in amateur boxing tournaments to white kids, even if it means artificially skewing the results of their performance to get them in.
July 5, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Why does Teddy KGB care about affirmative action? Pay that man his...tuition.
July 5, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, Arthur Jackson said: hey @JohnSnowsHair James Carville wants to know what is about black folks going to school that you don't like! The Ragin' Cajun has spoken 9 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Why does Teddy KGB care about affirmative action? I'm thinking his Cajun accent might actually be worse than his Russian accent.
July 5, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I'm thinking his Cajun accent might actually be worse than his Russian accent. How dare you? That was a theatrical tour de force. And yes, I watched that ending scene on TV this weekend.
July 5, 20232 yr It's clear Republicans don't want minorities to get an education. Attacking scholarships and student loans. Republicans Target Minority Scholarships After Supreme Court’s Affirmative Action Ruling https://www.yahoo.com/news/republicans-target-minority-scholarships-supreme-190721935.html It took Republicans no time at all to take the Supreme Court’s affirmative action decision and use it to attack other educational initiatives intended to support people of color. On Thursday — the same day the Court declared race-conscious admissions policies unconstitutional — the state’s attorney general, Andrew Bailey, dispatched a letter to colleges and universities across the state: "Missouri institutions must identify all policies that give preference to individuals on the basis of race and immediately halt the implementation of such policies.” Hours later, the University of Missouri — which enrolls 70,000 students across four campuses — declared, in a statement acknowledging Bailey’s letter, it would end race-based financial aid programs. "As allowed by prior law, a small number of our programs and scholarships have used race/ethnicity as a factor for admissions and scholarships. Those practices will be discontinued, and we will abide by the new Supreme Court ruling concerning legal standards that applies to race-based admissions and race-based scholarships,” Christian Basi, spokesperson for the university, wrote.
July 6, 20232 yr What about privately endorsed scholarships? For example can some wealthy black alum earmark their yearly donation or inheritance lump sum donation just for black students?
July 6, 20232 yr One part of the problem is pushing 4 year degree with expensive student loans as the only path. Not trades, technical schools and other options. A lot of people with degrees don't use them and end up in jobs that don't require degrees like sales or real estate. Not every 17 year old knows truly what they want to do.
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