Iran playing F Around and Find Out

[Toastrel]

Iran tried to seize 2 oil tankers near Strait of Hormuz and fired shots at one of them, US Navy says

Iran tried to seize 2 oil tankers near Strait of Hormuz and fired shots at one of them, US Navy says (msn.com)

Quote

Iran tried to seize two oil tankers near the strategic Strait of Hormuz early Wednesday, opening fire on one of them, the U.S. Navy said.

It said that in both cases, the Iranian naval vessels backed off after the U.S. Navy dispatched a guided missile destroyer to the scene, and that both commercial ships continued their voyages.

"The Iranian navy did make attempts to seize commercial tankers lawfully transiting international waters,” said Cmdr. Tim Hawkins, spokesman for the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet. "The U.S. Navy responded immediately and prevented those seizures.”

Cool, just what we needed.

[JohnSnowsHair]

exhibit A of why the US Navy is the most important tool we have to ensure global stability, both economically and militarily. 

[Procus]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:34 PM, JohnSnowsHair said:

exhibit A of why the US Navy is the most important tool we have to ensure global stability, both economically and militarily. 

The country that controls the sea lanes historically is the reserve currency - so indeed economically

[Arthur Jackson]

I juts realize that you can play with yourself THROUGH YOUR PANTS POCKET!

So if you see a hot girl at the bus/tube station - you you just pretend your fishing around for your keys!

[Procus]

Meanwhile the administration is propping up the regime with a cool $6 billion. 

[lynched1]

It's certainly a better look than being boarded and submitted by the Iranian navy.

[toolg]

US and Britain launch strikes against Houthis in Yemen.

 

[Procus]

Looks like things are heating up between Iran and Pakistan.  Pakistan looks like it's on the fast track to becoming a failed state with nukes.  Now I'm reading that following an Iranian missile strike inside Pakistan, the Pakistanis are flying near the Iranian border.

[jsdarkstar]

28 minutes ago, Procus said:

Looks like things are heating up between Iran and Pakistan.  Pakistan looks like it's on the fast track to becoming a failed state with nukes.  Now I'm reading that following an Iranian missile strike inside Pakistan, the Pakistanis are flying near the Iranian border.

 

[EaglesRocker97]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:34 PM, JohnSnowsHair said:

exhibit A of why the US Navy is the most important tool we have to ensure global stability, both economically and militarily. 

Alfred Thayer Mahan, is that you?

[Bill]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:34 PM, JohnSnowsHair said:

exhibit A of why the US Navy is the most important tool we have to ensure global stability, both economically and militarily. 

Honestly I think you can make the case that the DoD budget should be well north of $1T. 
 

One thing that I’m thinking is that we have lost our post ‘91 ability to just show up and that was enough of a deterrence for most things. It appears to me that we’re seeing the effects of the breakdown of Breton Woods combined with a few decades since our last overwhelming military victory leading to regional dictators trying to get theirs because they forgot why the US citizenry doesn’t have universal healthcare. It doesn’t help things when you have the far left anti interventionists and the far right isolationists trying to keep the US from doing what it needs to do. 

[Procus]

 

[Bill]

It’ll be interesting to see what Pakistan is capable of against Iran, given Pakistan’s combo of 1980’s F-16’s and Chinesium JF-17’s. 
 

As @Mlodj made note of in the Ukraine thread, it seems that betting on SAMs versus having a robust air capability is the loser. 

[Talkingbirds]

Pakistan has nukes, just in case.

[Mlodj]

20 hours ago, Bill said:

It’ll be interesting to see what Pakistan is capable of against Iran, given Pakistan’s combo of 1980’s F-16’s and Chinesium JF-17’s. 
 

As @Mlodj made note of in the Ukraine thread, it seems that betting on SAMs versus having a robust air capability is the loser. 

SAMs versus a competent air force loses.  The key qualifier for the air force is competent.  For a third world nation, building a worthwhile air force is almost inevitably beyond their means, so a SAM umbrella, which can at least provide some defensive capability, is a reasonable alternative.  It is cheaper and combat ready by orders of magnitude over building a capable air force. Plus it's tied to the army, which is usually the focus of the government, because it doubles as a force that can oppress the domestic opposition.

As far as the Paks versus Iran, the Pakistanis have far superior air to air missiles and avionics.  Although, that doesn't mean they are competent using them.

[DaEagles4Life]

What all made this escalate? 

[Procus]

50 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

What all made this escalate? 

Israeli reports are saying that the attacks in Pakistan were a message to the U.S. and Israel to demonstrate that Iran has very accurate and powerful missiles

[Mlodj]

21 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

What all made this escalate? 

I blame McNabb.

[TEW]

Did they stop teaching Operation Praying Mantis in Iranian schools?

[TEW]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:49 PM, Bill said:

Honestly I think you can make the case that the DoD budget should be well north of $1T. 
 

One thing that I’m thinking is that we have lost our post ‘91 ability to just show up and that was enough of a deterrence for most things. It appears to me that we’re seeing the effects of the breakdown of Breton Woods combined with a few decades since our last overwhelming military victory leading to regional dictators trying to get theirs because they forgot why the US citizenry doesn’t have universal healthcare. It doesn’t help things when you have the far left anti interventionists and the far right isolationists trying to keep the US from doing what it needs to do. 

The problem is the US can’t win an occupation, and everyone has figured that out. Vietnam and Afghanistan have proven this.

Everyone understands that the US will win a head to head conventional war against a second rate military. That’s not in question. Everyone also understands that the US can assassinate anyone on the planet.

But the "regional dictators” also understand that basic insurgency works against the US. We aren’t savage and ruthless enough to subjugate a population. We won’t put an entire population to the sword, which is how they keep the peace. We truly try to be the good guys.

But that means we have to engage in multi-generational projects of bringing people with Bronze Age world views into modernity. And we have to do that in a region with a virtually limitless supply of dumb young men with zero prospects for a decent life who are indoctrinated in the most vile and violent religion ever devised by man.

We simply can’t afford to win. We can’t afford to nation build for 100+ years, not just on a reconstruction level as we did in Europe and Japan during the postwar period, but on a social level as well. The wisdom of the masses is right on this one. We should prevent our military from these undertakings.

To paraphrase Sun Tsu, if a war can’t be won don’t fight it. The wars the US can win are occupations against modern first world countries with post enlightenment populations OR limited engagements against backwards third world nations.

So sure, do what Reagan did and sink the Iranian Navy in a few hours. Or do what HW Bush did and obliterate an Army while leaving the regional dictator in power. But for heaven’s sake, do not let the neocons have a say in our ambitions to overthrow a dictator and then try to turn the population into a western people.

[Procus]

[Arthur Jackson]