Why No Respect for Randall Cunningham?

[wrestlevessel]

I live in Northern NJ so I don't hear Philly Sports Talk Radio but about a week and a half ago I was on vacation in Ocean City, Maryland and heard a show. They talked about Mount Rushmore of Eagles and if you would put Howie or Reid on it. They also talked about best Eagles QBs and shockingly Vick was mentioned a few times, as well as McNabb. How could not a single person mention Randall Cunningham. He was an outstanding athlete and great QB and keep in mind he had to deal with poor coaching from Buddy Ryan and Rich Kotite, and had no offensive line with no star running back. He is underrated and does not get the credit he deserves. Imagine if Randall had Reid. 

[Iggles25]

No Super Bowl=We Don't Care Mayne

[Bwestbrook36]

How cares what you heard on the radio in Maryland 

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

Randall was nowhere near as good as the memories that many fans have of him. He was exciting and he had his moments, but he was never a truly elite player.

[SkippyX]

Randall was awesome and almost 100% on singular talent. His coaches and supporting players were bad.

His offensive lines from 1985-1991 were all-time horrific. They were mediocre to bad after that, but like Antone Davis cost 2 first rounders for 1 bad OL.

1st round pick rapist, steroid shrinky-dink-Solt, a DT playing OL, Tommy Conwell's brother, etc...

Even the overrated D was Swiss cheese at CB2 for most of his career. The one year the D was awesome was the year he was hurt.

 

I have gone deep dive on Randall before but its quite amazing. No one in any sport has ever faced his divisional competition AFAIK. The 70s Oilers only had 4 Steelers SBs in the way.

• 1986 Giants SB
• 1987 DC SB
• 1990 NYG SB
• 1991 DC SB
• 1992 Dallas SB
• 1993 Dallas SB
• 1995 Dallas SB

7 SBs in his 11 years here. That's Gibbs, Johnson, Parcells, Belichick, etc vs 3 offensive morons in Buddy, Kotite, and worst WCO coach of all-time, Rhodes.

Buddy should be in the HoF for his defensive mind but on offense he said "Go make 5 plays for me, Randall!"

If you switched Randall and Jim Kelly then the Bills probably have 2 or 3 rings and Philly gets worse.

He finally got to a good team with good coaches at age 35 and he was 1 shank from playing in the SB.

 

 

[SkippyX]

Keith Byars was an incredible bust. Sure, he was a decent receiver but he was the 10th overall pick. He ran for 3.4 a pop his first 5 years... as the 10th overall pick.

Byars averaged 581 and 2.2 as a receiver after his rookie year(87-92). Its not like he was Marshall Faulk or Roger Craig.

Michael Haddix was the 8th overall pick and ran for 3 a pop.

Anthoney Toney was a career 3.6 ypc RB.

The 1985-1990 Eagles RBs were rancid trash.  They eventually got better with Sherman and Walker but only in small windows.

You all would destroy any Eagles RB who averaged under 4 now.

That offense had to play without Randall in 1991 and they finished 18th in points and 25th in yards. They ran for 3.1 a pop as a team.

He was The Ultimate Weapon the year before that.

 

Randall was surrounded by bad players, a good but not great TE (Jackson averaged 626 and 6 in 3 years with Marino), and the prospect of a great WR who was on drugs and needed to be fired and learn for 3 more years before he became Cris Carter. (1st 1000 yard season was his 7th in the league)

 

You can watch the fog bowl on YouTube. He threw for 400 in the fog.

Toney went offsides or illegal motion on a TD pass

someone dropped another TD pass.

They lost by 8 points.

[SkippyX]

I think the legend of Byars is based on Sega Madden and the hit on Pepper Johnson. He was a jag picked 10th overall.

Byars ran for 3.8 a pop in Miami.

 

The legend of Keith Jackson is based on him not catching the ball at Oklahoma and then becoming a good not great TE.

He averaged about 500 and 5.8 with 2 HoF QBs in Favre and Marino.

 

If you pretend the 1985-1991 Eagles O-line was anything but rancid trash then that's on you.

2 QBs are tied for getting sacked the most by LT: Randall and Jaws at 12.5.  It was a buffet for him.

https://www.sbnation.com/secret-base/22156273/nfl-philadelphia-eagles-1986-passing-sacks-randall-cunningham-ron-jaworski-dorktown

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/11/12/philadelphia-eagles-ron-jaworski-recalls-being-mentally-broken-new-york-giants-lawrence-taylor-throwback-thursday/

 

When Osi got McNabb 6 times we KNEW it was on Andy and Winston Justice.

When LT got Jaws 4 times and then Randall 3 times in the same game it was somehow Randall's fault.

[SkippyX]

There is a debate on how to get a young QB to learn the position.

One side says they sit and learn as much as they can.

The other side says play them and let them be forged in the fire.

Only Buddy Ryan said "Screw it! I'm only going to play Randall on 3rd and long behind the worst O-line in NFL history!"

 

That line gave up 104 sacks. No other line has given up 80 or more.

Keith Byars attempted 3 HB passes and even he got sacked.

The RBs ran for 3.6 ypc

Randall of course ran for 8.2 a pop.

[SkippyX]

2 years after this train wreck of an offense Randall finished 2nd in MVP voting for the 1st of 3 times in his career.

He lost out to Boomer on the Icky shuffle team, Montana after he went 31-3 as a starter from the 1988 playoffs thorough 1990 regular season, and 2k TD winning his 2nd SB.

Randall was widely recognized as an awesome player.

 

Montana and TD had probably the greatest stretches at their positions in NFL history.

He lost out to Boomer 32-22

[LacesOut]

Ok we all get it, Skippy. 😁

Randall was an exciting football talent. I respect him a ton. 

[LacesOut]

OP, 

I think the radio program you heard, part of it, was "what Eagles QB would you pick/take IF you had to win one game”. McNabb and Vick were mentioned, so was Foles obviously, but yeah, no one took Randall. 

[Diehardfan]

12 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Randall was nowhere near as good as the memories that many fans have of him. He was exciting and he had his moments, but he was never a truly elite player.

He also never had good coaches until Minny. In his time he was groundbreaking and subsequent QBs benefited from him along with OCs. Put him in the league today with that cannon and you'd probably see him differently. 

[EazyEaglez]

Randall will always have a special place in my heart because he was the QB I grew up watching most. It was amazing to see some of the things he accomplished on the field. He also went up against some of the best teams ever assembled. In the ten years he played as an Eagle like seven or eight or those teams that won the Super Bowl came from his division and all of them where from the NFC. Randall was saddled with a poor offensive line, no run game other than himself, a bad front office, a cheap owner, and terrible offensive coaching. For the most part it was Randall vs some of the best defenses in football including his own. Still it is hard to put Randall at the top of any QB list of the Eagles due to his lack of playoff victories. When Rodney Peete can go out there and get a win in the playoffs with a buffoon of a coach like Kotite, but Randall couldn't it just feels like in Philly he never could be the leader he needed to be. Randall was the "Ultimate weapon," but not the ultimate leader. It's not all on him, because his coach basically made a system where the defense hated the offense and by default Randall as well. I do sometimes wonder how that 91 season would have went if Randall didn't get hurt as bad as he did though.

[SkippyX]

I love Randall but the one game guy is clearly Foles. (unless it winds up being Hurts eventually)

His record in must win games is Brady-like.

Full season its Randall.

QB you want to trade to your divisional rival as a Trojan Horse its McNabb.

[vsptroops]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Randall will always have a special place in my heart because he was the QB I grew up watching most. It was amazing to see some of the things he accomplished on the field. He also went up against some of the best teams ever assembled. In the ten years he played as an Eagle like seven or eight or those teams that won the Super Bowl came from his division and all of them where from the NFC. Randall was saddled with a poor offensive line, no run game other than himself, a bad front office, a cheap owner, and terrible offensive coaching. For the most part it was Randall vs some of the best defenses in football including his own. Still it is hard to put Randall at the top of any QB list of the Eagles due to his lack of playoff victories. When Rodney Peete can go out there and get a win in the playoffs with a buffoon of a coach like Kotite, but Randall couldn't it just feels like in Philly he never could be the leader he needed to be. Randall was the "Ultimate weapon," but not the ultimate leader. It's not all on him, because his coach basically made a system where the defense hated the offense and by default Randall as well. I do sometimes wonder how that 91 season would have went if Randall didn't get hurt as bad as he did though.

Pretty sure that Randall won that playoff game against the Saints under Kotite. Rodney beat the Lions under Rhodes. 

[vsptroops]

15 hours ago, wrestlevessel said:

I live in Northern NJ so I don't hear Philly Sports Talk Radio but about a week and a half ago I was on vacation in Ocean City, Maryland and heard a show. They talked about Mount Rushmore of Eagles and if you would put Howie or Reid on it. They also talked about best Eagles QBs and shockingly Vick was mentioned a few times, as well as McNabb. How could not a single person mention Randall Cunningham. He was an outstanding athlete and great QB and keep in mind he had to deal with poor coaching from Buddy Ryan and Rich Kotite, and had no offensive line with no star running back. He is underrated and does not get the credit he deserves. Imagine if Randall had Reid. 

Download the Audacy app and you can listen to all the Philly sports talk you want. That's how I listen living in VA. 

[Procus]

Randall's success he achieved taught us what was missing in Philly - elite talent surrounding him on the offense combined with the maturity to take to coaching.  What could have been if Doug Scovill didn't die prematurely.

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, vsptroops said:

Pretty sure that Randall won that playoff game against the Saints under Kotite. Rodney beat the Lions under Rhodes. 

Wow so many failures I forgot about that one against the Saints. Kotite got more out of that team than Buddy ever did.

[NOTW]

2-5 playoff record as an Eagle?

Younger fans that only talk about players they've seen in their lifetime?

[Plache]

To be fair, Randall has admitted that he never studied his playbook as an Eagle.  Add that to one playoff failure after another and you get what you get.  Very exciting player to watch, but he wasn't great until he went to Minnesota and actually put in the work. 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

20 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Randall was nowhere near as good as the memories that many fans have of him. He was exciting and he had his moments, but he was never a truly elite player.

I think it’s just a situation of liking the concept of the player more than the actual player. Notice the OP didn’t actually list his accolades, he just said he saw a great athlete that had excuses for why he didn’t do better.

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

3 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I think it’s just a situation of liking the concept of the player more than the actual player. Notice the OP didn’t actually list his accolades, he just said he saw a great athlete that had excuses for why he didn’t do better.

I spent about a decade heartily defending Cunningham against repeated attacks from my father, who absolutely despised him. I, on the other hand, liked him and thought he was a good player. He was. A good player. But he was undisciplined, ran too quickly (although to his credit he was quite slippery and seemed to have an innate knack of avoiding big hits, with the exception of Bryce Paup I guess), and threw way too many interceptions. He also tended to come up small in big games. But overall, yeah, he was good and could have been great. He was ultra talented. But he wasn't great. The reasons why he wasn't great could be argued, I suppose, but I tend to think the fault was primarily his own.

I also lost some respect for him when he was forced to replace an injured Rodney Peete in a playoff game in '95 and was completely unprepared. I believe his wife was having a baby at the time and he didn't practice during the week.

[brkmsn]

22 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Keith Byars was an incredible bust. Sure, he was a decent receiver but he was the 10th overall pick. He ran for 3.4 a pop his first 5 years... as the 10th overall pick.

Byars averaged 581 and 2.2 as a receiver after his rookie year(87-92). Its not like he was Marshall Faulk or Roger Craig.

Michael Haddix was the 8th overall pick and ran for 3 a pop.

Anthoney Toney was a career 3.6 ypc RB.

The 1985-1990 Eagles RBs were rancid trash.  They eventually got better with Sherman and Walker but only in small windows.

You all would destroy any Eagles RB who averaged under 4 now.

That offense had to play without Randall in 1991 and they finished 18th in points and 25th in yards. They ran for 3.1 a pop as a team.

He was The Ultimate Weapon the year before that.

 

Randall was surrounded by bad players, a good but not great TE (Jackson averaged 626 and 6 in 3 years with Marino), and the prospect of a great WR who was on drugs and needed to be fired and learn for 3 more years before he became Cris Carter. (1st 1000 yard season was his 7th in the league)

 

You can watch the fog bowl on YouTube. He threw for 400 in the fog.

Toney went offsides or illegal motion on a TD pass

someone dropped another TD pass.

They lost by 8 points.

People look at offensive lines and sacks/pressures allowed and act like that's all that matters. Those guys we had in the late 80s couldn't run block either. Our RBs weren't trash. The blocking was. Earnest Jackson went from 4 YPC in San Diego, to 3.6 in Philly, to 4.2 in Pitt in 3 consecutive years. 

[SPIDER-MAN]

If Ryan hadn't been so enamored with making the defense the best in the league, Cunningham would have made it to at least one Superbowl. I know the Eagles had guys like Williams and Barnett, Byars, etc, but these guys weren't going to get them over the hump.

[EaglesAddict]

Randall has always been my favorite Philly QB of all time.  I'm probably biased because he was the QB during my formative years of really getting into football.  If I was to watch him now, I'd probably be a little more critical of his play, but I just have fond memories of his exciting style of play for back then.

Besides coaching, I think Randall's biggest issue was his mentality.  He...like Vick...just got by on his athleticism and strong arm and didn't put in the work to improve on the mental part of being a QB (including being a true leader).  Both Vick and Randall played the QB position better as an older vet when they finally did start putting in the work.  Too bad they didn't figure things out earlier in their careers, it could have made a world of difference.