Why No Respect for Randall Cunningham?

[wrestlevessel]

Told you guys he deserves more credit. The first 2 responses to my post were basically saying he sucked.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:28 AM, SkippyX said:

Keith Byars was an incredible bust. Sure, he was a decent receiver but he was the 10th overall pick. He ran for 3.4 a pop his first 5 years... as the 10th overall pick.

I understand the sentiment, but I'd have a hard time putting him into the 'Bust' category. As a RB alone, I can't argue that he didn't produce like we'd like. But overall, in his 7 years with the Eagles, he averaged almost 900 total yards per season. Not HOF worthy, but not Bust worthy, either. 

The Pepper Johnson block alone would exempt him from 'bust' rankings... 

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, SPIDER-MAN said:

If Ryan hadn't been so enamored with making the defense the best in the league, Cunningham would have made it to at least one Superbowl. I know the Eagles had guys like Williams and Barnett, Byars, etc, but these guys weren't going to get them over the hump.

I'm not sure I'm getting the connection. Ryan used a lot of draft capital on offense, including the 1st rd pick he traded for Solt and the 4th rd pick used for Cris Carter in the supplemental draft. Once again, free agency wasn't an option like today. For a couple years, they had the "Plan B" in effect where they got scrubs like Mark Higgs. It is my opinion that had Braman not fired Ryan and supported him instead, that team would have stayed intact and dallas wouldn't have had any of those Super Bowls with Aikman. 

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	wAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1990	1	Ben Smith	22	DB	1996	0	0	3	17	57	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	6	1.0	Georgia
1990	2	Mike Bellamy	50	WR	1990	0	0	0	0	6	0	0	0	0	0			0			0			Illinois
1990	3	Fred Barnett	77	WR	1997	0	1	6	44	96	0	0	0	0	0	4	-2	0	361	5362	32			Arkansas St.
1990	5	Calvin Williams	133	WR	1996	0	0	6	33	100	0	0	0	0	0	5	29	0	308	3925	35			Purdue
1990	6	Kevin Thompson	162	DB		0	0	0																Oklahoma
1990	7	Terry Strouf	189	T		0	0	0																Wisconsin–LaCrosse
1990	8	Curt Dykes	217	T		0	0	0																Oregon
1990	9	Cecil Gray	244	DE	1995	0	0	0	13	45	0	0	0	0	0			0			0			North Carolina
1990	10	Orlando Adams	273	DT		0	0	0																Jacksonville St.
1990	11	John Hudson	294	G	2000	0	0	0	7	139	0	0	0	0	0			0			0			Auburn
1990	11	Tyrone Watson	300	WR		0	0	0																Tennessee St.
1990	12	Judd Garrett	327	RB		0	0	0																Princeton
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	wAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1989	2	Jessie Small	49	LB	1992	0	0	2	12	53	0	0	0	0	0			0			0		3.5	East. Kentucky
1989	3	Robert Drummond	76	RB	1991	0	0	0	4	36	0	0	0	0	0	52	187	3	22	219	1			Syracuse
1989	3	Britt Hager	81	LB	1997	0	0	0	17	121	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	3	2.0	Texas
1989	6	Heath Sherman	162	RB	1993	0	0	3	20	76	0	0	0	0	0	537	2130	10	75	608	4			Texas A&M-Kingsville
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	wAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1988	1	Keith Jackson	13	TE	1996	3	5	7	43	129	0	0	0	0	0			0	441	5283	49			Oklahoma
1988	2	Eric Allen	30	DB	2001	1	6	14	96	217	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	54	3.0	Arizona St.
1988	3	Matt Patchan	64	T		0	0	0																Miami (FL)
1988	5	Eric Everett	122	DB	1992	0	0	0	8	75	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	8	1.0	Texas Tech
1988	6	Don McPherson	149	QB		0	0	0																Syracuse
1988	6	Rob Sterling	160	DB		0	0	0																Maine
1988	7	Todd White	176	WR		0	0	0																Cal State-Fullerton
1988	8	David Smith	207	RB		0	0	0																Western Kentucky
1988	10	Joe Schuster	261	DT		0	0	0																Iowa
1988	11	Izel Jenkins	288	DB	1993	0	0	1	13	86	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	4	1.0	North Carolina St.
1988	12	Steve Kaufusi	319	DE	1990	0	0	0	2	32	0	0	0	0	0			0			0			BYU
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	wAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1987	1	Jerome Brown	9	DT	1991	2	2	5	51	76	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	3	29.5	Miami (FL)
1987	3	Ben Tamburello	65	G	1990	0	0	0	9	50	0	0	0	0	0			0			0			Auburn
1987	4	Byron Evans	93	LB	1994	0	0	6	45	113	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	13	3.5	Arizona
1987	5	David Alexander	121	C	1996	0	0	7	47	131	0	0	0	0	0			0	2	1	0			Tulsa
1987	6	Ron Moten	149	LB		0	0	0																Florida
1987	6	Chris Pike	158	DT	1991	0	0	1	7	32	0	0	0	0	0			0			0		1.0	Tulsa
1987	7	Brian Williams	177	T		0	0	0																Central Michigan
1987	9	Ken Lambiotte	232	QB		0	0	0																William & Mary
1987	10	Paul Carberry	260	DT		0	0	0																Oregon St.
1987	12	Bobby Morse	316	RB	1991	0	0	0	1	38	0	0	0	0	0	11	64	0	1	8	0			Michigan St.
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	wAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1986	1	Keith Byars	10	RB	1998	0	1	12	60	189	6	13	119	6	1	865	3109	23	610	5661	31			Ohio St.
1986	2	Anthony Toney	37	RB	1990	0	0	4	23	67	0	1	0	0	0	639	2294	14	122	1031	5			Texas A&M
1986	2	Alonzo Johnson	48	LB	1987	0	0	1	6	18	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	3	1.0	Florida
1986	4	Matt Darwin	106	T	1990	0	0	4	21	61	0	0	0	0	0			0			0			Texas A&M
1986	5	Ray Criswell	121	P	1988	0	0	0	2	19	0	0	0	0	0	3	0	0			0			Florida
1986	5	Dan McMillen	128	DE	1987	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0			0			0		1.0	Colorado
1986	6	Bob Landsee	149	C	1987	0	0	0	2	9	0	0	0	0	0			0			0			Wisconsin
1986	7	Corn Redick	169	WR	1987	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0			0	1	18	0			Cal State-Fullerton
1986	7	Byron Lee	176	LB	1987	0	0	0	1	6	0	0	0	0	0			0			0		1.0	Ohio St.
1986	8	Seth Joyner	208	LB	1998	0	3	11	84	195	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	24	52.0	Texas-El Paso
1986	9	Clyde Simmons	233	DE	2000	2	2	12	89	236	0	0	0	0	0			0			0	3	121.5	Western Carolina
1986	10	Junior Tautalatasi	261	RB	1989	0	0	0	7	51	0	0	0	0	0	97	275	0	88	706	2			Washington St.
1986	11	Steve Bogdalek	288	G		0	0	0																Michigan St.
1986	12	Reggie Singletary	315	G	1990	0	0	2	17	61	0	0	0	0	0			0	1	-11	0		1.0	North Carolina St.
1986	12	Bobby Howard	325	RB	1988	0	0	0	3	20	0	0	0	0	0	60	210	2	15	183	0			Indiana

[wrestlevessel]

Yea Buddy would make sure Aikman gets injured lol.

[EricAllenPick6]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:10 AM, SkippyX said:

Buddy should be in the HoF for his defensive mind but on offense he said "Go make 5 plays for me, Randall!"

Buddy's perfect game was always a 2-0 victory.  Defense gets a shutout and a safety.  

On 7/9/2023 at 1:26 AM, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Randall was nowhere near as good as the memories that many fans have of him. He was exciting and he had his moments, but he was never a truly elite player.

Elite?  Maybe not.  He played a style of QB that revolutionized the role of the QB in the NFL.  You'd question whether Vick would have been drafted 1/1 if not for guys like Randall.  I put him on the Mt. Rushmore of Eagles just for that fact alone.

I also think if he stayed healthy in 1990, the Eagles would have been super bowl champs.  Unfortunately for him (& us), our offensive line was dog water (as the kids would say.)

On 7/10/2023 at 1:30 AM, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I also lost some respect for him when he was forced to replace an injured Rodney Peete in a playoff game in '95 and was completely unprepared. I believe his wife was having a baby at the time and he didn't practice during the week.

Oh man, I remember that game.  Very sad.  I think we all knew it was the end after that game.

[EricAllenPick6]

Can I also ask why Vick gets so much love?  He played a few years here where this team was good / not great, then he moved on.  He has 1 pro bowl year, we went to the playoffs once with him as a starter and we lost.  He's not even close to my Mt. Rushmore of Eagles.

[dawkins4prez]

He belongs in the HoF.  The stats, accolades and achievements are borderline, but his importance historically to the modern black QB will eventually get him over the hump.

[EaglePhan1986]

I only remember him from the Vikings

[SkippyX]

1990, Jim McMahon comes in for a series in the playoffs and goes 0-3, no problem. He sure as hell did not play like he was prepared.

1995 to present, people don't have the slightest clue about Randall and that playoff game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1995/12/29/cunningham-will-leave-if-baby-is-due-to-arrive/8fc0d017-1b36-4c75-9564-b40d7592c0e6/

Notice the bit about Cunningham getting MORE practice than normal for a backup.

He said if the baby was coming then as a backup QB he was going. This is common now. He was a HoF QB benched for a terrible QB because his moron coach was inflexible.

Lane Johnson left 2 years ago for mental health. He is soft as butter compared to Randall who only discussed the possibility of leaving.

 

The Rhodes WCO was pathetic and a terrible fit for Cunningham. They were playing in Dallas vs a 3x SB team juggernaut that added Deion Sanders.

Peete had 8 TDs to 14 picks that year as the starter. That offense was Ricky Watters and a pile of trash. The Lions chocking hard did not change that.

Watters ran for 3 a pop in that playoff game. Did he read the playbook?

The D gave up 155 rushing and 100+ passer rating. Did they all skip practice?

The Eagles lost 34-12 in Dallas earlier in the year. Peete had a 26.6 rating. Did Randall hold the clipboard wrong leading to that blowout? Was Holly Robinson pregnant that week?

Yeah, that's all Randall's fault if you are biased and simple.

 

BTW, 1995 Barnett, Williams, and Carpenter combined for 1671 yards and 7 TDs.

2001 Pinkston, Thrash, and Freddie combined for 1742 and 13 TDs and people gnashed teeth about them for 20 years.

2002 Pinkston, Thrash, and Freeman combined for 2033 and 17 TDs

 

[opa-opa]

I think Randalls best years were marred by bad luck, a horribly imbalanced roster, and suspect coaching, all that led to a wildly inconsistent bunch of games and legacy...and that goes for the whole team during those years not just Randall. 

[Nivraga]

On 7/9/2023 at 6:17 PM, EazyEaglez said:

Wow so many failures I forgot about that one against the Saints. Kotite Bud Carson got more out of that team than Buddy Ryan ever did.

FYP

[Procus]

On 7/9/2023 at 6:17 PM, EazyEaglez said:

Wow so many failures I forgot about that one against the Saints. Kotite got more out of that team than Buddy ever did.

Kotite was a crap head coach who made one brilliant move - hiring Bud Carson.

[SkippyX]

Kotite was getting murdered by the Saints (Saints 20 Eagles 7 in the 3rd quarter)  and 2 things happened.

The Reggie White Stuff.  He sent a TE into a FB who hit the RB and forced him outside and backwards into a loss on a crucial 3rd and short

He tossed about 500 pounds of humans right at the RB and destroyed that possession..

Randall went nuts after that.

 

At Eagles 24 Saints 20 the D then got a safety and clear HoF CB Eric Allen pick 6   (Allen is a Hall of Famer even if the voters are not HoF quality)

This was a 13 point 2nd half comeback but it was on the same day as 35-3 in Buffalo so no one remembers it much.

[opa-opa]

4 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Kotite was getting murdered by the Saints (Saints 20 Eagles 7 in the 3rd quarter)  and 2 things happened.

The Reggie White Stuff.  He sent a TE into a FB who hit the RB and forced him outside and backwards into a loss on a crucial 3rd and short

He tossed about 500 pounds of humans right at the RB and destroyed that possession..

Randall went nuts after that.

 

At Eagles 24 Saints 20 the D then got a safety and clear HoF CB Eric Allen pick 6   (Allen is a Hall of Famer even if the voters are not HoF quality)

This was a 13 point 2nd half comeback but it was on the same day as 35-3 in Buffalo so no one remembers it much.

I remember that was the Vai Sikahema game? At least Kotite won a playoff game for us....Buddy couldnt even win one.

[Alphagrand]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:50 PM, wrestlevessel said:

I live in Northern NJ so I don't hear Philly Sports Talk Radio but about a week and a half ago I was on vacation in Ocean City, Maryland and heard a show. They talked about Mount Rushmore of Eagles and if you would put Howie or Reid on it. They also talked about best Eagles QBs and shockingly Vick was mentioned a few times, as well as McNabb. How could not a single person mention Randall Cunningham. He was an outstanding athlete and great QB and keep in mind he had to deal with poor coaching from Buddy Ryan and Rich Kotite, and had no offensive line with no star running back. He is underrated and does not get the credit he deserves. Imagine if Randall had Reid. 

Were you watching football during this time period?  Championship defense that was held back by the offense, which was led by a great athlete who was a subpar QB.

Put me in the category of Franklin’s dad — I wouldn’t say ‘despised’, but it was truly disheartening to watch an excellent team with a QB who wasnt even professional enough to study the playbook.  

[Procus]

On 7/12/2023 at 12:05 AM, SkippyX said:

The Eagles lost 34-12 in Dallas earlier in the year. Peete had a 26.6 rating. Did Randall hold the clipboard wrong leading to that blowout? Was Holly Robinson pregnant that week?

Yeah, that's all Randall's fault if you are biased and simple.

Remember that game like yesterday.  Actually went to Dallas to watch it.  Was during the blizzard of 96.  We were snowed out of Philly.  It was also the coldest game ever played at Texas Stadium (which was a dump and a few steps below the Vet).

The Eagles would have lost anyway because they couldn't stop Dallas.  Deion Sanders also scored on a punt return.  Thing is, on the opening drive, Rodney was driving the team down the field.  (Remember, this is the same team that blew out the Lions at the Vet the week before).  But Rodney got hit - sustained a concussion - and the rest is what it is.  Eagles offense could not get it going that day once Randall went under center.  It is what it is.

[Ace Nova]

I’m likely biased but had Randall had a QB whisperer type of coach like Andy Reid and played in the modern NFL, he would likely have been a perennial All -Pro imo. 

[SkippyX]

10 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Were you watching football during this time period?  Championship defense that was held back by the offense, which was led by a great athlete who was a subpar QB.

Put me in the category of Franklin’s dad — I wouldn’t say ‘despised’, but it was truly disheartening to watch an excellent team with a QB who wasnt even professional enough to study the playbook.  

Its clear that you were not watching.. The D had major holes almost every year. The 2nd CB had the nickname toast for a while. Year in year out they had some of the worst CB depth in the league.

• 1987 D  25  23   Offense  12  10
• 1988 D  15  27   Offense  5  10
• 1989 D   5  8      Offense  13  12
• 1990 D  12 12    Offense  3  3    (Ultimate Weapon year)
• 1991 D   5  1      Offense  18 25   with a bunch of white, 'playbook studying' QB's.
• 1992  D   6  6     Offense   5  7 
• 1993  D  19  17   Offense  17  15   (Randall was player of the month in September and then broke his leg)
  • 363 and 28 on O with Randall and putrid without him with playbook reading Bubster and O'Brien.
  • That offense was on a pace to finish 2 2 and they did not score 20 in the next 9 games and failed to score more than 10 in 6 of those 10.
• 1994  D   11  4    Offense  17  14  
• 1995  D   11  5    Offense 21 25 (Rodney Peete)

From 87-95 Randall was 61-37 as a starter with HoF level stats. His replacements (non-strike games) were 23-19 with garbage stats but lots of playbook reading on the weekends.

SB winner McMahon went 8-3 with that 1991 D but he has 12 TDs and 13 picks as an Eagles QB

Any semi-conscious reading of the data makes it obvious that Randall was elite and the supporting cast on offense was trash. You can't read your way out of that.

His 2 so-called Championship level D's in 1989 and 1992 gave up 142 and 147 rushing to RBs in the playoff losses.

The Eagles backs ran for 56 and 41 in those games.

 

He got to the Vikings and he went 13-1 with the 1 2 offense and a 6 13 D. They missed the SB on a gimme shank.

Ignorant clowns will cry Moss and Carter. Randall had 34 TDs to 10 picks with a 100+ on that team. Johnson and Fielder combined for 7 and 6 and a rating in the 80s.

[SkippyX]

There are actually people who think Randall should have lit up the Rams with 56 yards of run support and a 3 WR set of Red Zone specialist Carter, Trash Man, and Ron Johnson at WR.

Those guys combined for 1109 yards that year. Ellard (1382) and Anderson (1146) each had more by themselves.

Bell had 1137 and 15 rushing. The Eagles had 3.4 ypc crap.

But Keith Jackson had 138 more yards and 1 more TD than the Rams' Pete Holohan that season

The better D was facing Randall in

• 1988 - Bears ranked 1 2
• 1992 - Saints 1 2 and Cowboys 5 1
• 1995 - Cowboys 3 9
• 1997 - NYG 3 18 (comeback win) vs 19 29 Vikings and SF 3 1
• 1998 - Atlanta 4 8

Randall got one tomato can in the playoffs in his entire career. He put up 41 points vs Arizona.

 

Better teams win in the playoffs and the first time Randall had a better team in the playoffs was New Orleans. Even that was close. 

For some reason everyone wants to pretend McNabb's teams were not as good as they were and that Randall's were way better than they were.

Here are the D rankings of the 5 McNabb NFCCG teams.

• 2 7
• 2 4
• 7 20
• 2 10
• 4 3

Lets pretend the Buddy/Kotite D's were better. 

 

[SkippyX]

BTW in that fog bowl the Bears non-QBs ran for 166 and the Eagles non-QBs ran for 40.  What page in the playbook fixes that with a few hours of study on a Saturday?

That Championship level D got run over in the playoffs every year outside of Reggie eating the Saints run game.

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

2 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

I’m likely biased but had Randall had a QB whisperer type of coach like Andy Reid and played in the modern NFL, he would likely have been a perennial All -Pro imo. 

I agree.  Although Reid sort of screwed his QBs over a bit by not running the ball enough.  

[SB52]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:26 PM, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Randall was nowhere near as good as the memories that many fans have of him. He was exciting and he had his moments, but he was never a truly elite player.

He won an MVP.

EDIT: In one of the greatest QB seasons of all time he finished 2nd to Terrell Davis. I was sure he won that year.

[SkippyX]

1 hour ago, SB52 said:

He won an MVP.

He was 2nd in MVP voting 3 times. By definition that is elite.

[MF POON]

Cunningham is the reason I'm an Eagles fan. I don't understand the lack of respect, but our fanbase isn't really the best when it comes to the subject of QB's lol.

[Talonblood]

Randall was a  great player who was fun to watch. Nuff said. Not everyone wins the Super Bowl. He is a Philly icon, except to those who aren't really Philly.