October 11, 20231 yr 5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Biden agrees with you that we shouldn't put boots on the ground...unless of course Biden visits the area and then of course you'll accuse them of putting boots on the ground since the CiC has put his shoes literally on the ground. How about we aid them as they need it since they're our ally in a strategic region and they were attacked by a brutal authoritarian regime? Works for Ukraine too, unless you think Ukrainian women and children aren't worth our time. Lol I still love this narrative."Its only the Secret Service!"...even though leaks have proven otherwise And yes they're actually an established ally. Glad you acknowledge that critical point. "Aid them as they need it" isnt really saying much. I fully support Palestine being relegated to the dust bins of history. Maybe we should stop sending loads of cash to Iran and working with their spies? What do you think?
October 11, 20231 yr 6 hours ago, paco said: Will you two just F and get it over with already @Dave Moss sad faced this post. Don't worry Dave, I'm sure @DrPhilly will be gentle. Maybe even spit on it first.
October 11, 20231 yr 3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Lol I still love this narrative."Its only the Secret Service!"...even though leaks have proven otherwise And yes they're actually an established ally. Glad you acknowledge that critical point. Why would I not acknowledge that? Who do you think I am, Tucker Carlson? And yes, we also protect our embassy over there, which we obviously do everywhere. No one needs leaks to tell us that. It's public information.
October 11, 20231 yr 15 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: Also, I'm not sure how free their elections are, but their citizens have voted Hamas in power for a long time knowing what they are, just like the lady in the video above. From my understanding, Hamas was voted into power in 2006 and they haven’t had an election since. I don’t know how ‘free’ or ‘fair’ that election was.
October 11, 20231 yr 34 minutes ago, paco said: So..... did she get arrested? She allegedly tried to backtrack
October 11, 20231 yr 37 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: Grant laid seige to Vicksburg for 47 days. No food or water was allowed in. Re-supply was blocked. The Confederates utimately gave their unconditional surrender. Now, Grant was not at war with Vicksburg citizens. But yet the siege worked. Lincoln hailed it at as a great success as the Mississippi came under Union control once again. They did shell the city but no troops entered the city. I guess in Bernies world, Grant is a war criminal and they should have just let the Confederates win becase of the harm to civilians. Can anyone name a war where civilians were not killed? The unfortunate reality that is hard for peaceniks to accept is that the quickest way to end a war and minimize casualties is by being effective and brutal when waging war. If you pu$$y-foot around too much, you just prolong the war and cost more lives.
October 11, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, VanHammersly said: Where you are on "NOT. OUR. WAR." these days, Mike? Here's a handy guide for future reference:
October 11, 20231 yr 57 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: not sure if this was posted already, if so sorry for the repost. I missed the first half of this thread and I'm not reading through that. damn what a piece of sh-t human being.
October 11, 20231 yr 17 minutes ago, paco said: TL;DR, Hamas supporter I like how her "follow up" doesn't even make her look any better. "I condone Hamas' 'ambition' and their goal. I just don't condone the ways they go about trying to accomplish that goal, even though they make it very clear that this is the way they are going to go about executing their ambitions and goals and even though these two things are not separable at all, I'm going to pretend that they are".
October 11, 20231 yr 2 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: I like how her "follow up" doesn't even make her look any better. "I condone Hamas' 'ambition' and their goal. I just don't condone the ways they go about trying to accomplish that goal, even though they make it very clear that this is the way they are going to go about executing their ambitions and goals and even though these two things are not separable at all, I'm going to pretend that they are". It was basically "I'm morally right, he tried to make me look bad so really, I'm the victim here" word salad.
October 11, 20231 yr "I condone that serial rapist and mugger's ambition to get rich and have relations with women. I mean, who doesn't want more money and who doesn't want to have relations with women? These are rightful goals. Now, I don't condone him jumping women in the street and beating the piss out of them, stealing their money, and then raping them. And there were those 2 or 3 women he ended up killing. I don't condone that he did that either. But this is such a complex and complicated issue that can't be broken down into a simple yes/no do you condone or condemn this man. And any attempt to try to put me in a corner and answer that is a disingenuous trick!" - Jumanah Imad Albahri
October 11, 20231 yr 29 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Here's a handy guide for future reference: Didnt I start this convo off by saying OIF and OEF we're not our wars? Tons of whiteys in both locations. Good try
October 11, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Mike31mt said: Didnt I start this convo off by saying OIF and OEF we're not our wars? Tons of whiteys in both locations. Good try Oh right, because the Taliban and Hussein's regime were as white as they come. Good call.
October 11, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Didnt I start this convo off by saying OIF and OEF we're not our wars? Tons of whiteys in both locations. Good try No, but you have said it before. Are you in denial again?
October 11, 20231 yr 41 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: She allegedly tried to backtrack this doesn't really seem to be much of a backtrack. she basically claims she was emotional at the end and didn't "understand" that she was saying she's for the claim that having all the Jews in one place to kill makes it more convenient. it really isn't hard to thread the needle here. I can desire both that Palestinians get a nation state and agency over their own destiny, and that innocent Palestinian civilians be treated with human dignity and not denied basic human rights, while also believing that Hamas (and many Palestinians that support them) is a terrorist organization whose stated goal is the elimination of Israel and the Jews that populate it. I can also believe that Netanyahu and his ilk have been far too aggressive in marginalizing Palestinians, and that forcefully removing them from their homes and creating settlements to occupy former Palestinian lands may very well be casus belli, while also condemning the Hamas led attack that resulted in 100s if not 1000s of innocent Jewish lives lost. Israel has its fair share of sins. And the actions it has taken to marginalize the Palestinian people have often gone too far, mainly because Hamas and the Palestinian people are not one in the same any more than Jewish settlers can be classified as enemy combatants and thus considered by Hamas legitimate targets for military operations. The whole thing is a mess. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Israel is often a crazed gun-toting neighbor who's been pushed too far. It can certainly be argued that Israel is how it is because of how hostile Palestine has been to them, but nonetheless there's a lot of innocent Palestinian blood on its ledgers as well. The above is IMHO all true, and why it's been such an intractable problem. If Israel proceeded in good faith with a softer hand, Hamas is not going to change its stance on the extermination of Jews and elimination of Israel as a state. Excising Hamas and the terroristic sentiment from Palestine would require both a desire and a sufficiently powerful political movement within both the Arab world and Palestine itself, and that also isn't on the horizon. I got nothing. It sucks.
October 11, 20231 yr Author 5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: this doesn't really seem to be much of a backtrack definitely not, though when I watched my take was that she was referring to the general question of "for or against Hamas" and not anything to do with rounding any one up btw - very nice overall post
October 11, 20231 yr 5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: this doesn't really seem to be much of a backtrack. she basically claims she was emotional at the end and didn't "understand" that she was saying she's for the claim that having all the Jews in one place to kill makes it more convenient. it really isn't hard to thread the needle here. I can desire both that Palestinians get a nation state and agency over their own destiny, and that innocent Palestinian civilians be treated with human dignity and not denied basic human rights, while also believing that Hamas (and many Palestinians that support them) is a terrorist organization whose stated goal is the elimination of Israel and the Jews that populate it. I can also believe that Netanyahu and his ilk have been far too aggressive in marginalizing Palestinians, and that forcefully removing them from their homes and creating settlements to occupy former Palestinian lands may very well be casus belli, while also condemning the Hamas led attack that resulted in 100s if not 1000s of innocent Jewish lives lost. Israel has its fair share of sins. And the actions it has taken to marginalize the Palestinian people have often gone too far, mainly because Hamas and the Palestinian people are not one in the same any more than Jewish settlers can be classified as enemy combatants and thus considered by Hamas legitimate targets for military operations. The whole thing is a mess. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Israel is often a crazed gun-toting neighbor who's been pushed too far. It can certainly be argued that Israel is how it is because of how hostile Palestine has been to them, but nonetheless there's a lot of innocent Palestinian blood on its ledgers as well. The above is IMHO all true, and why it's been such an intractable problem. If Israel proceeded in good faith with a softer hand, Hamas is not going to change its stance on the extermination of Jews and elimination of Israel as a state. Excising Hamas and the terroristic sentiment from Palestine would require both a desire and a sufficiently powerful political movement within both the Arab world and Palestine itself, and that also isn't on the horizon. I got nothing. It sucks. She received backlash after the "for it" comment. Wasn't able to see if she was expelled but a bunch of groups and the university released statements saying she doesn't represent their views
October 11, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Mike030270 said: She received backlash after the "for it" comment. Wasn't able to see if she was expelled but a bunch of groups and the university released statements saying she doesn't represent their views As well she should have. My meandering post obscured my point, but the point is that you can support innocent Palestinians whose homes are being bulldozed while also condemning Hamas. You can "share a goal" with Hamas in that you want to see a Palestinian state that provides for the health and welfare of its citizens if we're going to get pie-in-the-sky, but what makes Hamas Hamas is that it has a stated goal of wiping Israel off the map and conducts terrorist operations to support that goal. If you can't point-blank deny that you support Hamas, you're simply wrong. It's not that hard.
October 11, 20231 yr 30 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Oh right, because the Taliban and Hussein's regime were as white as they come. Good call. Are you drunk? Im saying the opposite of what youre saying
October 11, 20231 yr 28 minutes ago, Toastrel said: No, but you have said it before. Are you in denial again? If youre going to call me racist then come out and say it. I have no idea what youre talking about.
October 11, 20231 yr 5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: If youre going to call me racist then come out and say it. I have no idea what youre talking about. You previously stated in other threads that those two wars you mentioned, were not our wars. I am not surprised you are clueless. That seems your SOP.
October 11, 20231 yr In OIF, our troops weren’t counter battery firing against the insurgents lobbing mortars into our compounds. Reason being that the insurgents were setting up the tubes in areas surrounded by civilians. My grandfather said they should counter battery fire anyway, and eventually it would get to the point where the civilians would kick the ish out of any insurgent trying to set up mortars or rockets. He was basing that off his experience in Vietnam (civil affairs and psychological operations). The Palestinians are finding out the hard way that they should have put up some resistance when Hamas was stashing arms in hospitals and mosques.
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