3 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

the need for these bailouts is because of the tariffs, not biden.

well thankfully argentina didn't just turn around and sell a bunch of soy to china.

The need for the tariffs is years of letting our country get taken by China

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Yeah, we disagree on it. We'll see who's right long-term.

We can disagree about the long-term impacts of tariffs sure, but not who actually pays tariffs . That's just the definition of the word man. China doesn't pay squat, the importer does primarily and the consumer does secondarily. So in your scenario American importers and consumers are paying to keep the farmers afloat. That's not really debatable.

10 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Yeah, we disagree on it. We'll see who's right long-term.

You're disagreeing with facts. China doesn't "pay" tariffs. Like....at all. You do know the tariffs come out of the pockets of Americans. Literally. Please tell me you at least know that.

4 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

You're disagreeing with facts. China doesn't "pay" tariffs. Like....at all. You do know the tariffs come out of the pockets of Americans. Literally. Please tell me you at least know that.

The mass hypnosis is a thing. It's like they know, but can't say it out loud or even type it. A bonkers level of mind control.

14 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

The need for the tariffs is years of letting our country get taken by China

I mean yeah, Bernie Sanders was saying that for decades. Ya'll used to crucify him for it up until your gov'mint mandated lobotomies.

Maga, he's more inspiring than George Patton. LOL.

10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

We can disagree about the long-term impacts of tariffs sure, but not who actually pays tariffs . That's just the definition of the word man. China doesn't pay squat, the importer does primarily and the consumer does secondarily. So in your scenario American importers and consumers are paying to keep the farmers afloat. That's not really debatable.

5 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

You're disagreeing with facts. China doesn't "pay" tariffs. Like....at all. You do know the tariffs come out of the pockets of Americans. Literally. Please tell me you at least know that.

Tariffs don't always hit our wallets because foreign exporters lower their prices to keep selling here. They can't afford to lose our huge market. Data from 2018-2019 shows they ate over 90 percent of the tariff costs bringing in billions without taxing our people. It also boosts American jobs by protecting our industries. So yeah it is debatable. You all want to kvetch so have fun. We'll see what happens.

https://taxfoundation.org/blog/who-pays-tariffs/

Notes foreign firms absorbed some burden

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Tariffs don't always hit our wallets because foreign exporters lower their prices to keep selling here. They can't afford to lose our huge market. Data from 2018-2019 shows they ate over 90 percent of the tariff costs bringing in billions without taxing our people. It also boosts American jobs by protecting our industries. So yeah it is debatable. You all want to kvetch so have fun. We'll see what happens.

https://taxfoundation.org/blog/who-pays-tariffs/

It is not debatable who pays the tariffs, when Trump touts a number collected it is 100% collected from US importers. On top of that the Data from 2019 when the effective rate was about 2% is completely and utterly useless for calculating what foreign exporters are lowering their prices to accommodate the hikes . Every single study on the current tariffs says foreign exporters are eating <20%. You know this and pretend not to because you have been mind wiped.

Just now, dawkins4prez said:

It is not debatable who pays the tariffs. Data from 2019 when the effective rate was about 2% is completely and utterly useless for today's rates. Every single study on the current tariffs says foreign exporters are eating <20%. You know this and pretend not to because you have been mind wiped.

It's not even worth it. The tariff for common sense is too high for him to import.

1 minute ago, dawkins4prez said:

It is not debatable who pays the tariffs. Data from 2019 when the effective rate was about 2% is completely and utterly useless for today's rates. Every single study on the current tariffs says foreign exporters are eating <20%. You know this and pretend not to because you have been mind wiped.

Whatever. Dismissing 2019 data ignores that core market forces hold up today. Foreign exporters still cut prices to cling to our market.

1 minute ago, Paul852 said:

It's not even worth it. The tariff for common sense is too high for him to import.

Awesome. Guess we are moving on then.

Christmas is around the corner. Ugly sweater options?

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Whatever. Dismissing 2019 data ignores that core market forces hold up today. Foreign exporters still cut prices to cling to our market.

Go check out some of the bills people are posting from UPS/Fedex/DHL regarding their tariff charges. We (Americans) are footing the bill right now.

2 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Go check out some of the bills people are posting from UPS/Fedex/DHL regarding their tariff charges. We (Americans) are footing the bill right now.

Goldman Sachs said we have only been hit with 25% so far. They think it may go up because of China but Trump will counter and the game continues.

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Whatever. Dismissing 2019 data ignores that core market forces hold up today. Foreign exporters still cut prices to cling to our market.

Not whatever. When Trump says we made trillions or gazillions from tariffs , 100% of that money comes from US importers and Trump is LYING every day that it is paid by exporters. That's a FACT, you know its a fact and refuse to acknowledge it because you are a weak minded cultist.

It is a separate matter altogether how much of the tariff gets passed on to the consumer. Foreign exporters are eating 10-20% by lowering their cost, US importers were eating most of the rest at first and are incrementally passing that other 80-90% on to the consumer. Those are the facts, if you want to defend tariffs defend them as what they are , a TAX INCREASE to fund the US government and punish US consumers from buying foreign goods and supply chains.

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Goldman Sachs said we have only been hit with 25% so far. They think it may go up because of China but Trump will counter and the game continues.

lol, wut? People are getting charged the 125% on their shipments every day. Packages aren't getting through customs unless people pay. How are you this naive?

Just now, Paul852 said:

lol, wut? People are getting charged the 125% on their shipments every day. Packages aren't getting through customs unless people pay. How are you this naive?

Cool. I'm shocked we see this from different angles and perspectives.

13 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Tariffs don't always hit our wallets because foreign exporters lower their prices to keep selling here. They can't afford to lose our huge market. Data from 2018-2019 shows they ate over 90 percent of the tariff costs bringing in billions without taxing our people. It also boosts American jobs by protecting our industries. So yeah it is debatable. You all want to kvetch so have fun. We'll see what happens.

https://taxfoundation.org/blog/who-pays-tariffs/

Notes foreign firms absorbed some burden

There is ZERO evidence to support foreign exporters eating 90% of the cost of the current tariffs dude c'mon.

Literally from the link you just posted:

Historically, economists have found that foreign firms absorbed some of the burden of tariffs by lowering their prices, resulting in a combination of foreign businesses and domestic firms and consumers sharing the burden of tariffs. In contrast to past studies, however, recent studies have found the Trump tariffs were passed almost entirely through to US firms or final consumers.

• Economists Pablo Fajgelbaum, Pinelopi Goldberg, Patrick Kennedy, and Amit Khandelwal examinedthe tariffs on washing machines, solar panels, aluminum, steel, and goods from the European Union and China imposed in 2018 and 2019. They found that US firms and final consumers bore the entire burden of tariffs and estimated a net loss to the US economy of $16 billion annually, including more than $114 billion in losses to firms and consumers, offset by small gains to protected producers and revenue gains to the government.

• Economists Mary Amiti, Stephen J. Redding, and David E. Weinstein found nearly complete pass-throughfor the tariffs, noting that "US tariffs continue to be almost entirely borne by US firms and consumers.” Some differences emerged across product types. For instance, for steel, the authors found that an initial pass-through of 100 percent fell to 50 percent a year after the tariff was applied. Foreign exporters—mostly in the European Union, South Korea, and Japan—lowered their steel prices somewhat, but US firms and consumers still paid higher prices than they would have without the tariffs.

• A recent United States International Trade Commission (USITC) report also confirmed near complete pass-through to import prices. USITC found that imported steel and aluminum prices rose by 22 percent and 8 percent, respectively, following the tariffs. For China 301 tariffs, US importers absorbed the costs of the tariffs through a combination of less favorable margins for sellers and higher prices for consumers or downstream buyers.

• Researchby economists Aaron Flaaen, Ali Hortaçsu, and Felix Tintelnot found washing machine prices increased by about $86 per unit in the months following tariffs—and dryer prices increased too, by $92 per unit, even though dryers were not subject to the tariffs. Other research has also supported the finding. 

• Economists Sebastien Houde and Wenjun Wang found that a $1 increase in tariffs on solar panels increased the final price of an installed solar panel system by $1.34. As the authors noted, “[m]anufacturers and installers thus over-shift the burden of the trade tariffs on US consumer.” Over-shifting can occur when domestic firms have "market power,” which enables them to raise prices above costs and increase profits.

You quoted the first sentence and ignored the "but" 🤣

Just now, Diehardfan said:

Cool. I'm shocked we see this from different angles and perspectives.

There isn't a different perspective to facts. If you order something directly from China right now, YOU pay the tariff. ALL of it. That's not a debate.

Welcome to another day of TDS crying bout tariffs. Orange man bad. We doomed. You are dumb. We know better. Got it. We can move on.

Just now, Diehardfan said:

Welcome to another day of TDS crying bout tariffs. Orange man bad. We doomed. You are dumb. We know better. Got it. We can move on.

Don't do that. Just admit you are wrong and Americans pay the tariffs. Honestly, read some of the discussions here to educate yourself of what people actually after to deal with. Here's a perfect example:

It doesn't need to be an argument. We're just helping you understand what you clearly don't understand.

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Welcome to another day of TDS crying bout tariffs. Orange man bad. We doomed. You are dumb. We know better. Got it. We can move on.

It would be awesome to engage in a conversation about the effectiveness and merits of tariffs, but that's impossible with someone who refuses to acknowledge the most elementary principles of how they work.

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Welcome to another day of TDS crying bout tariffs. Orange man bad. We doomed. You are dumb. We know better. Got it. We can move on.

You posted a link that refutes your own point my guy. At least try to make it a challenge for us calling you an idiot.

Methinks it might be time for you to pretend you're off golfing for the afternoon. Maybe regroup and see if you can find any better talking points on Twitter.

3 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Don't do that. Just admit you are wrong and Americans pay the tariffs. Honestly, read some of the discussions here to educate yourself of what people actually after to deal with. Here's a perfect example:

It doesn't need to be an argument. We're just helping you understand what you clearly don't understand.

It's worse than that. he gets it but has to pretend he doesn't. That is truly f'ed up. He thinks he can hide behind calling lies an opinion while he eats paint chips with his crayon sammich.