1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

6 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

It's not even that simple. With the cost of housing people are spending years (decades?) just to afford their own home. Throwing children into the mix makes that nearly impossible for a large segment of the population.

Average cost for a birth/delivery:

USA - $18,865

UK - $4500

Germany -$2500

Canada - $1500

1 minute ago, MidMoFo said:

Average cost for a birth/delivery:

USA - $18,865

UK - $4500

Germany -$2500

Canada - $1500

It's insane. Anyone here who has had a kind in the last 12 years or so knows this. I have good insurance and the out of pocket costs when my son was born was complete insanity.

4 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It's insane. Anyone here who has had a kind in the last 12 years or so knows this. I have good insurance and the out of pocket costs when my son was born was complete insanity.

Yep, you'll hit your max out of pocket (which is like 15k these days). Imagine trying to save a for a down payment for a house while also having a kid. Just having the kid is $10-15k in medical costs, then the added insurance costs that point forward (like an additional couple grand a year), then the additional daycare cost (10k+ a year) and THEN the additional cost to actually care for the child (clothes, food, toys).

Asking why people aren't having kids is such a dumb f***ing question. You know why. Your generation is set at the expense of future generations. Reap it.

8 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It's insane. Anyone here who has had a kind in the last 12 years or so knows this. I have good insurance and the out of pocket costs when my son was born was complete insanity.

It is insane.

When my daughter was born, she’s 16, my wife, mom and grandma were talking about how much each delivery cost. My daughter was around $14k, my wife was born in the 70s cost around $250 (no insurance), my mom was born in the 50’s was around $150 no insurance and my grandmother was born in the early 30’s had the doctor do an in home delivery for 2 chickens and a loaf of bread.

Seems like when we started cutting taxes for the rich prices for everything exploded. 🤔

16 minutes ago, Gannan said:

We know you have one of these costumes, Ashley Judd

Make having kids more expensive, not less. Let's stop encouraging people who can't afford kids to have them.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Make having kids more expensive, not less. Let's stop encouraging people who can't afford kids to have them.

It’s been posted before…

11 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Make having kids more expensive, not less. Let's stop encouraging people who can't afford kids to have them.

Those are actually the kids the GOP wants (eventual cheap labor).

5 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Those are actually the kids the GOP wants (eventual cheap labor).

You're giving MAGA way too much credit. There's no long term plan. There's no short term plan. There's just the daily whims of a madman.

I guess the Adderall wore off.

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

OMG, Welfare Queenzzzzz!

8 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

You're giving MAGA way too much credit. There's no long term plan. There's no short term plan. There's just the daily whims of a madman.

That is a very fair point.

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

I hate to say it, but I do tend to agree with Trump on this. It would take 200 years. Ultimately Trump can follow the law by setting up a kangaroo court system. He could also use congress to pass a law saying they have to wait in the country of origin for their court date. But Trump is a "use a machine gun to kill a housefly" type of guy so I'm guessing he will just go the way of giving the finger to the courts.

You agree with his aim to remove due process and habeas? I am vehemently opposed to that and I would have expected you to be as well. Many people who lean right are coming out against this, e.g. Joe Rogan, Senator Kennedy, all members of SCOTUS, Fox legal experts, etc. This aspect of the issue is not a right vs. left item.

As for the rest, yes, write new legislation and setup new immigration courts and deport people faster. I'm 100% behind this manner of managing the situation and these would all need to pass legal review so where Trump may aim to setup a kangaroo court it would at least be subject to the Judiciary. We could also pass legislation to make it economically less attractive to stay in the US as well. All in all, we have a large chunk of common ground on this one.

Finally, I'm very very much opposed with sending people directly into a foreign gulag. There is nothing positive gained from doing that.

2 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Make having kids more expensive, not less. Let's stop encouraging people who can't afford kids to have them.

The poor will still have kids, its just you and the rest of the tax payers that will pay for them either in subsidies or the eventual cost to jail them.

51 minutes ago, barho said:

The poor will still have kids, its just you and the rest of the tax payers that will pay for them either in subsidies or the eventual cost to jail them.

This is why I don't support welfare, Medicaid or Obamacare. Let them see their kids starve and they will stop having kids. Keep enabling them and letting them avoid the consequences of their bad decisions, and you get more bad decisions.

Incentive structures work when they aren't corrupted by government largesse.

A more practical plan -- anyone on welfare who has more kids loses all welfare funding. The kids become wards of the state and are hopefully adopted.

9 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This is why I don't support welfare, Medicaid or Obamacare. Let them see their kids starve and they will stop having kids.

No. They won't stop having kids. Just more dead bodies.

9 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

A more practical plan -- anyone on welfare who has more kids loses all welfare funding. The kids become wards of the state and are hopefully adopted.

Good luck with that. You have just committed endless funding to the state to care for kids nobody wants.

13 minutes ago, toolg said:

Good luck with that. You have just committed endless funding to the state to care for kids nobody wants.

aren't we already doing that for kids born into welfare?

Just now, Alpha_TATEr said:

aren't we already doing that for kids born into welfare?

Along with their parents.

2 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

You agree with his aim to remove due process and habeas? I am vehemently opposed to that and I would have expected you to be as well. Many people who lean right are coming out against this, e.g. Joe Rogan, Senator Kennedy, all members of SCOTUS, Fox legal experts, etc. This aspect of the issue is not a right vs. left item.

As for the rest, yes, write new legislation and setup new immigration courts and deport people faster. I'm 100% behind this manner of managing the situation and these would all need to pass legal review so where Trump may aim to setup a kangaroo court it would at least be subject to the Judiciary. We could also pass legislation to make it economically less attractive to stay in the US as well. All in all, we have a large chunk of common ground on this one.

Finally, I'm very very much opposed with sending people directly into a foreign gulag. There is nothing positive gained from doing that.

Philosophically I don't think people who cross the border illegally should get due process. I understand that's what the law says but it's a ridiculous law. When that law was drafted, there were no such things as smart phones and apps, where millions of people could just cross the border with an app and claim asylum status. While Trump is abusing the spirit of the law, so are the millions of people who crossed illegally and now are claiming asylum because they don't like the ish hole country they came from. Technically they are supposed to seek asylum in the nearest country, but they come here to leech off the system. For example those leaving gang violence in Venezuela had to cross through several countries to get here. Our asylum laws say they should go there first. They are flouting the law too.

However, since the law is the law, I agree that Trump should work with congress to change it instead of thumbing his nose at the courts. I also don't think they should be sent to a gulag, merely returned to their country of origin. Ideally legit asylum seekers should wait there for their case to be heard. The idea of we the US tax payers taking care of the every financial need for millions of illegals until they get their case heard is an absurdity. It's the exact reason why Trump won. I want this situation solved so we don't get President Vance next.

6 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Philosophically I don't think people who cross the border illegally should get due process. I understand that's what the law says but it's a ridiculous law. When that law was drafted, there were no such things as smart phones and apps, where millions of people could just cross the border with an app and claim asylum status. While Trump is abusing the spirit of the law, so are the millions of people who crossed illegally and now are claiming asylum because they don't like the ish hole country they came from. Technically they are supposed to seek asylum in the nearest country, but they come here to leech off the system. For example those leaving gang violence in Venezuela had to cross through several countries to get here. Our asylum laws say they should go there first. They are flouting the law too.

However, since the law is the law, I agree that Trump should work with congress to change it instead of thumbing his nose at the courts. I also don't think they should be sent to a gulag, merely returned to their country of origin. Ideally legit asylum seekers should wait there for their case to be heard. The idea of we the US tax payers taking care of the every financial need for millions of illegals until they get their case heard is an absurdity. It's the exact reason why Trump won. I want this situation solved so we don't get President Vance next.

Did we just become friends again?

50 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

aren't we already doing that for kids born into welfare?

No.

21 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Philosophically I don't think people who cross the border illegally should get due process. I understand that's what the law says but it's a ridiculous law. When that law was drafted, there were no such things as smart phones and apps, where millions of people could just cross the border with an app and claim asylum status. While Trump is abusing the spirit of the law, so are the millions of people who crossed illegally and now are claiming asylum because they don't like the ish hole country they came from. Technically they are supposed to seek asylum in the nearest country, but they come here to leech off the system. For example those leaving gang violence in Venezuela had to cross through several countries to get here. Our asylum laws say they should go there first. They are flouting the law too.

However, since the law is the law, I agree that Trump should work with congress to change it instead of thumbing his nose at the courts. I also don't think they should be sent to a gulag, merely returned to their country of origin. Ideally legit asylum seekers should wait there for their case to be heard. The idea of we the US tax payers taking care of the every financial need for millions of illegals until they get their case heard is an absurdity. It's the exact reason why Trump won. I want this situation solved so we don't get President Vance next.

Well that one is a pretty easy one to address, and was already addressed prior to Biden changing things. Just make it such that people claiming asylum don’t gain entry into the US until they are granted asylum.

It wouldn’t take 200 years to deport people. Obama, Trump, and Biden all deported millions of people.