1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Making promises they can't deliver will only hurt the Democrats in 2028. There's no reason to really do anything other than letting the GOP/Trump keep failing. If they get the House, launch investigations and expose everything they can, but DO NOT impeach him again as that rallies Trump's base.

I'm not 100% impeachment would have the same effect since he's so reviled this time around, but it's not worth trying since it's DOA in Senate anyway. It just looks stupid if they impeach for a 3rd time with no conviction/removal.

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

I'm not 100% impeachment would have the same effect since he's so reviled this time around, but it's not worth trying since it's DOA in Senate anyway. It just looks stupid if they impeach for a 3rd time with no conviction/removal.

Yup, it's just pointless. They should have hearings into all his grifting and self-dealing. Expose how he personally enriched himself by using the office. That hopefully will resonate with his blue collar base - show he's not looking out for them but stealing from everyone.

1 hour ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

It’s still stunning that there is 33% approval. With all that’s happened, it should be in the teens…

7 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Making promises they can't deliver will only hurt the Democrats in 2028. There's no reason to really do anything other than letting the GOP/Trump keep failing. If they get the House, launch investigations and expose everything they can, but DO NOT impeach him again as that rallies Trump's base.

Fat chance. They will impeach him, again. It will go nowhere in the Senate, again.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

Fat chance. They will impeach him, again. It will go nowhere in the Senate, again.

Well, no one does more to hurt the election prospects of Democrats than the Democratic Party.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Yup, it's just pointless. They should have hearings into all his grifting and self-dealing. Expose how he personally enriched himself by using the office. That hopefully will resonate with his blue collar base - show he's not looking out for them but stealing from everyone.

Yeah, I'd steer clear of the war for the most part (assuming it's still going, which Jesus Christ, I hope it's not but it may be). Focus on the corruption and the politicization of the DOJ. It's so blatant and so easy to hit them on and they need a firm foundation to make sure Pam Bondi spends every single day for the rest of her miserable life in a windowless cell.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

Fat chance. They will impeach him, again. It will go nowhere in the Senate, again.

I really don't think they will

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

I really don't think they will

I won that bet last time. Let’s get past the midterms after which I’ll be ready to take that wager again unless something fundamental changes.

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

Yeah, I'd steer clear of the war for the most part (assuming it's still going, which Jesus Christ, I hope it's not but it may be). Focus on the corruption and the politicization of the DOJ. It's so blatant and so easy to hit them on and they need a firm foundation to make sure Pam Bondi spends every single day for the rest of her miserable life in a windowless cell.

To dent Trump with his base, you can't focus on the war, or ICE, or even some of the DOJ stuff. His base is made up of vindictive, small minded, angry working class voters who abhor "elites." So going after Comey, or James, or mocking Mueller's death - they love that crap. So I don't think the politicization of the DOJ is something that touches him - they think Biden did it first so who cares.

You have to expose that he never cared about them at all, that all he cared about was enriching himself. That's how you break the cult - show them he is one of the elites they hate. Go over every dollar he made on his crypto BS, all the payoffs, Don Jr's companies getting government contracts. Charts of his net worth going up while job losses skyrocket, stuff like that.

They love Trump because they think he's different, and he hates the same Ivy League elites scamming the system that the voters think ruined their lives. Expose him as the biggest elite, swamp creature of all.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

I won that bet last time. Let’s get past the midterms after which I’ll be ready to take that wager again unless something fundamental changes.

It might be wishful thinking on my part, but I just can't believe they'll look at it going nowhere after the MF'er tried a coup and think "surely it'll work this time". I mean, Republicans hated Biden with the passion of 1000 suns and they didn't even do it because they knew it would end up looking like a failure when it inevitably died. Dems should learn the same lesson. If you're gonna fight, fight a game you can win, or fight a game that never ends (which is basically what the non-stop investigations are) so a winner's never declared.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

To dent Trump with his base, you can't focus on the war, or ICE, or even some of the DOJ stuff. His base is made up of vindictive, small minded, angry working class voters who abhor "elites." So going after Comey, or James, or mocking Mueller's death - they love that crap. So I don't think the politicization of the DOJ is something that touches him - they think Biden did it first so who cares.

You have to expose that he never cared about them at all, that all he cared about was enriching himself. That's how you break the cult - show them he is one of the elites they hate. Go over every dollar he made on his crypto BS, all the payoffs, Don Jr's companies getting government contracts. Charts of his net worth going up while job losses skyrocket, stuff like that.

They love Trump because they think he's different, and he hates the same Ivy League elites scamming the system that the voters think ruined their lives. Expose him as the biggest elite, swamp creature of all.

I agree for the most part but I really don't think they should even worry about the cult. The cult will never, ever break until he's in the ground and even then they'll buy into conspiracy theories that he'll rise again in 3 days (Did I say 3 days? I meant August. Did I say August? I meant 3 years from this May). But you can still shed relatively normal people by constantly beating the drum on the grifting and Epstein, which is essentially in line with the elite lane you're going down here. I still think the DOJ sheet is important and should be investigated (and something that the Reps have investigated Dem Presidents on over and over, when the political connections aren't even remotely as blatant), but I'll concede it's probably not as politically effective as the corruption.

Just now, VanHammersly said:

I agree for the most part but I really don't think they should even worry about the cult. The cult will never, ever break until he's in the ground and even then they'll buy into conspiracy theories that he'll rise again in 3 days (Did I say 3 days? I meant August. Did I say August? I meant 3 years from this May). But you can still shed relatively normal people by constantly beating the drum on the grifting and Epstein, which is essentially in line with the elite lane you're going down here. I still think the DOJ sheet is important and should be investigated (and something that the Reps have investigated Dem Presidents on over and over, when the political connections aren't even remotely as blatant), but I'll concede it's probably not as politically effective as the corruption.

Yeah - I think you have to try and dent some of the base, because you need to put an end to this for the good of the country. I think the politicization of the DOJ is abhorrent, but most people are either too dumb to understand the implication or actually support it. You have to expose him as a fraud and grifter who not only never cared about his base, but openly mocks them.

8 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Yeah - I think you have to try and dent some of the base, because you need to put an end to this for the good of the country. I think the politicization of the DOJ is abhorrent, but most people are either too dumb to understand the implication or actually support it. You have to expose him as a fraud and grifter who not only never cared about his base, but openly mocks them.

You're way more optimistic than I am if you think there's any way this sheet ever ends by political means. I think we're sunk in the long run and the right will latch onto some other demagogue (probably Tucker Carlson if I had to guess) when Trump's dead and gone. I'm just hoping to extract some political gain for the Dems out of it in the short term. Maybe they can lock up enough people to deter the next one from stepping over the line.

56 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

I completely disagree. They shouldn't want to get anything done with a Rep Senate and Trump and in fact, if they even try they'll likely pay a price for it. When someone's burning your house down you don't ask the arsonist to work with you on putting it out.

I'm all for them saying what they'll do after they retake complete power, starting with severe prison time for anyone in the admin that's broken any laws (so everyone basically), but the only way they can 'fix' what's broken and ensure it doesn't happen again is to up the stakes to anyone that tries. As it stands now, the Reps drive to dismantle the constitution and break any and every law hasn't put them in prison. Until they start paying an actual price for it, it's just going to keep happening. What the Trump era has taught us is that there really aren't that many tangible barriers keeping our leadership in line and keeping our republic in place. Most of it was simply precedent, patriotism and common decency. But the way the Republican party has gone, they don't care about precedent, they aren't even remotely patriotic and they have no decency, so they need to pay a real price or else it's just going to keep happening until there's nothing left.

But to you're last point, I don't think impeachment matters. It won't happen so it's a waste of time even trying. They should just be churning investigations strictly for the headlines. If they introduce laws, they should only be for the headlines too. Laws like chemical castration for any male J6er who was pardoned by Trump, mandatory prison sentences for any relative of the President who does business overseas, stuff to grab headlines that'll never go anywhere.

What I was trying to say was that they still need to offer something before the elections besides going after Trump and obstruction. I guess that would appeal to the democratic base, but does that do enough to win the election?! People are really hurting financially and I’m sure they want to hear more than just investigations etc.. I get that it’s also tough to promise things that are going to be extremely difficult to keep, but don’t you still need to show some sort of plan besides the crap Congress has offered since Trump took office?

Agree with your assessment of your second paragraph. The Repubs that caused this complete mess and tried to dismantle the Constitution need to be held accountable. Ordinary people need to finally see that the crooks in office and the high society are held accountable - and that has to happen with the Epstein people first and foremost. ALL OF THEM, regardless of party etc..

Impeachment would be a terrible idea, as conviction and removal will never happen. Holding hearings and showing the public that Trump and his cronies made billions while the rest couldn’t afford health care etc. could be a winning formula for 28. They need to show that Trump is even above the elites that they hate.

7 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

You're way more optimistic than I am if you think there's any way this sheet ever ends by political means. I think we're sunk in the long run and the right will latch onto some other demagogue (probably Tucker Carlson if I had to guess) when Trump's dead and gone. I'm just hoping to extract some political gain for the Dems out of it in the short term. Maybe they can lock up enough people to deter the next one from stepping over the line.

Well, I have the selfish motivation of wanting my party back - the party of Reagan. I know there's a 99.9% chance it is gone forever, but I still think this country needs a functional, fiscally conservative party. Let me dream.

I also think most of the current successors (Vance, Rubio) lack the charisma and, frankly, the level of shamelessness required to be the next Trump. Rubio for sure isn't capable of such cretinous behavior. Maybe the party turns to someone like Carlson or Trump Jr., but it's hard to find someone as amoral as Trump.

5 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

What I was trying to say was that they still need to offer something before the elections besides going after Trump and obstruction. I guess that would appeal to the democratic base, but does that do enough to win the election?! People are really hurting financially and I’m sure they want to hear more than just investigations etc.. I get that it’s also tough to promise things that are going to be extremely difficult to keep, but don’t you still need to show some sort of plan besides the crap Congress has offered since Trump took office?

I mean, I'm sure they will, but for one it's really hard to say what they'll focus on this far out from the next presidential election. It could be as simple as "we'll get out of Iran" if we're still in Iran. Or it could have to do with housing/affordability, since those things will almost certainly still be an issue.

But for the most part, the American people don't give a sheet about that kind of stuff. They think it's boring. So unless it's about punitively punishing red states (which is where I'd go with it if I had to pick something) or a national divorce (obviously radically destructive but would at least get them attention) there's not much Dems can propose that anyone will give a sheet about. Everyone just thinks Dems are nerds and they don't listen to them, so there's just not much point in them hammering down on the details of anything. It's why I hate the whole "Dems need to offer an alternative vision/plans" thing. They do that sheet all the time. No one cares, the media ignores it and they're never rewarded for it. Better to just attack the right. At least people pay attention to that.

I certainly agree that the Dems need to stop playing nice! That appeals to no one and is seen as weak. You can’t constantly turn the other cheek and get blasted over and over again. A mix of some sort of policy (housing / health care / affordability) and going after the current regime in full force could be a good option.

It sure would be nice to have two centered political parties fighting it out. Two extreme options are just not appealing, although the Trump takeover of the conservative Republican Party is way more extreme and harmful.

2 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

I certainly agree that the Dems need to stop playing nice! That appeals to no one and is seen as weak. You can’t constantly turn the other cheek and get blasted over and over again. A mix of some sort of policy (housing / health care / affordability) and going after the current regime in full force could be a good option.

It sure would be nice to have two centered political parties fighting it out. Two extreme options are just not appealing, although the Trump takeover of the conservative Republican Party is way more extreme and harmful.

For November there is every reason to just pass Trump rope. No need to push any other buttons. Just let him neuter MAGA himself and lose the House and maybe the Senate. Moving into ‘28 is an entirely different story and at that point another message will be necessary and it will surely need to center on the economy and away from the identity politics.

48 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Yeah - I think you have to try and dent some of the base, because you need to put an end to this for the good of the country. I think the politicization of the DOJ is abhorrent, but most people are either too dumb to understand the implication or actually support it. You have to expose him as a fraud and grifter who not only never cared about his base, but openly mocks them.

I agree 100% with this sentiment. The economy for run of the mill MAGA voters is about to move from challenging to truly disastrous which sets up the perfect opportunity to point at Trump and his lackeys as the grifters who duped all of MAGA.

B

30 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I agree 100% with this sentiment. The economy for run of the mill MAGA voters is about to move from challenging to truly disastrous which sets up the perfect opportunity to point at Trump and his lackeys as the grifters who duped all of MAGA.

It really is the economy, stupid. He's the greatest salesman that ever lived but even he can't sell this hot turd.

2 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Well, no one does more to hurt the election prospects of Democrats than the Democratic Party.

It's infuriating. Even my liberal wife is astounded at how readily Dems fumble it.

52 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

It's infuriating. Even my liberal wife is astounded at how readily Dems fumble it.

Which makes the idea that they could conspire to steal an election completely absurd, and hilarious that Trumptards could even entertain such a possibility

Trump be sued to keep his image off coin.

https://www.kptv.com

‘Why not push back’: Retired Portland-based lawyer files...

A retired lawyer in Portland has filed a lawsuit over a commemorative coin featuring an image President Donald Trump.

5 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Well, I have the selfish motivation of wanting my party back - the party of Reagan. I know there's a 99.9% chance it is gone forever, but I still think this country needs a functional, fiscally conservative party. Let me dream.

I also think most of the current successors (Vance, Rubio) lack the charisma and, frankly, the level of shamelessness required to be the next Trump. Rubio for sure isn't capable of such cretinous behavior. Maybe the party turns to someone like Carlson or Trump Jr., but it's hard to find someone as amoral as Trump.

I just don't see that as happening. The poles shifted and the GOP is the new Anti-Federalist party. The Dems are the new establishment. Best we can do is hope they figure out how to not go off the deep end (they won't.)

6 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Making promises they can't deliver will only hurt the Democrats in 2028. There's no reason to really do anything other than letting the GOP/Trump keep failing. If they get the House, launch investigations and expose everything they can, but DO NOT impeach him again as that rallies Trump's base.

6 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Well, no one does more to hurt the election prospects of Democrats than the Democratic Party.

There's such a laundry list of topics midterms. It should be a landslide of epic proportions but I do fear they'll F up and maga will somehow stay in control. I don't trust the nevertrumpers of the repubs to set things right. The party is gone

I'm not sure if we've ever seen such a layup created by a party

I also fear for the stupidity of Americans