8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Expeditiously!

 

When I typed 'Rapidly', this was actually the scene that I had running in my mind:

 

2 hours ago, kiwinavega said:

I see your point, but it would be clearer if you can name ten better QBs than Hurts. I don't think he's elite - for me that would be top five - but he's definitely top ten for me. I've an open mind, so convince me. I'll give you Allen, Burrow, Mahomes and Jackson to start with. Give me six more and I'll accept you're right.

When I said top 10 I also said "long-term" meaning a QB who does it more than one outlier season. Let's look at his passing rankings and that tells you the number of QBs higher than him.

Hurts passing yard rank by season:

2021: 21st
2022: 10th
2023: 14th
2024: 20th

Hurts pass TD rank by season:

2021: 21st
2022: 14th
2023: 13th
2024: 20th

His best season was an outlier, his usual is middle of the pack. Yes it's more than just passing yards and TDs, and efficiency, passer rating and all that matter too. Hurts has the running ability which is also a factor. The offensive roster has an elite O line, elite RB, good RB depth, elite WRs, good TE room. Hurts running is cool, and adds a dimension to the offense. But being 20th in passing with this line and WRs is crazy.

He has a lot of issues in other areas like decision making, reads, missing open receivers, taking a sack or losing yards instead of throwing the ball away. I've also defended him against the more extreme criticism because he has also made great plays, led strong drives and shown flashes. He finds a way to win and he doesn't let setbacks derail him, he stays focused. But with this roster they should be like the greatest show on turf lighting it up. Howie paid him like a top QB after his outlier season, and he's been average since.

We're always making excuses for him. OC, injury, rust, play calling. The bar is so low people celebrate "he didn't turn the ball over!" He needs to be better. I hope he improves and proves he can step it up the rest of the playoffs. 

1 hour ago, DeathByEagle said:

Watch the all 22. They routes were open when they made the cut or break. Hurts is not that style qb who throws before the cut. So the routes covered up quick since the throw was not made in time.

That is on both Hurts and Moore. 

Hurts- QBs should know and trust the route to throw it a sec before the break when it will be open. Hurts does not trust himself or the recs around him. Hurts only throws to recs wide open. He won't throw a player open. 

Moore- Needs to understand Hurts limitations and design the offense routes to his strengths. We know he won't throw curls or breaking routes so need more crosses that lead outside since Hurts doesn't like the middle. Sadly Moore is extremely limited in his plays due to limitations. It's exactly why we changed the scheme to run 65+% of the game after the bye week. 

Again, he is what he is. Have run with it and just prey other teams make more mistakes against our top defense. 

I watched tons of film, broken down by an ex NFL QB, showing everyone covered all day. That's what I saw. All game, too. 

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

But being 20th in passing with this line and WRs is crazy.

Obviously, judging from my previous posts, I'm on board with the efficiency argument. You won't pass for any yardage records when you pass barely more than 40% of the time. So when you do pass, you need to be efficient and he has been. 

But this thread is really about this last game. Hurts began the game with time to throw and scored a TD on our first possession. After that, was our O-line alone enough to give him time to throw once they started blitzing? 

 

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

When I said top 10 I also said "long-term" meaning a QB who does it more than one outlier season. Let's look at his passing rankings and that tells you the number of QBs higher than him.

Hurts passing yard rank by season:

2021: 21st
2022: 10th
2023: 14th
2024: 20th

Hurts pass TD rank by season:

2021: 21st
2022: 14th
2023: 13th
2024: 20th

His best season was an outlier, his usual is middle of the pack. Yes it's more than just passing yards and TDs, and efficiency, passer rating and all that matter too. Hurts has the running ability which is also a factor. The offensive roster has an elite O line, elite RB, good RB depth, elite WRs, good TE room. Hurts running is cool, and adds a dimension to the offense. But being 20th in passing with this line and WRs is crazy.

He has a lot of issues in other areas like decision making, reads, missing open receivers, taking a sack or losing yards instead of throwing the ball away. I've also defended him against the more extreme criticism because he has also made great plays, led strong drives and shown flashes. He finds a way to win and he doesn't let setbacks derail him, he stays focused. But with this roster they should be like the greatest show on turf lighting it up. Howie paid him like a top QB after his outlier season, and he's been average since.

We're always making excuses for him. OC, injury, rust, play calling. The bar is so low people celebrate "he didn't turn the ball over!" He needs to be better. I hope he improves and proves he can step it up the rest of the playoffs. 

Best Hurts post in awhile to describe the convo from the other side of everything is fine. The team is exceptional,  he is the exception. 

7 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Best Hurts post in awhile to describe the convo from the other side of everything is fine. The team is exceptional,  he is the exception. 

Trade Jalen Hurts to Cleveland or Las Vegas or wherever.

1 hour ago, Talonblood said:

I watched tons of film, broken down by an ex NFL QB, showing everyone covered all day. That's what I saw. All game, too. 

Well from being an ex NFL safety, I saw openings. This is not college ball. NFL open is a split sec. Just the QB has to time it correctly. Again not Hurts strong area. So I stick with my point it was both their faults. 

Hurts will never be a passing QB throwing recovers open. Sadly it's a dying breed as HS and college ruined the position using RBs at QB. Good to have running as a option but passing skills and knowledge of coverage and breaking points should be the main focus. 

But again, it's not Hurts, never will be so have to live with it and hope for our top defense and running game to take over

21 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

Trade Jalen Hurts to Cleveland or Las Vegas or wherever.

I even said in another post I'm not talking about benching or releasing. Just the delusion of him being more than an average at passing is blind Fandom, and we've spent 4 years and some change on him and his passing hasn't developed. He may be losing another OC after this year so will be starting over again. I guess go grab Tee Martin (qb coach from Baltimore last two years) and hope something more develops....but to me it's run him til the legs can run no more and get your wins. Something is working even if his arm is not 

Hurts stats for 2022 and 2024

Completion percentage 66.5 68.7

TD percentage 4.8 5.0

Interception percentage 1.3 1.4

YPA 8.0 8.0

Rate 101.5 103.7

The only difference between 2022 and 2024 was that he threw 100 more times. Which, and I know this might be hard for some of you to grasp, was probably a good idea considering we signed Saquon Barkley.

Yes, the team did score 14 more points in 2022 than it did this year. But he also threw for 154 and 121 yards in the first two playoff games in 2022.

So the idea that he was great in 2022 and bad this year comes from a position of total ignorance. 

The only throw that he really missed in that rough stretch was the worm burner he threw to Brown.

The Packers started blitzing and the pressure was in his face pretty quicky. He didn't have much of a choice but to throw it away in a lot of those attempts. They also had some drive killing penalties which didn't help

It would have been nice to see Hurts and Moore find a way to move the chains in that period, especially after the interception late in the first half where they couldn't even get into FG range. The Packers have a pretty great defense, but the offense didn't look as clean as you would hope 

2 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

Well from being an ex NFL safety, I saw openings. This is not college ball. NFL open is a split sec. Just the QB has to time it correctly. Again not Hurts strong area. So I stick with my point it was both their faults. 

Hurts will never be a passing QB throwing recovers open. Sadly it's a dying breed as HS and college ruined the position using RBs at QB. Good to have running as a option but passing skills and knowledge of coverage and breaking points should be the main focus. 

But again, it's not Hurts, never will be so have to live with it and hope for our top defense and running game to take over

Then you are a blind Ex NFL safety. Nobody was open.

 

 

9 hours ago, NOTW said:

When I said top 10 I also said "long-term" meaning a QB who does it more than one outlier season. Let's look at his passing rankings and that tells you the number of QBs higher than him.

Hurts passing yard rank by season:

2021: 21st
2022: 10th
2023: 14th
2024: 20th

Hurts pass TD rank by season:

2021: 21st
2022: 14th
2023: 13th
2024: 20th

His best season was an outlier, his usual is middle of the pack. Yes it's more than just passing yards and TDs, and efficiency, passer rating and all that matter too. Hurts has the running ability which is also a factor. The offensive roster has an elite O line, elite RB, good RB depth, elite WRs, good TE room. Hurts running is cool, and adds a dimension to the offense. But being 20th in passing with this line and WRs is crazy.

He has a lot of issues in other areas like decision making, reads, missing open receivers, taking a sack or losing yards instead of throwing the ball away. I've also defended him against the more extreme criticism because he has also made great plays, led strong drives and shown flashes. He finds a way to win and he doesn't let setbacks derail him, he stays focused. But with this roster they should be like the greatest show on turf lighting it up. Howie paid him like a top QB after his outlier season, and he's been average since.

We're always making excuses for him. OC, injury, rust, play calling. The bar is so low people celebrate "he didn't turn the ball over!" He needs to be better. I hope he improves and proves he can step it up the rest of the playoffs. 

@brkmsn @jsb235 and @Mat have all made excellent points in this thread. But let me address the points in this thread and I know the poster is an intelligent poster who is not a Hurts Hater.

1) I don’t necessarily see 2022 as an outlier. Hurts continued that play into 2023. After 11 weeks Hurts was MVP favourite. He was beating teams with his arms and his legs and knocked off Mahomes and Allen with a poor defense and mediocre running game.

2) He hasn’t needed to put up passing yards because to be quite honest the Eagles have been beating teams easily and he hasn’t needed to pass much in the 4th. Look at what Lamar (who I think we all agree is elite) has been doing the last few weeks since the Ravens D has got it together. It’s all 150 - 200 yards passing. Because he hasn’t had to pass much. Ravens would be delighted if he didn’t need to throw for 250 plus.

3) Hurts has 42 rushing TDs in the past 3 years. They count just as much as passing TDs.

21 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

@brkmsn @jsb235 and @Mat have all made excellent points in this thread. But let me address the points in this thread and I know the poster is an intelligent poster who is not a Hurts Hater.

1) I don’t necessarily see 2022 as an outlier. Hurts continued that play into 2023. After 11 weeks Hurts was MVP favourite. He was beating teams with his arms and his legs and knocked off Mahomes and Allen with a poor defense and mediocre running game.

2) He hasn’t needed to put up passing yards because to be quite honest the Eagles have been beating teams easily and he hasn’t needed to pass much in the 4th. Look at what Lamar (who I think we all agree is elite) has been doing the last few weeks since the Ravens D has got it together. It’s all 150 - 200 yards passing. Because he hasn’t had to pass much. Ravens would be delighted if he didn’t need to throw for 250 plus.

3) Hurts has 42 rushing TDs in the past 3 years. They count just as much as passing TDs.

You make great points bud.

I think I agree that 2022 was not an outlier but I also don’t think he’s going to perform consistently at that high of a level. I think he’s a good QB capable of playing at a high level in some games but we all know he comes with limitations.

As you say I think the defense being so good and us holding big leads in the 4th quarter has led to him throwing the ball less later in games which of course then impacts his numbers. But there have been other games where that hasn’t been the case. Sunday that was not really the case certainly not in the 90 minutes of actual time he had between completions.

We can win the SB with Hurts as our QB and that’s really the main thing. We know he can play at a very high level. We know he looks after the ball and we know that he can make big plays in big moments. We almost won the SB in 2022 with Hurts and we have another fantastic opportunity this year. He needs to be better than he was on Sunday but I think there’s a very good chance that will be the worst version of Hurts we see the rest of this year.

This year we had constant injuries to the receivers. Goedert missed time as well as usual. And I think AJ has not been 100% all season. So i dont blame it all on Hurts. But its obvious he is also not the kind of QB who can elevate mediocre receivers. Which means he isnt elite which is fine, since theres less than a handful of elite QBs and they were all high first rounders. We got Hurts in the second round. He has already vastly exceeded expectations for his draft position. He is a game manager. I think you can still get to the Superbowl with him.

14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

You make great points bud.

I think I agree that 2022 was not an outlier but I also don’t think he’s going to perform consistently at that high of a level. I think he’s a good QB capable of playing at a high level in some games but we all know he comes with limitations.

As you say I think the defense being so good and us holding big leads in the 4th quarter has led to him throwing the ball less later in games which of course then impacts his numbers. But there have been other games where that hasn’t been the case. Sunday that was not really the case certainly not in the 90 minutes of actual time he had between completions.

We can win the SB with Hurts as our QB and that’s really the main thing. We know he can play at a very high level. We know he looks after the ball and we know that he can make big plays in big moments. We almost won the SB in 2022 with Hurts and we have another fantastic opportunity this year. He needs to be better than he was on Sunday but I think there’s a very good chance that will be the worst version of Hurts we see the rest of this year.

Agree with what you say mate. If you look at the 2022 playoffs, Hurts really didn’t do anything in the first 2 rounds after a similar layoff. He was amazing in the Super Bowl and we really should have won with that performance.

2 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Agree with what you say mate. If you look at the 2022 playoffs, Hurts really didn’t do anything in the first 2 rounds after a similar layoff. He was amazing in the Super Bowl and we really should have won with that performance.

There’s definitely an element that Sunday was rust. I’m not saying all and I’m not saying he’ll get back to 2022 Jalen but I do think part of the issue (not all of the issue) was rust.

Just something of note

Hurts had a superhuman performance in the Super Bowl vs the Chiefs where he threw for 304 yards and a TD while also having 70 yards on the ground and another 3 TD's. It's a game they lost where Mahomes threw for under 200 yards, although he had 3 TD's through the air. The Chiefs were able to run the ball pretty effectively, while the Eagles struggled to get going with Sanders and Gainwell. 

A QB's best friend in the playoffs is a ground game they can rely on to go with a solid defense. You can even look at guys like Brady and Manning. Brady had 505 yards and 3 TD's against the Eagles and lost, the following year he had 262 yards and 1 INT but Sony Michel was able to have 94 yards and a TD while Burkhead ran for 43 yards on 7 carries and the D held the Rams to 3 points. Manning finally got over the hump when he had Rhodes and Addai run for a combined 190 yards and a TD. So the Eagles are going with a run first identity which doesn't require Hurts to have that superhero performance for them to win. They can grind teams with the run game, control the clock and have an excellent defense to go with it. It's a far more sustainable way to win games.

I don't think it's that Hurts is incapable of going out and slinging it. He showed it for the first half of last season before the wheels fell off entirely along with 2022 and that Super Bowl performance and the Steelers game this year was one of those prove it games after the criticism. Right now it's about being efficient and winning games in a way that the Eagles think that they can win a championship. It's behind a dominant run game and defense. 

You get games like this one where the Packers adjust and it took the Eagles coaches far too long to make some changes offensively. There were self inflicted wounds, guys flying by unblocked and some missed throws. But they trust the D to step up and do their job and ended up winning pretty comfortably in the end 

22 hours ago, time2rock said:

6 for 13 for only 39 yards passing in the first half ... I'd say he struggled.  But I will edit the poll to add that option.  

Questionable offensive calls, questionable protection schemes..the whole team including coaches struggled...against a very good Packers team...but We won.  That's all that matters. Now onto Hot Rams. They will be a challenge and we will have to play a hell of a lot better  than we did against the Packers. Looking forward to a great game of football.

Another thing nobody is really brining up is that both Smith and Brown were playing banged up despite being rested for some of the practices last week. I think Brown especially was happy to have a light workload in that game. 

I'm glad the film has been analyzed and people can see that it wasn't all Hurts. When I was criticizing the calls Sunday, the haters were out in full force.  Even Orlovsky pointed out that Hurts was fine, but the pass plays were bad. They don't scheme any WR's open, which is why Hurts ends ups going through his progressions and then has to take off.  Of course Hurts could become a "timing" QB, but that's like asking Tom Brady to become a dual threat.  

Anyway, onto the Rams

14 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

Hurts- QBs should know and trust the route to throw it a sec before the break when it will be open. Hurts does not trust himself or the recs around him. Hurts only throws to recs wide open. He won't throw a player open. 

This was why watching McKee against the Giants was so refreshing. Between throwing guys open and also visibly going through his progressions, it was nice to see a different style of QB in there.

10 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Hurts stats for 2022 and 2024

Completion percentage 66.5 68.7

TD percentage 4.8 5.0

Interception percentage 1.3 1.4

YPA 8.0 8.0

Rate 101.5 103.7

The only difference between 2022 and 2024 was that he threw 100 more times. Which, and I know this might be hard for some of you to grasp, was probably a good idea considering we signed Saquon Barkley.

Yes, the team did score 14 more points in 2022 than it did this year. But he also threw for 154 and 121 yards in the first two playoff games in 2022.

So the idea that he was great in 2022 and bad this year comes from a position of total ignorance. 

I also think it's fair to say that Hurts is less of a threat as a runner now. Whether it's something with his knee, the league catching up to the read option, or scheme changes on our end, Jalen isn't the runner he was in 2022. I don't think saying his 2024 season is just as good as his 2022 season is accurate at all.

13 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Obviously, judging from my previous posts, I'm on board with the efficiency argument. You won't pass for any yardage records when you pass barely more than 40% of the time. So when you do pass, you need to be efficient and he has been. 

But this thread is really about this last game. Hurts began the game with time to throw and scored a TD on our first possession. After that, was our O-line alone enough to give him time to throw once they started blitzing? 

 

If I was the opposing defensive coordinator, I'd blitz on every single play. 

15 minutes ago, Captain F said:

If I was the opposing defensive coordinator, I'd blitz on every single play. 

It sure beats giving him 8 seconds to throw. 

My take on the game is that Moore failed to adjust the play-calling accordingly once Hurts was seeing pressure on every pass attempt. I'm not sure why so many people here are afraid of losing him to a HC opening. What exactly in this playoff game did we get from Moore? A trick tush push and 1 play action pass?