11 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Again there’s a difference between snapping the ball late and arriving at the LoS late.

There is, and that's why this year's number is drastically higher. Seems like every play they break the huddle with <10 seconds and it's a rush to get the snap off, even at home

Just now, Waiting4Someday said:

I’m implying sometimes they get the line late as Jordan regrets, and other times they choose to snap the ball late for other tactical reasons.

Eh, I think there's a pretty tight correlation. We don't run a ton of motion, either by design or necessity. I'd imagine if there were a similar graph for how late we're breaking the huddle, we'd be probably be dead last in that category as well.

Just now, devpool said:

There is, and that's why this year's number is drastically higher. Seems like every play they break the huddle with <10 seconds and it's a rush to get the snap off, even at home

Yep I'm not sure how anyone can watch our offense this season and believe we're not getting to the line egregiously late on a consistent basis.

1 minute ago, devpool said:

There is, and that's why this year's number is drastically higher. Seems like every play they break the huddle with <10 seconds and it's a rush to get the snap off, even at home

That would be data I’d want to see, but I can see how it is inferred.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Eh, I think there's a pretty tight correlation. We don't run a ton of motion, either by design or necessity. I'd imagine if there were a similar graph for how late we're breaking the huddle, we'd be probably be dead last in that category as well.

Very possible. I’m not sure if there’s any utility in ‘hiding’ our formation in the huddle after the 15s mark, as either the defense sees the keys or doesn’t.

3 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Very possible. I’m not sure if there’s any utility in ‘hiding’ our formation after the 15s mark, as either the defense sees the keys or doesn’t.

Right, because it's not intentional. If that were the reason, we could utilize formation shifts, but we almost never see those this year for a reason. We can come to our own conclusions as to why that is.

12 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

After looking at those numbers, between the OC and QB, who would you say is the primary cause for us to be having over 30% of our snaps with less than 2 seconds on the play clock?

For the third time now, I agree Patullo is the major problem for this season. I also acknowledge that we have been one of the worst teams in football at this very thing for years now, which would point to Hurts having trouble with it as well.

So for the third time, again, both can be true.

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Right, because it's not intentional. If that were the reason, we could utilize formation shifts, but we almost never see those this year for a reason. We can come to our own conclusions as to why that is.

It’s crude, but if formation shifts are out due penalty concerns, complication etc, breaking the huddle at 10s maybe gives the defense less time to react to what they are seeing. I‘d rather the offense take the opposite approach and probe the defense pre-snap, but as you’ve pointed out we don’t seem very interested in that.

1 minute ago, Waiting4Someday said:

It’s crude, but if formation shifts are out due penalty concerns, complication etc, breaking the huddle at 10s maybe gives the defense less time to react to what they are seeing. I‘d rather the offense take the opposite approach and probe the defense pre-snap, but as you’ve pointed out we don’t seem very interested in that.

I'd say if an OC is choosing to avoid formation shifts because of penalty concerns, that speaks to a much more unsettling issue.

1 hour ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Again there’s a difference between snapping the ball late and arriving at the LoS late.

I'd disagree if the ball is snapped late un the clock in either scenario. We are a proven late snap offense and this means defenders don't have to guess when we will snap the ball, they know when. It allows a defense across all levels to get a great jump at the snap. Some variety would let our offense get that split second advantage. We need that as our offense is very predictable. Late snap most of the time combined with predictability are two of the reasons, nor all, but two big reasons our offense looks elementary more often than not.

8 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

I'd disagree if the ball is snapped late un the clock in either scenario. We are a proven late snap offense and this means defenders don't have to guess when we will snap the ball, they know when. It allows a defense across all levels to get a great jump at the snap. Some variety would let our offense get that split second advantage. We need that as our offense is very predictable. Late snap most of the time combined with predictability are two of the reasons, nor all, but two big reasons our offense looks elementary more often than not.

I don’t disagree, the chart was organized on snaps at 2s or less. If we varied the snaps within that range that would be OK. Given that we do silent count a lot, there’s not exactly a lot of mystery when we are snapping at 0s or otherwise.

Multiple things can be true:

• Hurts has his limitations and will never be a great passer consistently

• The better OCs they've had were able to scheme an offense to his strengths

• Patullo is the worst OC we've had under Nick, he has lot of problems and plenty of them have nothing to do with Hurts

• Hurts and other players don't seem to have confidence in Patullo

• Nick took the job knowing Hurts was the QB

• They extended Hurts and gave him a no trade clause after the 2023 collapse where he had his highest turnovers. They made that choice and now they are stuck with him due to his contract

• Patullo is the worst at getting the play call in slower, regardless of whether you think Hurts is an issue in processing the play and defense. If both are problems, both should be addressed not just blame one

15 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Multiple things can be true:

• Hurts has his limitations and will never be a great passer consistently

• The better OCs they've had were able to scheme an offense to his strengths

• Patullo is the worst OC we've had under Nick, he has lot of problems and plenty of them have nothing to do with Hurts

• Hurts and other players don't seem to have confidence in Patullo

• Nick took the job knowing Hurts was the QB

• They extended Hurts and gave him a no trade clause after the 2023 collapse where he had his highest turnovers. They made that choice and now they are stuck with him due to his contract

• Patullo is the worst at getting the play call in slower, regardless of whether you think Hurts is an issue in processing the play and defense. If both are problems, both should be addressed not just blame one

I agree with you on everything except Nick knew his quarterback was going to be Jalen hurts. When he interviewed there were reports about what his plan was to fix Carson Wentz. I think when he took the interview and they hired him, the Eagles believed they could get Carson Wentz to come back and being the quarterback. Furthermore, if you look at 2021 and 2022, the Eagles had a lot of assets that if Jalen hurts didn’t work out that year that they could go get another quarterback. They flirted with the idea of getting Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson. heck both of them didn’t wanna come here and that’s a major win for us in hindsight

4 hours ago, DaBirds said:

I give Nick full credit for the offense.

Every time he’s involved with it, it gets worse. They can’t even hire a real OC and let him do his thing because Nick has to make sure his amateur nonsense is in it somewhere.

Yes he’s gets a ton of credit for the garbage we see on offense.

My quote literally just said, as in just said and confirmed, that he was VERY involved during 2021 and 2022. Did you just not watch the video and then comment anyway, or did you hear the words and decide to think what you wanted to think?

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I agree with you on everything except Nick knew his quarterback was going to be Jalen hurts. When he interviewed there were reports about what his plan was to fix Carson Wentz. I think when he took the interview and they hired him, the Eagles believed they could get Carson Wentz to come back and being the quarterback. Furthermore, if you look at 2021, the Eagles had a lot of assets that if Jalen hurts didn’t work out that year that they could go get another quarterback. They flirted with the idea of getting Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson. heck both of them didn’t wanna come here and that’s a major win for us in hindsight

Ok, but moving on from Wentz was on the table. They traded him 2 months after hiring Nick so it's not like it was based on camp or preseason.

And again: after the 2023 season they chose to give him a contract with NTC. What was Nick's input on that?

So since we’ve insisted on going so deep down the play clock and seconds to go rabbit hole and have obsessed over evidence and the burden of proof…does anyone actually want to argue that the offense would be so much meaningfully improved if they just got the LOS sooner? Do we want to argue that’s the biggest problem on offense? Would the passing game be ok if that idiot Patullo consistently got the play in earlier?

4 hours ago, DaBirds said:

Yes… Nick handed the offense over to Steichen after a month or two and it suddenly took off and lasted all the way until the SB the next year.

Then in 2023 it looked like Siri’s offense again.

Weird coincidence.

Not having eyes or ears is a great way to remain uninformed. Having a bad memory doesn't help either.

The only thing you know of for sure that happened in 2021 is that Sirianni stopped calling plays in 2021. Nothing else. If you do, cite it. If not, stop with the BS narrative and asserting it as fact.

FWIW, AR and Mcnabb were notorious for not getting the play in on time. It was never an issue for AR post Mcnabb. I have no idea if it was or wasn’t an issue for Mcnabb during his time in DC.

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

Ok, but moving on from Wentz was on the table. They traded him 2 months after hiring Nick so it's not like it was based on camp or preseason.

And again: after the 2023 season they chose to give him a contract with NTC. What was Nick's input on that?

They moved on from Wentz month and a half later but they still had assets to go get another quarterback if Jalen hurts wasn’t the guy. That was always part of their plan after 2021 was to reevaluate with the assets they had if hurts wasn’t the guy. Frankly Watson and Russ turning them down plays into this.

Again, you’re making way too big of a deal about it NTC. if they tell hurts, they want to move onto Tanner McKee, I bet a lot of money he’d say I want be traded so he can play elsewhere. The NTC comes in because they can’t just send him to Cleveland as he’d reject the trade.

Also hurts got his extension after SB 57. It was April 18th 2023. Super Bowl 57 was played February 12, 2023. He was also set to be a free agent at the end of 2023, no way they were going into 2023 without an extension (https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-and-hurts-agree-to-terms-on-a-mega-5-year-extension/272997/). So his extension was not after the 2023 season. It was before the 2023 season. he was entering his last year of his contract because he was a second round pick and they didn’t have the luxury of a fifth year option like first round picks had. Was either no extension and tag him (Dak and cousins sirustions) or extend him after a great 2022 season. Eagles were never going down the road of not extending him early after 2022

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So since we’ve insisted on going so deep down the play clock and seconds to go rabbit hole and have obsessed over evidence and the burden of proof…does anyone actually want to argue that the offense would be so much meaningfully improved if they just got the LOS sooner? Do we want to argue that’s the biggest problem on offense? Would the passing game be ok if that idiot Patullo consistently got the play in earlier?

There's no way to really know. I'd say that it probably can't make it worse, but there's no way to know for sure if it would make it better. I think it's one of those things fans are harping on because Eagles fans kind of just harp on everything when they're frustrated and looking for answers, the 'Nail that sticks up gets hammered down' approach. But in reality no one knows if that's causative. That all depends on how much is predicated based on pre-snap adjustments, what they'd actually adjust to, and other language that no one on this board actually understands as its a component of the prep that goes on during the six days of the week no one sees (and many, for some reason, seem to feel doesn't actually matter, even outside of W/L).

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

FWIW, AR and Mcnabb were notorious for not getting the play in on time. It was never an issue for AR post Mcnabb. I have no idea if it was or wasn’t an issue for Mcnabb during his time in DC.

There were also many times out of shape Mcnabb was not able to keep up with the hurry up style offense. It was a combo of the two.

18 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

Not having eyes or ears is a great way to remain uninformed. Having a bad memory doesn't help either.

The only thing you know of for sure that happened in 2021 is that Sirianni stopped calling plays in 2021. Nothing else. If you do, cite it. If not, stop with the BS narrative and asserting it as fact.

?? Huh? Calling plays isnt part of the offense? You just typed a bunch of words. Sorry Mrs Sirianni for pointing out common knowledge

16 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

They moved on from Wentz month and a half later but they still had assets to go get another quarterback if Jalen hurts wasn’t the guy. That was always part of their plan after 2021 was to reevaluate with the assets they had if hurts wasn’t the guy. Frankly Watson and Russ turning them down plays into this.

Again, you’re making way too big of a deal about it NTC. if they tell hurts, they want to move onto Tanner McKee, I bet a lot of money he’d say I want be traded so he can play elsewhere. The NTC comes in because they can’t just send him to Cleveland as he’d reject the trade.

Also hurts got his extension after SB 57. It was April 18th 2023. Super Bowl 57 was played February 12, 2023. He was also set to be a free agent at the end of 2023, no way they were going into 2023 without an extension (https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-and-hurts-agree-to-terms-on-a-mega-5-year-extension/272997/). So his extension was not after the 2023 season. It was before the 2023 season. he was entering his last year of his contract because he was a second round pick and they didn’t have the luxury of a fifth year option like first round picks had. Was either no extension and tag him (Dak and cousins sirustions) or extend him after a great 2022 season. Eagles were never going down the road of not extending him early after 2022

Gotcha, I remembered 2023 but it was before that season.

My point was: Nick had his chance to voice about the QB. They kept Hurts. Not everyone gets a NTC so let's not downplay that.

The organization chose Hurts. Nick was part of that.

3 minutes ago, DaBirds said:

?? Huh? Calling plays isnt part of the offense? You just typed a bunch of words. Sorry Mrs Sirianni for pointing out common knowledge

Jesus, why do I even bother.

Your post said handed the offense over, not handed one part of the offense over. I didn't say a "bunch of words". If you know he handed over the offense, cite where from. Show that he wasn't involved with the offense in any meaningful capacity after giving up play-calling in 2021, all the way until the end of 2022. Try it. Go ahead.

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

Gotcha, I remembered 2023 but it was before that season.

My point was: Nick had his chance to voice about the QB. They kept Hurts. Not everyone gets a NTC so let's not downplay that.

The organization chose Hurts. Nick was part of that.

Here are the quarterbacks that have NTC’s: Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Kirk cousins, Jalen hurts, Brock Purdy, Josh Allen, Trevor Lawrence and Jared Goff. Most of those contracts have been signed fairly recently. I think teams are willing to concede that so that the player feels like they have some power if they’re being traded on where they want to go.

They did. They did it based on his MVP type season and the progress he made over 3 years. Really at the end of 2022, the Eagles were obviously gonna move on with Jalen hurts. They believed his evolution of him as a passer would provide that he was gonna play like he did in 2022 going forward. They would be stupid to not give him an extension at that point as you’d essentially be playing the gam ethat Dallas did with Dak Prescott and what the commanders did with Kirk cousins. Which turned into a crap show for both of those teams. Furthermore, the Eagles got it down because they want to get guys done early and that contract early on helped by keeping his cap number reasonable