35 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Eagles 2025 are 8-2 ???

Chiefs 2024 were 9-1 - (#1 Seed/Lost Super Bowl LIX)

Chiefs 2023 were 7-3 - (#3 Seed/Won Super Bowl LVIII (Repeat Champion)

Rams 2022 were 3-7 - (Missed Playoffs)

Bucs 2021 were 7-3 - (#2 Seed/Won Division/Lost Divisional)

Chiefs 2020 were 9-1 (#1 Seed/Lost Super Bowl LV)

Pats 2019 were 9-1 (#3 Seed/Won Division/Lost Wild Card

Eagles 2018 were 4-6 (#6 Seed/Wild Card/Lost Divisional

Interesting numbers, Glad the 2018 team didn't end up like the Rams that year. Only one repeat champ (Chiefs). Only one didn't make the playoffs (Rams). But Pats and Chiefs were Dynasties. Rams had a hangover. Bucs made back to the Divisional round (After being an upstart Eagles in the Wild Card) and 2018 Eagles also made the Divisional. Chiefs lost multiple Super Bowls trying to repeat. The 2nd Pats Dynasty the didn't win back to back. 2019 was Brady Swansong year ended by Vabrel but strong title defense. The NFC is in a 30 year back to back Super Bowl drought that I hope the Eagles break this year. The AFC has had 3 back to back winners since the Cowboys (Broncos, Pats, Chiefs). Again Seattle was one yard away, they were close.

1 hour ago, Freshmilk said:

So, they are just waiting for Mickey Goldmill to tell them to switch to southpaw in the 15th round?

They're waiting for Adrian

27 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I can’t get Deniz’s tweet to post properly…

This is freaking me out.

47 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I can’t get Deniz’s tweet to post properly…

Interesting - the overuse of hitches is not a new thing this year but is slightly more pronounced this year.

Kellen Moore loves them as well (and not just at the Eagles) and they were very much a part of last year but what was more interesting for me in that data was that they were equally used in 2023 before his arrival Steichen's O moderated their use a little more. Crossers have never been a big part of the O here - not sure if that is a Hurts thing or something else. Would think Smitty and Brown would thrive with those routes.

11 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Interesting - the overuse of hitches is not a new thing this year but is slightly more pronounced this year.

Kellen Moore loves them as well (and not just at the Eagles) and they were very much a part of last year but what was more interesting for me in that data was that they were equally used in 2023 before his arrival Steichen's O moderated their use a little more. Crossers have never been a big part of the O here - not sure if that is a Hurts thing or something else. Would think Smitty and Brown would thrive with those routes.

Brown was elite with crossers, slants and go routes in Tennessee — a staple in their offense. He came here and blew up production wise so I didn’t kill the offense for not using crossing routes, although I wondered why we didn’t. Now he isn’t all that productive and the offense sucks. It seems like an easy thing to incorporate, not just Brown, but Smitty and Goedert too. Three-level stretch was one of our staples. Mesh-sit-wheel. Where are the stacks and bunch formations to get these easy releases and traffic to crest natural picks on these routes? It’s so infuriating.

Last thought on crossing routes…

They’re freaking great against zone coverage. It changes the shape of zone as they run through defenders to create conflict. If it’s zone you sit and find the gap. If it’s man coverage you run like hell to get open (and you can create natural picks to make this so much easier!).

Hitch routes aren’t even that great against zone, at least on the outside, because it’s basically a man beater and those outside corners are pretty much playing man against you with that route even in zone. There’s no real conflict.

Berman: The Eagles rank No. 30 in the NFL in yards after catch percentage. Their 4.3 yards after the catch per completion is the lowest average during the Sirianni era.

It's coaching malpractice and Lurie needs to step in. It's long overdue. Because Sirianni is obviously on board with this garbage or he'd have made sure the offense evolved a long time ago.

4 hours ago, eagle45 said:

OK, this is great data. But let's take the next step and ask ourselves: WHY??

Kevin Patullo and Nick Siriani are not a 2nd grade Madden beginner who keeps picking the same Madden play. Maybe they are good at designing an offense. Maybe they are terrible at it. But they are professionals. That means they have more routes memorized in the back of their minds than all of us on the blog combined. Siri was a freaking WR himself.

So WHY the incessant hitch routes? Do they just want their receivers to run the same route every time?

I'm sorry, but this keeps going back to what they can and cannot run with Hurts, the tush push, and trying to avoid turnovers. When the Eagles want to test a defense downfield, it's a deep ball on a go route along the sidelines asking a WR to run under it and beat their coverage. Minimal risk or chance of turnover...and if it is, it's a punt. The rest of the field isn't utilized...harder to process, easier to toss an INT.

Every other team in football history runs their hitch routes either as coverage sucking decoys or terminates them just beyond the sticks for first down targets. The Eagles run them short of the sticks and target these routes. The coverage is softer, DBs are less likely to jump routes short of the sticks, and a reception gets them in tush push range. Kellen Moore did the same thing last year. It just worked better.

This is a foundational principle of the Eagles passing offense. These hitch routes are both what Hurts is comfortable throwing and what the coaches are comfortable having him throw. The whole offense is built around getting into short yardage situations. Last year, they reliably did so with big runs on early downs, more Hurts runs with success, and efficient short completions with these routes. This year, the running aspect is gone and the league has caught on to their approach.

Siri has literally, openly said, they call plays like it's 1st and 9 and the defense doesn't know it. The hitch route obsession is a product of that approach. They didn't forget the other routes and the rest of the playbook at home. I don't know how good it's going to look if they open it up with Jalen Hurts throwing all over the place. And neither do the coaches. That's why they won't do it.

I totally agree that we have been using hitches a lot the last couple of years as well.

I also think there is a lot of merit to what you are saying - they favour an offensive structure which includes route concepts which by design minimise chances of turnover / game-changing plays.

But the issue is that D's have caught up and are shutting down the run a lot better this year, whilst this offense has failed to adjust and evolve has. There has to be a willingness to slightly tinker and open up the playbook more to give our elite playmakers more of a chance. At what stage do the coaches adjust their approach a little bit more.

4 hours ago, RLC said:

We didn't run this offense with Steichen, and it was the best offense we ever ran.

I think the success of tush push combined with the 20 Hurts turnovers season in 2023 + 7 turnovers in the first 4 games last year fundamentally changed Hurts and the Eagles approach to the priorities on offense and emphasis on ball security.

2023 till Buccs game Hurts averaged 1.23 TO / game and the Eagles record was 13-9

Since that Buccs game he has had an incredible run with only 7 turnovers in 24 games including the playoffs, for an average of 0.29 TO / game. Eagles record in those games is 22 - 2.

Yes, the change in D-coordinators has a lot to do with that win / loss record as well but I think those stats put into perspective why so much of the Eagles O design is geared towards preventing TOs.

11 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Not saying it's him but Graham is definitely one of his sources. I can't ever see him crapping on anyone though. Maybe Gunn put his own spin or blew it out of proportion to what exactly he heard.

I do question how strong his sources still are in the building. He was one of the better ones but it's been awhile since he left NBC Philly and did the part time/youtube thing.

Yeah, he may be showing his age a bit and simply wanting to remain relevant. I have no doubt he has some info and wants to believe it but he most certainly may be blowing it out of proportion and not thinking thru it enough. Check his show with Ray Diddy yesterday where it looks like Gunn is struggling with it a bit to me. Ray does his usual Ray and stays as neutral as he can but you can tell Ray is certainly not convinced it is at the level Gunn has described.

The Hurts stuff comes up about halfway thru the vid.

7 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Too many games won by razor thin margins. Youd think theyd turn it on for 1 or 2 more drives in each game to ensure a win. Rather than getting lucky with a drop, a penalty, not being able to run out clock on offense and putting it on the D to make a play at the end of games...

That theory doesnt really make any sense.

I don't think it's playing possum as much as playing risk averse percentage football to avoid turnovers at all costs, as long as it's winning, the razor thin margins are more a consequence of the strength of schedule as anything else, that said there are plainly other factors why it's not working, they don't look like an offense that likes each other much at the moment, equally I do think it's notable that it's only one of our big 3 receiving targets that isn't getting yards, but it's the one guy who makes noise about it and I think that is skewing perceptions a lot. Smitty and Goedert were both going along at career year pace until we tried to force it down AJ's throat at weekend.

The coaching staff need to get the offense in and have a frank clear the air meeting, hell let 'em take swings at each other if needs be as long as everyone comes out on the same page.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but there were some things that left me encouraged about the offense.

While the results were still horrific, I thought they at least TRIED to open it up more last week, but the conditions were simply too much to overcome.

Don’t get me wrong, there is still a long way to go in terms of play design, but this week should give us a better idea of where they are overall.

Now, the penalties… 🤬

7 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Berman: The Eagles rank No. 30 in the NFL in yards after catch percentage. Their 4.3 yards after the catch per completion is the lowest average during the Sirianni era.

That also speaks to the hitch route. There is not yac after a reception on that route.

Several things to try. More pitch outs, quick swing passes, and RB screens is one option. I think getting more touches for Tank and Shipley is a good idea as well. As we hit the final key games and eventually the post season, more called Hurts runs will be on the menu but I think that’s still a few weeks off. I don’t see the passing game opening up much until we are forced to do so from falling behind or at least losing another game (or two).

53 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Several things to try. More pitch outs, quick swing passes, and RB screens is one option. I think getting more touches for Tank and Shipley is a good idea as well. As we hit the final key games and eventually the post season, more called Hurts runs will be on the menu but I think that’s still a few weeks off. I don’t see the passing game opening up much until we are forced to do so from falling behind or at least losing another game (or two).

They just need to add some variety, when we line up everyone knows what's coming, they need to put doubt back in D Coordinators mind, because at the moment they're diagnosing the play early and teeing off on us every other snap.

8 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Last thought on crossing routes…

They’re freaking great against zone coverage. It changes the shape of zone as they run through defenders to create conflict. If it’s zone you sit and find the gap. If it’s man coverage you run like hell to get open (and you can create natural picks to make this so much easier!).

Hitch routes aren’t even that great against zone, at least on the outside, because it’s basically a man beater and those outside corners are pretty much playing man against you with that route even in zone. There’s no real conflict.

Crossing routes by themselves are more man-beaters than zone beaters. Crossing routes paired with other routes are zone-killers. Of course, we do neither.

12 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

They just need to add some variety, when we line up everyone knows what's coming, they need to put doubt back in D Coordinators mind, because at the moment they're diagnosing the play early and teeing off on us every other snap.

Sirianni and Patullo have repetition compulsion. It's painful to watch.

31 minutes ago, RLC said:

Crossing routes by themselves are more man-beaters than zone beaters. Crossing routes paired with other routes are zone-killers. Of course, we do neither.

Sure, but they’re designed to beat both coverages. Think of that miss over the middle by Goff when targeting St. Brown. It was a crossing route vs zone coverage. Cooper picked him up and there was a linebacker underneath. Goff expected him to throttle down in the open space before reaching the LB but he didn’t and the pass went behind him.

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Sure, but they’re designed to beat both coverages. Think of that miss over the middle by Goff when targeting St. Brown. It was a crossing route vs zone coverage. Cooper picked him up and there was a linebacker underneath. Goff expected him to throttle down in the open space before reaching the LB but he didn’t and the pass went behind him.

Yeah, crossers might be the primary read against man as it has the potential for a quick beat; against zone often the crosser will wind up in a vacated zone after the coverage was run off by another route, so a later read requiring some anticipation.

30 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

I don't believe this... Yet. I'm not saying no way, more like maybe?

It’s really the sound effects for me