40 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

I believe it’s more the predictable 3 routes we strictly run week in and week out.

BG on the "sources" criticizing Hurts (so it's not him).

13 hours ago, RLC said:

We didn't run this offense with Steichen, and it was the best offense we ever ran.

This. I tend to think Steichen, having 2 years with Hurts, was the only OC we had that actually knew how to call plays for him. He didn't do as well in his first year calling plays for him, though him taking over from Siri still looked way better than it has. I think the reality is in the middle there. I also think Steichen was the last coach to really push Hurts, but he has the relationship to make him buy in. It seems that as Hurts has gotten more accolades, he feels more entitled to more of an influence on the O and that really doesn't seem to work well. A lot of this is on our inability to run the ball with the RBs, though. Just like Detroit, our passing game is built off of having an effective running game and with our OL woes this season and the fanatical runs into the middle of the line that aren't working without a healthy line and with the change at RG. With Becton there, it seemed like there was more trust that everyone would win their battles and the holes would be there.

So, you take another fist year play caller, who is giving Hurts too much influence (or is too risk averse), a running game that is not pulling it's weight, and 2 coaches (Siri and KP) that have adjustment issues and you get what we have here: An impotent offense being dragged along by a D playing out of its mind. We need to get Hurts to trust the OC and the OC to push him into mild discomfort that he buys into and feel confident that it'll work if he stretches there. It's still better than Brian Johnson (or at least it feels so to me), but not by a lot.

56 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Isn't this like the first game they're ahead of McCarthy's record last year? And McCarthy was starting Cooper Rush at this point.

22 hours ago, vikas83 said:

I just wanted to comment on this.

1) Who is #1 then? I want to know which player is running the most hitch routes in the NFL.

2) Why go to 16? Why not 20? Why not 15?

3) Is it because AJ is at 16, so that is where they naturally wanted to stop at? Is there someone else in the 17-20 range that is skewing the data?

4) Why not give us the top twenty list from a source that most of us do not have access to and make the argument from there?

I am not disputing the data in any way. I just think they picked a couple of arbitrary numbers to try to prove a point we all already know, to make them seem like they found something revolutionary.

Failure of the coaching staff to keep putting him on the field.

18 minutes ago, Eriv20 said:

I believe it’s more the predictable 3 routes we strictly run week in and week out.

RTK has been on an attack of Brown

Per Nextgen stats, Brown’s average speed per route ran is faster than last season.

2 minutes ago, twistr said:

This. I tend to think Steichen, having 2 years with Hurts, was the only OC we had that actually knew how to call plays for him. He didn't do as well in his first year calling plays for him, though him taking over from Siri still looked way better than it has. I think the reality is in the middle there. I also think Steichen was the last coach to really push Hurts, but he has the relationship to make him buy in. It seems that as Hurts has gotten more accolades, he feels more entitled to more of an influence on the O and that really doesn't seem to work well. A lot of this is on our inability to run the ball with the RBs, though. Just like Detroit, our passing game is built off of having an effective running game and with out OL woes this season and the fanatical runs into the middle of the line that aren't working without a healthy line and with the change at RG. With Becton there, it seemed like there was more trust that everyone would win their battles and the holes would be there.

So, you take another fist year play caller, who is giving Hurts too much influence (or is too risk averse), a running game that is not pulling it's weight, and 2 coaches (Siri and KP) that have adjustment issues and you get what we have here: An impotent offense being dragged along by a D playing out of its mind. We need to get Hurts to trust the OC and the OC to push him into mild discomfort that he buys into and feel confident that it'll work if he stretches there. It's still better than Brian Johnson, but not by a lot.

I think Johnson was done dirty and Kellen Moore was made to look a genius by the signing of Saquon giving the running game a level of juice a magnitude above anything we'd put else we'd put out there since prime Shady, I think if Brian Johnson had got a second year with Saquon and Vic's '24 defense, we'd have done at least the same as last year. I think Steichen benefitted from being settled in the job and willing to raise his voice and promote his own idea's a bit more.

I think there's a very real risk that we dump Patullo at seasons end and end up having this discussion again as Sirianni insists on his offense as the baseline with the new guy in 2026.

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

They just need to add some variety, when we line up everyone knows what's coming, they need to put doubt back in D Coordinators mind, because at the moment they're diagnosing the play early and teeing off on us every other snap.

Sure, several options.

5 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I think Johnson was done dirty and Kellen Moore was made to look a genius by the signing of Saquon giving the running game a level of juice a magnitude above anything we'd put else we'd put out there since prime Shady, I think if Brian Johnson had got a second year with Saquon and Vic's '24 defense, we'd have done at least the same as last year. I think Steichen benefitted from being settled in the job and willing to raise his voice and promote his own idea's a bit more.

I think there's a very real risk that we dump Patullo at seasons end and end up having this discussion again as Sirianni insists on his offense as the baseline with the new guy in 2026.

The O was just as maddening for much of last season. Saquon just carried the team till they got it together after the Jags game. Moore getting a pass by some is baffling. Ya we won the SB but honestly for pretty much all of Siri’s tenure the O has been inconsistent and relies on ‘wow’ plays.

8 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

I think the success of tush push combined with the 20 Hurts turnovers season in 2023 + 7 turnovers in the first 4 games last year fundamentally changed Hurts and the Eagles approach to the priorities on offense and emphasis on ball security.

2023 till Buccs game Hurts averaged 1.23 TO / game and the Eagles record was 13-9

Since that Buccs game he has had an incredible run with only 7 turnovers in 24 games including the playoffs, for an average of 0.29 TO / game. Eagles record in those games is 22 - 2.

Yes, the change in D-coordinators has a lot to do with that win / loss record as well but I think those stats put into perspective why so much of the Eagles O design is geared towards preventing TOs.

This is basically what it is. They’ve become so risk averse since 2023 that they’ve had incredible results from it based on a W/L standpoint and they don’t want to stray from it.

I think conceptually, the passing game isn’t much different than it was last year. Moore felt like he had a better sense of calling the game than KP and had more wrinkles, but it’s not like they were lightning it up every week. Hurts’ Minnesota game this year was basically the Cinci game last year. People were losing it on the passing game last year after the Carolina game.

The biggest difference is that you’re not going to have a 2k rusher in Saquon this year. That covered up a lot of issues last year.

But there is a fine line between playing not to turn the ball over versus being a little more aggressive.

12 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Offense may not be but defense could carry them again

Plenty of times a teams defense won the SB

I'd say the ultra conservative approach is working great considering we are 8-2 with the #1 seed in the NFC after a brutal gauntlet of a schedule.

Sounds like most of you clowns would prefer being 5-5 while turning the ball over much more, but at least having some pretty pass plays!

The team clearly wants to protect the ball as much as possible and not turn it over over and they take it to an extreme. Is there an easy way to see what routes have the highest percentage of turnovers? Is the hitch route the least turnover worthy play? Are plays over the middle like crossers the highest? The offense outside of Steen is the exact same as last year. Patullo is the only other new component and he was still involved. It has to be some type of analytics driven decision... right?

6 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

I'd say the ultra conservative approach is working great considering we are 8-2 with the #1 seed in the NFC after a brutal gauntlet of a schedule.

Sounds like most of you clowns would prefer being 5-5 while turning the ball over much more, but at least having some pretty pass plays!

I'd rather be 8-2 and winning 30-10 every week instead of 16-10.

From Eagles reddit:

The Eagles offense is turning the ball over at the lowest rate in the league at 3.9%. Every other team is turning the ball over on at least 5% of their drives.

Just now, Sack that QB said:

I'd rather be 8-2 and winning 30-10 every week instead of 16-10.

And I'd rather be a billionaire with a harem of supermodels.

23 hours ago, austinfan said:

The problem with the Eagle offense is simple, it's not built around Hurts or Barkley or Brown, it was built around the OL.

They've had an elite OL for so long it's defined their approach, we can run with anyone, we can buy enough time to make deep routes work.

So KISS, avoid mistakes and just dominate at the LOS.

Problem this season is this may be the worst OL we've seen in a long time. It's not bad, it's average, below average run blocking, above average pass blocking - but since they can no longer run the ball, and deep routes often require Hurts to scramble, the vanilla approach doesn't work as well. And it has exposed Brown and Patullo, Brown can't get quick separation (lacks an explosive first step that wins on slants), and Patullo hasn't adjusted to the limitations imposed by an average OL (need more quick hitting plays, more misdirection, etc., see AR playbook). The tush push is no longer money in the bank, which means playcalling changes (no catches in front of the sticks to set up 4th and 1).

Not sure they can adjust in mid-stream, they didn't go into the season expecting Dickinson to be a shell of himself, Lane slowed by nagging injuries until he was knocked out, Jurgen's knees going. Basically, they have to throw away their playbook, based on last season's success and reinvent themselves on the fly - and that's asking a lot of any team.

Yup, I remember after about week 3 saying this OL is broken, dickerson and jurgens both playing on one leg, johnson still good but regressing and Mailata taking a step back as well. At that point Steen was the eagles 2nd best OL behind Lane and thats a problem as they need him to be the 5th best.

Im not sure jurgens ever gets back to where he was, back injuries can be career enders for OL, and Dickerson after each injury just gets a little worse every year.

And yeah I mean over the last few years the eagles OL has been ranked top 3 in the league and this year theyve been just average which like you say is really negatively impacting the rest of the offense.

I dont think AJs struggles have much to do with decline of O line, I think his hammy is still Raw and I also think the lack of RPOs that gave AJ more room to operate has hurt him .

RPOs this year are far and few between, its mostly been inside zone and crack toss with the obligatory 5 wide qb draw.

It doesnt help when anytime the team is in 3rd and 1 they tush push instead of hitting a play action bomb.

The whole offense is based around getting to 3rd and 1 to run a tush push.

Honestly I hope they ban the play so the eagles can open up the offense, itll force them to be more aggressive on short yardage downs.

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Offense may not be but defense could carry them again

Plenty of times a teams defense won the SB

Yeah my response to Dan and any other talking head coming out with the 'they ain't winning with this offense' is who is it that's going to stop us, we've beaten all the other big contenders in the NFC outside the Bears and Seahawks and even their fans think they're paper tigers.

The AFC looks nothing special this year, the Bills have a golden opportunity on an easy schedule and a down year for the Chiefs, Ravens and Bengals and they're managing to lose their division to the Patriots, I'd take us to beat the Broncos in a second game no way the defense collapses like that again.

1 minute ago, justwinbaby said:

The team clearly wants to protect the ball as much as possible and not turn it over over and they take it to an extreme. Is there an easy way to see what routes have the highest percentage of turnovers? Is the hitch route the least turnover worthy play? Are plays over the middle like crossers the highest? The offense outside of Steen is the exact same as last year. Patullo is the only other new component and he was still involved. It has to be some type of analytics driven decision... right?

Every other OL has been out/injured/dinged. They all have acknowledged that they (the OL) are not playing as well as last season.

What we witnessed last season will probably end up being the greatest OL performance in franchise history. What we are witnessing this season isn't even close.

Just now, Arsenal79 said:

And I'd rather be a billionaire with a harem of supermodels.

The Eagles being one of the top scoring teams in the league is not an unrealistic achievement. They have the highest paid unit in the league.

Your implication is they can't scheme an offense to be more explosive without turning the ball over a bunch of times. Which is crazy. Unless the QB isn't capable of doing it. And if you can't run a functional offense without the QB turning into a turnover machine then he's not a franchise QB.

4 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I'd rather be 8-2 and winning 30-10 every week instead of 16-10.

Because when you win the Lombardi, they supersize it based on in-season scoring margin.

10 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

I'd say the ultra conservative approach is working great considering we are 8-2 with the #1 seed in the NFC after a brutal gauntlet of a schedule.

Sounds like most of you clowns would prefer being 5-5 while turning the ball over much more, but at least having some pretty pass plays!

Nope- we just want our offense to be able to carry the team with more consistency and not demand that the defense have to run out on to the field every 2 minutes needing a stop to keep us in the game.