Just now, eagle45 said:

I see this team as a team and locker room full of winners, a really good defense...and an offense that has flat out lost it's grip on executing and competing around a league average level. It's just become one of the worst offenses in the league. KP has a big hand in this, but there's no light switch from bad to good that he's sitting there staring at and refusing to flip.

Things change quickly in this league and the offense is what it is...very bad. No need to wring hands over it or make this more complex than it needs to be.

Since week 4, their success rate in every game except the giants games had been below league average.

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Poor communication between Q and Carter. Frankly it’s probably because it’s really the first significant snaps they played together.

Yeah, I'm not going to kill Carter for it. He was having to play slot and then safety, and the whole secondary was a mess.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

In fairness i think Doug and sirianni kind of have some of the same problems. Neither are great play designers, play callers. Their offenses weren’t innovative and both needed really good OCs working with them to maximize the talent and offense. Once those OCs went away the offense became very predictable and stale (we forget since it’s been 5-6 years but there were videos all 2019 through the dolphins game pointing this out). The difference is Doug is not conservative whereas sirianni has some aggressiveness in moments but ultimately more conservative

I think Doug had his issues but I think he is miles better than Sirianni as a play caller. 2017 was an all time great season. They never achieved those heights again, but Doug at least showed a ceiling of being an elite caller that Sirianni has never shown. And also Carson Wentz turned out to be total dog crap after the injury, so it's hard to evaluate just how good or bad Doug was as a play caller when the QB stinks. But I do think Lurie wants that elite tier offensive mind as his head coach. He just hasn't been able to get that guy. They've been lucky to win without getting that guy, but I think if he had his way, that's the type of head coach he'd get. And I think having a roster this good that Sirianni has, failing with this roster is more egregious than Doug failing with that older quickly declining roster.

The one thing they have to do on defense is keep DeJean at NCB, or if you are forced to move him, S. I don't want to rip him because Pickens is damn good and it's hard to ask him to move outside full time in the middle of the game, but as soon as Jackson went out and DeJean went over, the defense went down a notable step. I trust Fangio but all moving DeJean did was lower the bar opposite Quinyon and also hurt NCB at the same time.

It's honestly maddening that Fangio doesn't trust Ringo or Bennett to hold their ground so much so that he has to put his star player out of position.

We can debate Hurts, Patullo, Siri, and AJ Brown's role in this mess on offense. Changing any of those things is really complex. Changing playcaller/OC midseason for a team in a playoff push is really complex. Changing the QB (not happening) or what the QB is asking to do is really complex. They aren't benching AJ.

Here's what I don't understand. The role the OL and Barkley have in this is less complex. You don't have to bench Barkley. You just need to decrease his utilization and give more carries to Tank. That's not some big, difficult, irreversible, complicated decision. The OL is bad. They've been BETTER with healthy backups in there. No one is getting benched; they are injured. If someone is not healthy enough to play at a high level; DONT PLAY THEM. Pryor, Toth, and Fred Johnson have all played major snaps in this offense before. Start offensive linemen that are healthy enough to pull. It's not complicated. Making changes here is as simple as saying that Lane/Jurgens/Dickerson are not healthy enough to start. You can even dress them as emergency backups. No one is getting benched. You are tacking no risks. It's completely reversible.

I understand the hesitation to commit to some of the bigger aforementioned changes. There is real risk there. But the OL and RB rotation? That's low hanging fruit. No one gets thrown under the bus, everything is reversible......but they refuse.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The one thing they have to do on defense is keep DeJean at NCB, or if you are forced to move him, S. I don't want to rip him because Pickens is damn good and it's hard to ask him to move outside full time in the middle of the game, but as soon as Jackson went out and DeJean went over, the defense went down a notable step. I trust Fangio but all moving DeJean did was lower the bar opposite Quinyon and also hurt NCB at the same time.

It's honestly maddening that Fangio doesn't trust Ringo or Bennett to hold their ground so much so that he has to put his start player out of position.

If we don't sign anyone, feels like Coop may have to play safety with Brown (assuming Reed and Mukuba are out). I'm guessing it's Q and Ringo/Bennett outside (I'd guess Ringo), Carter in the slot, and Coop and Brown at safety.

So we're REALLY gonna need the pass rush to get home.

Just now, vikas83 said:

I'd say Doug was clearly a better play caller/designed (Nick doesn't even call plays), especially early in his tenure. He was on fire in 2017, and it wasn't just being aggressive. Doug's downfall was when he lost Reich as a balancing force (sound familiar). Doug needed Frank to play devil's advocate and push things, and Nick needs a Steichen or Moore to build off his main philosophy (protect the ball).

If we want to win -- more passing, more Tank, less Barkley.

Doug maybe better but i don’t think it was significantly better. His 2017 was. But his 2016 wasn’t great after the first 4 games. outside of 2017 i don’t think his creativeness and play calling was great. Even in 2018, foles and offense was great against rams and Houston then the offense began declining. They scored 32 and 30 then 24 to 16 to 14. Imo Doug went to Jacksonville and had some of the same issues that he saw for much of his time after 2017. Inconsistent offense with flashes of brilliance but largely inconsistency. Doug May be better than sirianni but neither has that as their strong suit. Both need viable OCs that can counter their weakness and help elevate their offense. Unfortunately you hire that guy and the offense looks great then he’s getting poached

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

We can debate Hurts, Patullo, Siri, and AJ Brown's role in this mess on offense. Changing any of those things is really complex. Changing playcaller/OC midseason for a team in a playoff push is really complex. Changing the QB (not happening) or what the QB is asking to do is really complex. They aren't benching AJ.

Here's what I don't understand. The role the OL and Barkley have in this is less complex. You don't have to bench Barkley. You just need to decrease his utilization and give more carries to Tank. That's not some big, difficult, irreversible, complicated decision. The OL is bad. They've been BETTER with healthy backups in there. No one is getting benched; they are injured. If someone is not healthy enough to play at a high level; DONT PLAY THEM. Pryor, Toth, and Fred Johnson have all played major snaps in this offense before. Start offensive linemen that are healthy enough to pull. It's not complicated. Making changes here is as simple as saying that Lane/Jurgens/Dickerson are not healthy enough to start. You can even dress them as emergency backups. No one is getting benched. You are tacking no risks. It's completely reversible.

I understand the hesitation to commit to some of the bigger aforementioned changes. There is real risk there. But the OL and RB rotation? That's low hanging fruit. No one gets thrown under the bus, everything is reversible......but they refuse.

I'd play Toth over Jurgens for sure at this point. Not sure I'm sold on Pryor over Dickerson - have we ever seen Pryor at LG? I know he played RG and played well last year.

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The one thing they have to do on defense is keep DeJean at NCB, or if you are forced to move him, S. I don't want to rip him because Pickens is damn good and it's hard to ask him to move outside full time in the middle of the game, but as soon as Jackson went out and DeJean went over, the defense went down a notable step. I trust Fangio but all moving DeJean did was lower the bar opposite Quinyon and also hurt NCB at the same time.

It's honestly maddening that Fangio doesn't trust Ringo or Bennett to hold their ground so much so that he has to put his start player out of position.

Yep. There are multiple things that lost that game. And considering they barely lost, if any one of them doesn't happen, they escape with a W.

But an understated cause amongst them was making 2 positions worse instead of 1 when Jackson went out. Ringo isn't good, but he's really only marginally worse than Jackson...who was already barely doing anything to stop Pickens. Vic basically took DeJean out of the game with that swap.

Seriously, how bad is Bennett that he can't get on the field over Ringo, or moving Coop outside?

Just now, vikas83 said:

I'd play Toth over Jurgens for sure at this point. Not sure I'm sold on Pryor over Dickerson - have we ever seen Pryor at LG? I know he played RG and played well last year.

I'm not sold on it either, but Dickerson is an all-pro on a big contract. He's not getting "benched." Teams have dressed injured stars and kept them as backups before. I would sit Dickerson all week, have Pryor practice with the 1's, dress Dickerson as the backup LG, and start Pryor. If he's a disaster, you can go right back to Dickerson. Dickerson and Jurgens both can't even pull. All they can do is kick back in their phone booth. Can't push anyone forward. The potential upside of getting them back to baseline with more rest combined with the possibility that their healthy backups are actually better, IMO, makes it a no brainer.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Seriously, how bad is Bennett that he can't get on the field over Ringo, or moving Coop outside?

Vic is probably the best DC in the NFL. But he's also stubborn. He's got a doghouse that I think has engulfed good players in the past and could be engulfing players now that (even though they may be sub-par) still make the most sense. I don't know that Bennett has earned a spot in the doghouse necessarily, but he hasn't entered that circle of trust where he even exists to Vic.

6 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I think Doug had his issues but I think he is miles better than Sirianni as a play caller. 2017 was an all time great season. They never achieved those heights again, but Doug at least showed a ceiling of being an elite caller that Sirianni has never shown. And also Carson Wentz turned out to be total dog crap after the injury, so it's hard to evaluate just how good or bad Doug was as a play caller when the QB stinks. But I do think Lurie wants that elite tier offensive mind as his head coach. He just hasn't been able to get that guy. They've been lucky to win without getting that guy, but I think if he had his way, that's the type of head coach he'd get. And I think having a roster this good that Sirianni has, failing with this roster is more egregious than Doug failing with that older quickly declining roster.

No offense to Doug, his 2017 is an outlier in his entire career. He was never able to replicate that outside of a handful of games the rest of his coaching career. Whether that was here or with the jags.

Part of Carson’s issues in 2019 was lack of talent but also Doug refusing to get him outside the pocket when the analytics continuously said he was significantly better. We had this discussion routinely on here about Doug not properly utilizing his personnel similar to what we do with Calcaterra and not throwing to Aj for quarters and halves at a time.

I don’t disagree that sirianni failing with this roster is more egregious. However that isn’t the same thing as both have the same kind of faults that prevents them from having the type of consistent offensive success year in and year out. The reality is sirianni is wasting a more talented roster by frankly doug and sirianni when the talent begins to deteriorate (OL this year and 2018-2019 for Doug) weren’t capable enough with their design, play calling and utilization of players to get more out of their guys they did have. Can say Doug had less talent which is true. I’m not going to argue that however they also misused personnel and their playbook was stale. I know cause i gave a ton of examples on it on the old board along with all 22 that broke that down.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I'd play Toth over Jurgens for sure at this point. Not sure I'm sold on Pryor over Dickerson - have we ever seen Pryor at LG? I know he played RG and played well last year.

I’d prefer seeing Lampkin over Toth. IMO Toth isn’t good either. Seemingly everyone has success with the giants. I kind of think eventually Toth is going to be exposed more. I rather see Lampkin or Kendall if we are doing that. Might not trust them as they are young, but they could just be more talented than someone like Toth

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d prefer seeing Lampkin over Toth. IMO Toth isn’t good either. Seemingly everyone has success with the giants. I rather see Lampkin or Kendall if we are doing that.

I don't pretend to know enough about each backup OL to have an opinion. All I know is Anthony Munoz and Larry Allen on one leg suck too. I'd rather see a healthy backup than Jurgens OR Dickerson at this point. We are making the present OL worse and, much more importantly, eliminating any possibility of getting these guys right without resting them. No one wants Jurgens to play, but I don't want Dickerson to either.

19 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I see this team as a team and locker room full of winners, a really good defense...and an offense that has flat out lost it's grip on executing and competing around a league average level. It's just become one of the worst offenses in the league. KP has a big hand in this, but there's no light switch from bad to good that he's sitting there staring at and refusing to flip.

Things change quickly in this league and the offense is what it is...very bad. No need to wring hands over it or make this more complex than it needs to be.

The lightswitch is a new boss. It allows everyone to re-set and hear one, new coherent voice.

I'm a huge Nolan Smith fan...last 2 games have been disappointing. I thought he was a huge explosive boost in his first game back. He seems to have completely faded into the abyss since.
Of the long list of things that would have won the game for us if they didn't screw up, the pass rush is on it. Up 3 TDs if the rest of the entire team packs it in but your pass rush still shows up...you win the game.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

I don't pretend to know enough about each backup OL to have an opinion. All I know is Anthony Munoz and Larry Allen on one leg suck too. I'd rather see a healthy backup than Jurgens OR Dickerson at this point. We are making the present OL worse and, much more importantly, eliminating any possibility of getting these guys right without resting them. No one wants Jurgens to play, but I don't want Dickerson to either.

IMO i said this months ago, jurgens shouldn’t have been playing at the start of the season. He probably wasn’t going to be himself again until late in the year or 2026. Back surgery isn’t something that’s insignificant. Iy can be a life changer even if you aren’t a football player. I thought they’d have been more conservative as he didn’t have it til mid-end February and that’s frankly 6-7 months from start of the season. I still can’t believe he was out there week 1. Jmo but i think he’s also worried about his back when he plays. As someone with a current back issue and previous ones, you always think about it in the back of your mind if this is going to hurt it again. Learning to trust your back again is mentally tough to do. It takes a while

17 minutes ago, pisceschica said:

How did you feel about Thursday?

Expecting a loss, DAL may have a better chance vs KC(injuries to Trey Smith & Wallace yesterday) than DET though. DAL isn't going to stop the DET offense in DET.

It really doesn't matter at this point, the season is a wash. DAL isn't making postseason, even if they did win out (KC and DET next two weeks, nah ain't happening...) it would be a coin toss getting in. I would rather they lose to KC and beat DET on the road if I could pick one of the next two games. It would make it that much more difficult for DET to make the postseason. Playing on the road in the 1st round against PHI, LAR, SEA, or SF isn't something I want to see, unless it was PHI and that's only because of the rivalry and the EMB makes it fun. DAL is going nowhere this season.

I think it is very likley the NFC is represented by 3 teams out of the NFCW (LAR, SEA, and SF). SF has a soft schedule ahead, 2 teams out of the NFCN (GB, CHI, and DET are going to beat each other up trying to get the last two spots. A lot really depends on how real the Bears are they have a tough finishing schedule as does GB but they play each other twice, PHI out of the NFCE, and either CAR or TB out of the NFCS, depending how long Baker is out. Essentially if you don't win the division in the NFCE or NFCS you're done.

I would rather DAL play some good competitive fun games, let some younger players (Overshown, Revel, Carson) get more reps, maybe go 3-3 or 2-4 to get better draft position. What I expect in DAL last 6 games is 2-4:

KC - L

@DET - L

MIN - W

LAC - L

@WAS - L

@NYG - W 50/50

Final NFC seeding could look something like this:

1. LAR or PHI (LAR still have to go to CAR and SEA and they can throw up a stinker at both places)

2. PHI or LAR

3. NFCN Champion (Prob GB)

4. CAR or TB (I am thinking TB depending on Baker's injury, CAR has a pretty tough schedule to finish and TB's is softer than SF finishing schedule)

5. SF

6. SEA

7. NFCN runner up (Prob CHI)

Eagles need to hire Vic Fangio as a consultant for the offense.

So here's the $1 billion question. Is this loss more 2024 Commanders loss or more 2023 49ers loss? (I think it's somewhere in between).

In support of the former, I remember posting about the unending list of things that had to go wrong to BARELY lose that Commanders game. A list of things that seemingly could all never happen in sequence again. And they didn't...so that's why they won the SB.

There is a little bit of that to this Cowboys loss. The offense is still sitting squarely at rock bottom (it can't stay there, can it? can it??), disappearance of a pretty good pass rush, 2 consecutive injuries in the secondary against maybe the best wideout duo we'll see this year, a missed Elliott FG, 2 turnovers from an Eagles team that never turns it over....all to BARELY lose. That's a long combination to reliably dial in to make it happen again.

The other side of that? We've got that sputtering 2023 feeling of barely winning games...regardless of the competition...and one entire side of the ball that feels like it cannot compete against anyone they face. And the soul sucking notion that the team knows it.

uncharacteristic? You are 26th in penalties called against you and 27th in penalty yards lol

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So here's the $1 billion question. Is this loss more 2024 Commanders loss or more 2023 49ers loss? (I think it's somewhere in between).

In support of the former, I remember posting about the unending list of things that had to go wrong to BARELY lose that Commanders game. A list of things that seemingly could all never happen in sequence again. And they didn't...so that's why they won the SB.

There is a little bit of that to this Cowboys loss. The offense is still sitting squarely at rock bottom (it can't stay there, can it? can it??), disappearance of a pretty good pass rush, 2 consecutive injuries in the secondary against maybe the best wideout duo we'll see this year, a missed Elliott FG, 2 turnovers from an Eagles team that never turns it over....all to BARELY lose. That's a long combination to reliably dial in to make it happen again.

The other side of that? We've got that sputtering 2023 feeling of barely winning games...regardless of the competition...and one entire side of the ball that feels like it cannot compete against anyone they face. And the soul sucking notion that the team knows it.

it’s similar to the broncos game this year. Curious how we respond. If we do what we did against the giants after the broncos then this team is dead in the water.

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

No halftime adjustments. If it is, it's definitely not the kind were looking for with our offensive roster.

One can only wonder if it had not been for the slew of penalties, if this offense would have created a spark that is desperately needed.