These guys are really solid at breaking down the film and the epic failures in game planning and play calling.

1 minute ago, jojodancer said:

This board will be dead silent after Hurts's stellar performance against the Chargers. But no, we should look into Carson Strong. The QB ain't the problem here. And the haters will once again have egg in their face when he gets past this little hurdle. Yes. It won't always look like you want it to look, but the dude is a flat out winner.

He's part of the problem, but Sirianni is too. Hurts basically hamstrings Sirianni, because if he didn't, then Sirianni would hamstring Hurts. People always talk about 'football mind' as a way to put down Sirianni, but this is super overrated. Yes, it's obvious when people have great football minds that adapt well to all kinds of players, but even average minds can do fine when matched with players that fit their philosophy. The situation with Sirianni and Hurts is the exact opposite of that.

16 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I think the most logical conclusion is that the coaches are calling it this way to minimize turnovers. Passes over the middle are more likely to be picked. Hurts is more likely to be injured/fumble on QB runs. Anytime we are down, you can see the play calling and Hurts' decision making change -- he gets more aggressive and throws into tighter windows when we are down multiple scores.

It's this way because they are coaching it this way. Nick is obsessed with not turning it over.

It was reported that it was Hurts himself that doesn't want to run.

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

It was reported that it was Hurts himself that doesn't want to run.

Hurts isn't the one who calls the plays. The coaches don't have to listen. This is like blaming an 8 year old for being fat and not eating his vegetables -- the parents are the responsible one.

I get that the WIP crowd wants to blame Hurts for everything, but this is pathetic. There's zero evidence of Jalen not being willing to run plays that are called. Now, missing open receivers? Yeah, that's on him. The design of the offense isn't on him or the players, that's coaching.

14 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

He's part of the problem, but Sirianni is too. Hurts basically hamstrings Sirianni, because if he didn't, then Sirianni would hamstring Hurts. People always talk about 'football mind' as a way to put down Sirianni, but this is super overrated. Yes, it's obvious when people have great football minds that adapt well to all kinds of players, but even average minds can do fine when matched with players that fit their philosophy. The situation with Sirianni and Hurts is the exact opposite of that.

The guy has a track record and gone to 2 Superbowls and performed in legendary fashion in both vs. the dynasty team of our era. With a good defense in 2022-2023 (and not a rigged field and ref crew) he would have two trophies in his case. But still has one. And I see a couple more coming before it's over. We won with this guy and that goes a long way. Only 27 and still can improve on his game.

Everyone has their plate of blame to own. Hurts has input in what he does and does not want to do in the offense. The coaching isn't doing a good job marrying what they want to do with what the QB wants to do with what is the most successful for the team.

20 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I think the most logical conclusion is that the coaches are calling it this way to minimize turnovers. Passes over the middle are more likely to be picked. Hurts is more likely to be injured/fumble on QB runs. Anytime we are down, you can see the play calling and Hurts' decision making change -- he gets more aggressive and throws into tighter windows when we are down multiple scores.

It's this way because they are coaching it this way. Nick is obsessed with not turning it over.

With the money Jeff invested in that offense and the reports that he loves dynamic passing offenses I'm shocked he signed off on that. On top of not scoring they are wearing out the defense. They have already played a few extra games worth of snaps vs last year and I think that's why they have looked bad twice on short weeks.

Being careful is wise, but I don't get the mentality of playing scared. Turnovers happen. They aren't ideal, but there is a balance, and they are way too far over the line in the wrong direction.

Just now, jojodancer said:

The guy has a track record and gone to 2 Superbowls and performed in legendary fashion in both vs. the dynasty team of our Era. With a good defense in 2022-2023 he would have two trophies in his case. But still has one. And I see a couple more coming before it's over. We won with this guy and that goes a long way. Only 27 and still can improve on his game.

Even if someone doesn't want to believe that, the guys is completely unmovable contractually so he's going to be here for the next couple of years no matter what. So all this talk about trading/cutting/benching him is ridiculous. If we moved Hurts and took a ~65mm cap hit (trade, assuming he agreed to waive his NTC), we'd basically be flushing the next season plus. But we can not do it since the 2026 Eagles only have ~25mm in cap space -- we seriously can't trade or cut him this offseason. I guess you could trade him after June 1, and you'd save $11mm in 2026 ($20mm dead money but his cap hit is $31mm) but have a $45mm dead money hit in 2027. But waiting until after the draft to trade him would defeat the whole purpose.

Patullo can be fired, Sirianni can be fired. Hurts can't be moved.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Hurts isn't the one who calls the plays. The coaches don't have to listen. This is like blaming an 8 year old for being fat and not eating his vegetables -- the parents are the responsible one.

I get that the WIP crowd wants to blame Hurts for everything, but this is pathetic. There's zero evidence of Jalen not being willing to run plays that are called. Now, missing open receivers? Yeah, that's on him. The design of the offense isn't on him or the players, that's coaching.

How is it blaming Hurts for everything? Seems like you're generalizing whats been reported he's said to everything that's wrong with the offense. I'm sure there are people that do blame him for everything but I was strictly talking about the running and throws to the middle

Playcalling sucks. Although I honestly don't believe he doesn't have a strong say in it considering he's the franchise QB with a 255M contract. That's what teams do when they have a franchise QB. They listen and collaborate on what the player likes and wants to do

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

With the money Jeff invested in that offense and the reports that he loves dynamic passing offenses I'm shocked he signed off on that. On top of not scoring they are wearing out the defense. They have already played a few extra games worth of snaps vs last year and I think that's why they have looked bad twice on short weeks.

Being careful is wise, but I don't get the mentality of playing scared. Turnovers happen. They aren't ideal, but there is a balance, and they are way too far over the line in the wrong direction.

It really feels like they refuse to come to grips with the fact that we are a bad rushing offense. They keep thinking at some point it will click.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Everyone has their plate of blame to own. Hurts has input in what he does and does not want to do in the offense. The coaching isn't doing a good job marrying what they want to do with what the QB wants to do with what is the most successful for the team.

And at the end of the day it all falls at the feet of Nick. This is the 2nd year of a window he has blown because he is incompetent when it comes to running an offense and picking an OC. Howie made some big mistakes in FA but Vic has been able to mostly overcome them. The entire offense outside of RG returned and they are a dumpster fire. Yeah, the OL is banged up, but still. Imagine if they had to deal with all the holes Vic did on the other side.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Hurts isn't the one who calls the plays. The coaches don't have to listen. This is like blaming an 8 year old for being fat and not eating his vegetables -- the parents are the responsible one.

I get that the WIP crowd wants to blame Hurts for everything, but this is pathetic. There's zero evidence of Jalen not being willing to run plays that are called. Now, missing open receivers? Yeah, that's on him. The design of the offense isn't on him or the players, that's coaching.

It's actually the opposite, the WIP crowd never wants to blame Hurts. The WIP crowd has the idiotic extremes just in the other direction. WIP crowd is if Jalen Hurts has a game where he throws 5 pick 6's they'll call in and blame it on 15 mph winds not running the ball enough. There was a heated exchange on there this afternoon where a caller called in and said Hurts is having a great year and he and Giglio went at it. It was pretty funny.

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

How is it blaming Hurts for everything? Seems like you're generalizing whats been reported he's said to everything that's wrong with the offense. I'm sure there are people that do blame him for everything but I was strictly talking about the running and throws to the middle

Playcalling sucks. Although I honestly don't believe he doesn't have a strong say in it considering he's the franchise QB with a 255M contract. That's what teams do when they have a franchise QB. They listen and collaborate on what the player likes and wants to do

In my mind it's ridiculous to blame any player, even an elite franchise QB (which Jalen is not), for play design and play calling. Sure he can have his opinion, but if that opinion is detrimental to winning, then it's on the coaches to overrule the player. That's the job of being an authority figure. I can't blame some analyst at work for screwing up an investment when I'm the ultimate decision maker. If Jalen were changing plays in the huddle, or refusing to run certain times, then OK. But there's no evidence of that.

Jalen has plenty of limitations to criticize. Hanging the lack of QB runs on him, like it's his decision, is ridiculous.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Even if someone doesn't want to believe that, the guys is completely unmovable contractually so he's going to be here for the next couple of years no matter what. So all this talk about trading/cutting/benching him is ridiculous. If we moved Hurts and took a ~65mm cap hit (trade, assuming he agreed to waive his NTC), we'd basically be flushing the next season plus. But we can not do it since the 2026 Eagles only have ~25mm in cap space -- we seriously can't trade or cut him this offseason. I guess you could trade him after June 1, and you'd save $11mm in 2026 ($20mm dead money but his cap hit is $31mm) but have a $45mm dead money hit in 2027. But waiting until after the draft to trade him would defeat the whole purpose.

Patullo can be fired, Sirianni can be fired. Hurts can't be moved.

Agreed. As I stated before, like last year, they will take off the training wheels and this obsession of winning the turnover battle, come playoff time. I'm more concerned about the defense not getting laid out on the field by then. The secondary is scary right now, particularly CB2 & Safety2. Most fatal flaw on the team.

31 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

These guys are really solid at breaking down the film and the epic failures in game planning and play calling.

So embarrassing.

The worst part is that we have the personnel to beat man and Jalen actually excels at it (as opposed to zone) and they can’t even design a play that works.

40 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

It's not just a Nick or Patullo thing, it's an FO thing. That's exactly what they, for better or worse, brought in coaches with more 'emotional intelligence' to do, dictate less to players. They wanted head coaches that are less imposing and more willing to work with players. I think emotional intelligence is good, but too much of anything is bad. The extreme of emotional intelligence is lack of discipline, because you're too understanding and empathetic to dictate what needs to be done.

They need to stop babying players on offense and actually having real expectations from them in terms of performance and details. Nick used to be very anal about this, and that was the best thing about him. It kind of feels like when the switch to Kellen Moore happened, and when Philly started to get really stupid about Nick having a sometimes childish personality, it resulted in him being less assertive, and we're paying for it.

It's okay to have good emotional intelligence, but you have to be disciplined too. If you're not, it catches up with you.

I tend to agree, they were counter correcting from Chip and then wanted more in the mold of Reid. So they started with Doug, then went with the familiar, someone who worked under Reich who worked under Doug. Curious when the time comes if they would follow that pattern.

Just now, vikas83 said:

It really feels like they refuse to come to grips with the fact that we are a bad rushing offense. They keep thinking at some point it will click.

They are, but even with the OL injuries they should be able to improve things. For starters Toth should be the starting center. Cam is way too banged up to be playing right now. The next thing is how many of us with no NFL experience are sitting at home before a play and are able to predict this is going to be a run up the middle and that's what they run? I've heard it said that the OL should be able to block even when the defense knows what is coming, but that seems next level.

They also refuse to run Tank. Another dumb coaching decision. Work with him on protecting the ball in practice and put him in. Once again something that fans with no NFL experience are able to see but they can't.

When the passing offense is running high school level concepts it obviously makes it easier to stop and allows teams to focus on the run. Don't be so predictable there. Hurts may not like being under center, but that also drastically improved the offense until they threw that out the window when Cam came back.

There are some simple things everyone but Nick and Shane can see.

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

In my mind it's ridiculous to blame any player, even an elite franchise QB (which Jalen is not), for play design and play calling. Sure he can have his opinion, but if that opinion is detrimental to winning, then it's on the coaches to overrule the player. That's the job of being an authority figure. I can't blame some analyst at work for screwing up an investment when I'm the ultimate decision maker. If Jalen were changing plays in the huddle, or refusing to run certain times, then OK. But there's no evidence of that.

Jalen has plenty of limitations to criticize. Hanging the lack of QB runs on him, like it's his decision, is ridiculous.

Well if he doesn't feel comfortable throwing to the middle then that's his prerogative. They gave him the offense. Although it seems ludicrous considering the stats show he's pretty good at the middle throws

Regarding the runs.. do you just not believe he's told them he doesn't want to run? Or do you believe he shouldn't get criticism for not wanting to run anymore?

3 hours ago, UK Eagle said:

As a contrarian thought. Purely hypothetically, if the Franchise QB doesn't want to make or cannot make certain throws (say, throwing over the middle) the OC and OL Coach are left with less bandwidth and creativity to make the O successful if the QB just will not do it. That O would look very vanilla. A Franchise QB on a SB winning team definitely has a lot more power internally to get what he wants, so it would be very hard for any coach (especially a year 1 Coordinator) to not listen and implement what they want.ed Especially if the Owner is known to want to listen players and will take action on it. Its a hard position from a proce4ss and political perspective.

Its not to blame any single person in that hypothetical scenario, but it is possible to look at a new OC and wonder, how much of what he wants to do in terms of playcalls etc is not done because the QB won't or can't to do it? If it takes 5 seconds for the QB to make a throw in the middle, that's not good for any scheme,. An experienced OC could well feel enabled to say no to the QB, but that comes with risk.

All hypothetical of course

First, Hurts has said he likes playing under center there was video of him coming out of the draft saying that. He's run, thrown to the middle and all the things people say he won't do. Plus other QBs like McNabb as they got older preferred to not run as much.

Second, the coaches are supposed to be in charge. All these narratives that Hurts doesn't want to do this, refuses to do that, what does that say about the coaches and front office? What these ideas are really saying is that the front office and coaches do whatever Jalen Hurts wants. Think about that. Lurie has had no problem firing Andy Reid the winningest coach in history, firing Doug who brought their first Super Bowl. Howie traded McNabb and Wentz away when it was time to move on.

You mean to tell me that this front office who fired Reid and Doug, traded McNabb and Wentz are scared to coach Jalen Hurts? That he has that much power to dictate whatever he wants???

Think about that. That's absurd.

38 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This is so exhausting.

Hurts doesn't want to throw over the middle! Except he has done it before and done it very well.

Hurts doesn't want to run under center play action! Except we did it earlier this year very successfully.

Hurts refuses to run anymore! Except he does, and he's not the one that calls the plays.

There is really no reason to think Hurts would refuse to run the plays called by the coaches, and he has done all these things people claim he can't do. He's far from a perfect QB, but it really is getting ridiculous.

I did say Hurts threw it over the middle, and well I want a lot more of it. But you can watch this O operate and wonder why the middle of the field is a relatively barren landscape for large portions of a game - the fact the crowd cheered loudly when AJ caught a ball across the middle on Friday suggests a lot of people noticed it too. Why are hitches so consistently present, with different OCs, calling different styles over the past few years? Is that all down to Sirianni's system? Why call a play with a crossing route/rub route if the hypothetical QB won't go there and would rather take off and run? Or needs a longer window to make the throw, meaning they get sacked more?

BTW. I understand and support why Hurts may not want to run as much anymore, and I have no problem with him, and the coaches being more selective about it. I wanted him to run less last season as the lad doesn't get the Mahomey level of Zebra protection. But its an asset that still need to use, because teams hate defending it.

11 minutes ago, DaBirds said:

So embarrassing.

The worst part is that we have the personnel to beat man and Jalen actually excels at it (as opposed to zone) and they can’t even design a play that works.

Not good - I assume, as usual, there was little time on the play clock to audible to a better call versus man (I'm pretty sure Jalen can do this within the offense, but not sure how big the portfolio is).

15 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

Agreed. As I stated before, like last year, they will take off the training wheels and this obsession of winning the turnover battle, come playoff time. I'm more concerned about the defense not getting laid out on the field by then. The secondary is scary right now, particularly CB2 & Safety2. Most fatal flaw on the team.

Another thing that pisses me off IF the rumors are true is that Jalen doesn't want to run and Jalen doesn't like to be under center. Their job isn't to make sure he's happy it's to get the offense moving. I get making sure the QB is comfortable as much as possible, but when things stop working it's time to say this is what we are doing. I don't blame Hurts for that. He can ask for what he wants their job is to do what is best for the team.

We agree on your last point. I've said it multiple times a week for a few months. That defense is going to be worn down to dust.

2 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

I did say Hurts threw it over the middle, and well I want a lot more of it. But you can watch this O operate and wonder why the middle of the field is a relatively barren landscape for large portions of a game - the fact the crowd cheered loudly when AJ caught a ball across the middle on Friday suggests a lot of people noticed it too. Why are hitches so consistently present, with different OCs, calling different styles over the past few years? Is that all down to Sirianni's system?

I think yes. It is mostly Siri. Remember how rudimentary the offense looked in 2021 before he relinquished the offense to others? The media was just outright laughing about it. Nick has a philosophy and I’m not exactly sure what it is, but he has one.

Corporate greed always wins

Just now, UK Eagle said:

I did say Hurts threw it over the middle, and well I want a lot more of it. But you can watch this O operate and wonder why the middle of the field is a relatively barren landscape for large portions of a game - the fact the crowd cheered loudly when AJ caught a ball across the middle on Friday suggests a lot of people noticed it too. Why are hitches so consistently present, with different OCs, calling different styles over the past few years? Is that all down to Sirianni's system? Why call a play with a crossing route/rub route if the hypothetical QB won't go there and would rather take off and run? Or needs a longer window to make the throw, meaning they get sacked more?

BTW. I understand and support why Hurts may not want to run as much anymore, and I have no problem with him, and the coaches being more selective about it. I wanted him to run less last season as the lad doesn't get the Mahomey level of Zebra protection. But its an asset that still need to use, because teams hate defending it.

Your answer is that Nick Sirianni has been OBSESSED with playing conservative ever since the 2023 season with so many high turnovers. He's said repeatedly how much he prioritizes the turnover ratio. People have pointed out all the routes the receivers run. In many situations the last 2 years Hurts was taking sacks instead of throwing it away, it was pretty obvious he was being coached to not turn the ball over. When they started passing more he said they finally "took the straight jacket off." That means the coaches were dictating that, not the QB. Hurts has criticized the offense saying they should not play to not lose, when asked about the offense this year a lot of his answers are "ask KP." AJ Brown says the same thing, and at one locker room interview defended Jalen and said he's making the throws that are called to make, he also said ask KP on some questions.

When the team gets behind and needs to pass: they do. They run slants, throw to the middle, throw deep passes. Nick loosens up when they need to, as he did in the playoffs last year. Hurts has had some games with 300+ yards. It's not that Hurts can't or won't, or they don't "trust" him. Nick likes to play conservative. That is seen in other situations of play calling and game decisions where he plays it safe. When needed, he then gets aggressive and throws or goes for it on 4th down.

Hurts has his problems and weaknesses. Hurts - like many players - may even express preferences of what he likes and doesn't like to do. But the coaches are in charge. The OC calls the plays. The HC and OC along with Stoutland the run game coordinator work all week on the game plan. Why aren't they giving Tank Bigsby any carries? Why are they running Barkley straight up the middle when the interior line is banged up and a walking wounded instead of running to the outside? Because Jalen Hurts wants that?

No, it's coaching.