Can't edit that but a QB change is so far from my mind lol

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

The reality is Tanner is netting us a high draft pick this offseason, and Sam Howell steps in as Number 2. That's a tough trade to make honestly, even for a 2nd rounder. But it's now or never this offseason to get something for him. If Eagles tank this offseason is gonna be very interesting. Can see: AJ Brown traded, McKee traded. Perhaps even Davis traded. Dean, Blankenship, Goedert all gone. Lane Johnson retiring. Lot of question marks going into next season. I hope this window isn't suddenly shut. It really shouldn't be. 

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

QB contracts are always high. That doesn't mean they have power over coaching and front office. QBs with more contract value than Hurts: do these guys have a lot of power over their coaches and front office?

Trevor Lawrence - $275m
Brock Purdy - $265m

Justin Herbert - $262m

Lamar Jackson - $260m

Others just below Hurts: do these guys have power over coaches and front office?

Kyler Murray - $230m

Deshaun Waton - $230m

Jordan Love - $220m

Regarding missing steps, my point is the same people in charge have proven to make major changes, and I don't buy that they are allowing a QB to dictate what the coaches will call and they do not coach him, hold him accountable, do not insist on running certain plays because he has the power over them. Plus, this season Hurts has taken snaps under center and recently thrown over the middle. So he does it, but refuses to do it, but the coaches don't call it? It doesn't add up.

How would anyone know how much power or influence those guys have?

Lawrence, who knows? That organization is a dumpster anyway constantly cycling in new HC's and FO's.

Purdy - I'd say no. That's more of a testament to Kyle Shannahan who runs his specific offense. I would still think he gives input in what he likes/doesn't but ultimately it's Shanahan.

Herbert - who knows? Same category as Lawrence.

Lamar Jackson - yea, probably. I don't have anything concrete but dudes a multiple MVP, with a HC who doesn't have his own system. You think he's not going to have a say in what the offense is?

Kyler Murray - not anymore with injuries and poor play. Before, maybe, who knows?

Deshaun Watson - absolutely did. He basically held that organization hostage so he would accept a trade there.

Love- who knows?

Hurts being able to throw over the middle or play under center well doesn't mean he doesn't like to do it. They aren't mutually exclusive. The under center stuff is pointing directly at Toth anyway.

The same people in charge have proven to make major changes AFTER there were problems. That's the point about missing steps. If the problems continue, they will make major changes. We are in the infancy stage of problems.

Hurts isn't calling the plays and telling the coaches what they must do. But it's not a stretch to think Hurts is telling him what he likes and doesn't like, and the coaches are trying to work around that. On top of that, Sirainni is trying to run this ultra-conservative offense that doesn't turn the ball over which is bogging down the offense more. We've seen Hurts call audibles at the line. We've seen him change the play at the line. Smith just said "that play was what #1 and #11 wanted to do".

3 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

The reality is Tanner is netting us a high draft pick this offseason, and Sam Howell steps in as Number 2. That's a tough trade to make honestly, even for a 2nd rounder. But it's now or never this offseason to get something for him. If Eagles tank this offseason is gonna be very interesting. Can see: AJ Brown traded, McKee traded. Perhaps even Davis traded. Dean, Blankenship, Goedert all gone. Lane Johnson retiring. Lot of question marks going into next season. I hope this window isn't suddenly shut. It really shouldn't be. 

Maybe him playing with this trash OC would only decrease his value

18 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I think the coaches have a responsibility to overrule the wishes of a player if it doesn't help them win. Hurts may not want to run as much because he's gotten hurt doing so. But we've now seen 12 games where it isn't working -- at some point the adults need to be the adults and call the QB designed runs. Work with Hurts to protect himself (which he has been doing this year), but you can't let a single player, even the QB, dictate an offense that doesn't work.

The problem is the HC and QB both installed the mantra of "a wins a win" and that it doesn't matter how you win, as long as you win. And even though this year isn't pretty, they have won.

So let me follow the logic here. The same fans that think Jalen Hurts has so much power that the coaches won't call plays under center, throws to the middle or QB designed runs because Jalen Hurts refuses to do them (except when they do in fact run those plays)...

...think the same coaches are going to bench that QB for a 6th round pick who has only started 1 NFL game due to resting starters in week 17?

To be clear, I've said they should bench Hurts for McKee as well: last week vs the Bears, last year in the Cowboys game when Hurts was terrible. McNabb was benched then came back to take them to the NFCCG. Sometimes a player needs to sit and refocus. Sometimes you need a spark and see what the backup can do. But I don't believe Hurts has so much power over the coaches that they won't call plays that are successful and lose games because of what Hurts wants.

If you think that, then there's no way they would ever bench him for McKee.

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

How would anyone know how much power or influence those guys have?

Lawrence, who knows? That organization is a dumpster anyway constantly cycling in new HC's and FO's.

Purdy - I'd say no. That's more of a testament to Kyle Shannahan who runs his specific offense. I would still think he gives input in what he likes/doesn't but ultimately it's Shanahan.

Herbert - who knows? Same category as Lawrence.

Lamar Jackson - yea, probably. I don't have anything concrete but dudes a multiple MVP, with a HC who doesn't have his own system. You think he's not going to have a say in what the offense is?

Kyler Murray - not anymore with injuries and poor play. Before, maybe, who knows?

Deshaun Watson - absolutely did. He basically held that organization hostage so he would accept a trade there.

Love- who knows?

Hurts being able to throw over the middle or play under center well doesn't mean he doesn't like to do it. They aren't mutually exclusive. The under center stuff is pointing directly at Toth anyway.

The same people in charge have proven to make major changes AFTER there were problems. That's the point about missing steps. If the problems continue, they will make major changes. We are in the infancy stage of problems.

Hurts isn't calling the plays and telling the coaches what they must do. But it's not a stretch to think Hurts is telling him what he likes and doesn't like, and the coaches are trying to work around that. On top of that, Sirainni is trying to run this ultra-conservative offense that doesn't turn the ball over which is bogging down the offense more. We've seen Hurts call audibles at the line. We've seen him change the play at the line. Smith just said "that play was what #1 and #11 wanted to do".

So...coaching. Yeah.

QBs can call audibles. Yes.

QBs have things they like and don't like and coaches can take that into consideration. Yeah.

None of that means Hurts has a choke hold of power over the coaches. That is the narrative, that Hurts "refuses" to do things and that's why the offense looks the way it does. If that's what people believe, then these are some weak ass coaches who have no control over their team.

14 minutes ago, NOTW said:

And what did they do with Wentz?

QBs - or any player - having preferences and expressing that is one thing, or having influence because they respect the player. And coaches should design plays to the strengths of their players, and collaborate to talk with their players about what's working and not.

But "power" means they are in charge and tell the coaches what to do, not influence or having a say to contribute. If Nick Sirianni, CEO and Kevin Patullo OC cannot and will not run things because of Jalen Hurts, and Howie Roseman GM and Lurie allow it, then that's bigger problems in the organization.

And that is my point. The Wentz way didn't work, so they moved on. But they tried to do it the Wentz way, because that's what he wanted.

If this season is a collapse, then you will start to see the shift. Roseman and Lurie aren't going to sit idly by. But they are at the moment because they just won the SB, went to the SB two years ago, and even now are 8-4 and not that far behind the #1 seed. Both Lurie and Roseman got so much flack for meddling in the past, but now we want them to meddle more even though the last few years have been successful?

16 minutes ago, NOTW said:

AJ Brown has committed the most penalties on offense, most of them false starts.

Speaking of which, I'm surprised this isn't talked about more. The last two weeks his false starts aren't even your typical false starts. He's just standing in place and moving. I have no idea wtf he's doing. Just line up and stand still.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

And that is my point. The Wentz way didn't work, so they moved on. But they tried to do it the Wentz way, because that's what he wanted.

If this season is a collapse, then you will start to see the shift. Roseman and Lurie aren't going to sit idly by. But they are at the moment because they just won the SB, went to the SB two years ago, and even now are 8-4 and not that far behind the #1 seed. Both Lurie and Roseman got so much flack for meddling in the past, but now we want them to meddle more even though the last few years have been successful?

I do agree that Howie and Lurie are likely to act after the season. My point is the coaches during the season each week are responsible to do what's needed, and Hurts pass style is just one thing the coaches haven't changed. There's a list of other things we've all talked about which have nothing to do with Hurts.

Also this isn't just a 2025 narrative about Hurts. Some people believe that for years Hurts hasn't wanted to do certain things so the coaches don't do it.

I just don't buy that Hurts has so much power that even when losing games - something Hurts is obsessed about - the coaches are sitting there avoiding things that work simply because Hurts tells them he refused to do them. It's an extreme leap.

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Speaking of which, I'm surprised this isn't talked about more. The last two weeks his false starts aren't even your typical false starts. He's just standing in place and moving. I have no idea wtf he's doing. Just line up and stand still.

I've defended him plenty, and don't care about his social media posts. But he's complained and then he's contributing to their problems with these false starts. That's a very simple mental focus that can be corrected. Same with their penalties on the tush push, 12 men on the field, not getting the play calls in on time. These are the "detailed" and "standard" things they always talk about.

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

And that is my point. The Wentz way didn't work, so they moved on. But they tried to do it the Wentz way, because that's what he wanted.

If this season is a collapse, then you will start to see the shift. Roseman and Lurie aren't going to sit idly by. But they are at the moment because they just won the SB, went to the SB two years ago, and even now are 8-4 and not that far behind the #1 seed. Both Lurie and Roseman got so much flack for meddling in the past, but now we want them to meddle more even though the last few years have been successful?

The true collapse of Wentz wasn't until 2020 -- in 2019 he dragged a terrible group of weapons to the playoffs. Some combination of the concussion and the team drafting Hurts made Wentz not just regress but completely collapse. His QB rating went from 93.1 in 2019 (101.9 in 2017 and 102.2 in 2018) to 72.8 in 2020. He was 16TDs and 15 INTs in 2020 after being 27/7, 21/7 and 33/7 the 3 years prior.

It wasn't not wanting to run the "Foles stuff." It was completely forgetting how to play QB.

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

So let me follow the logic here. The same fans that think Jalen Hurts has so much power that the coaches won't call plays under center, throws to the middle or QB designed runs because Jalen Hurts refuses to do them (except when they do in fact run those plays)...

...think the same coaches are going to bench that QB for a 6th round pick who has only started 1 NFL game due to resting starters in week 17?

To be clear, I've said they should bench Hurts for McKee as well: last week vs the Bears, last year in the Cowboys game when Hurts was terrible. McNabb was benched then came back to take them to the NFCCG. Sometimes a player needs to sit and refocus. Sometimes you need a spark and see what the backup can do. But I don't believe Hurts has so much power over the coaches that they won't call plays that are successful and lose games because of what Hurts wants.

If you think that, then there's no way they would ever bench him for McKee.

Do you bench Mahomes, Jackson, Allen or any of those types for essentially a rookie? Easy answer. And it's not happening here. This is silly talk. This city and backup QBs is hilarious. Kevin Kolb was awesome as well. Hurts has had an uneven year and so has everyone else. Rookie OC IS CLUELESS. OL looks awful, AJ is not prime AJ. Barkley cashed his phat check and is in mega commercials everywhere and looks like a timid Mike Tyson out there who lost his mojo. Lot of peeps not playing well on offense. Devante and Goedert look as good as ever though.

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

So...coaching. Yeah.

QBs can call audibles. Yes.

QBs have things they like and don't like and coaches can take that into consideration. Yeah.

None of that means Hurts has a choke hold of power over the coaches. That is the narrative, that Hurts "refuses" to do things and that's why the offense looks the way it does. If that's what people believe, then these are some weak ass coaches who have no control over their team.

I haven't seen anyone here suggest Hurts has a choke hold or refuses to do things, but I also haven't been reading every post. What I have seen is the report Hurts does not want to run as much.

When you are a CEO coach without a real system and you are calling plays around a limited QB, it's a delicate balancing act.

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The true collapse of Wentz wasn't until 2020 -- in 2019 he dragged a terrible group of weapons to the playoffs. Some combination of the concussion and the team drafting Hurts made Wentz not just regress but completely collapse. His QB rating went from 93.1 in 2019 (101.9 in 2017 and 102.2 in 2018) to 72.8 in 2020. He was 16TDs and 15 INTs in 2020 after being 27/7, 21/7 and 33/7 the 3 years prior.

It wasn't not wanting to run the "Foles stuff." It was completely forgetting how to play QB.

It was just an example of a QB wanting the offense to be run the way they liked or wanted. Not necessarily the reason everything went to ish.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It was just an example of a QB wanting the offense to be run the way they liked or wanted. Not necessarily the reason everything went to ish.

IIRC, there were reports that Wentz refused to run plays as called or go through progressions (Sproles comments) as he just fed Ertz. At least as of now, we don't have reports of Jalen refusing to run plays as called. Maybe that comes out some day, but seems unlikely given Hurts' personality (son of a coach).

1 hour ago, jojodancer said:

The good news is many of these guys on defense won't have played a full season of snaps with the injuries and revolving door factor at CB. They rotate at edge. Dean didn't start the season. I'm concerned about getting worn out at DT. Think they need to start to rotate there more now as Carter, Davis and Ojomo are worn out. We are missing Milton there. LOL

And at LB too there is no reason not to give some snaps to Jihad. They looked tired and out of position often. Also they were running around blocks as well putting them out of position.

More rotation needed, even if just to give the starters some air.

I have to admit, I'm a little tired of hearing "Hurts isn't comfortable doing X or Y." That's not a valid reason. For one, the best way to get comfortable with something is to do it. That's a part of growth. Two, it's not like the current offensive structure is working. If they diversify and it fails, what difference does it make? They have nothing to lose at this point.

Also, if Hurts truly is a QB who can only run one system and sucks at anything else, then it would be good for the Eagles to know so they can move on ASAP. You won a SB with him, then cash out. Because you can't sustain success if you are only able to win with one specific style of play. Because if you struggle to run that style of the league excels at defending it, then you're screwed.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

IIRC, there were reports that Wentz refused to run plays as called or go through progressions (Sproles comments) as he just fed Ertz. At least as of now, we don't have reports of Jalen refusing to run plays as called. Maybe that comes out some day, but seems unlikely given Hurts' personality (son of a coach).

I was thinking that same thing this week. Hurts being a son of a coach and having a team-first mentality. He has always talked about winning being more important than individual stats and performance and doing what is needed to win. He HATES losing. They've lost 2 games in a row now and I have a very hard time believing he isn't willing to do something necessary to help the team win like more QB designed runs, throw to the middle or whatever. That doesn't add up with everything else we know of him.

2 hours ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

but even average minds can do fine when matched with players that fit their philosophy. The situation with Sirianni and Hurts is the exact opposite of that.

I don't know where I read it but the jist of it is that Sirianni/Patullo's offense would be better with a suitable quarterback. Hurts isn't really it. Hurts would look/play much better with a HC/OC more aligned with his strengths. But we got what we got.

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I have to admit, I'm a little tired of hearing "Hurts isn't comfortable doing X or Y." That's not a valid reason. For one, the best way to get comfortable with something is to do it. That's a part of growth. Two, it's not like the current offensive structure is working. If they diversify and it fails, what difference does it make? They have nothing to lose at this point.

Also, if Hurts truly is a QB who can only run one system and sucks at anything else, then it would be good for the Eagles to know so they can move on ASAP. You won a SB with him, then cash out. Because you can't sustain success if you are only able to win with one specific style of play. Because if you struggle to run that style of the league excels at defending it, then you're screwed.

Do you remember the Superbowl? Hurts won without much of a running game. So he can definitely win another way. On the biggest stage as well. Dickerson & Jurgens demise started on that day as well. Still shut out the Superbowl Champions for about 3 quarters with a very good offense. The OC should be able to concoct a good offense based on defenses that sell out to stop the running game. And that is not happening. Sure happened in the Superbowl. It's the ultimate team sport and they are not clicking right now for a plethora of reasons. They show flashes...

The silver lining is when we play like crap I feel totally justified in not even bothering to watch prime time games

2 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

Do you remember the Superbowl? Hurts won without much of a running game. So he can definitely win another way. On the biggest stage as well. Dickerson & Jurgens demise started on that day as well. Still shut out the Superbowl Champions for about 3 quarters with a very good offense. The OC should be able to concoct a good offense based on defenses that sell out to stop the running game. And that is not happening. Sure happened in the Superbowl. It's the ultimate team sport and they are not clicking right now for a plethora of reasons. They show flashes...

Tell that to the coaches. There's only two reasons the offense is so vanilla. Either they think Hurts can't run a more diverse offense or they're stupid. But either way they're stupid because they need to give him an opportunity to do it. The offense is bottom 5 in the league. How much worse can it get if they try new stuff and Hurts sucks at it.

2 hours ago, vikas83 said:

This is so exhausting.

Hurts doesn't want to throw over the middle! Except he has done it before and done it very well.

Hurts doesn't want to run under center play action! Except we did it earlier this year very successfully.

Hurts refuses to run anymore! Except he does, and he's not the one that calls the plays.

There is really no reason to think Hurts would refuse to run the plays called by the coaches, and he has done all these things people claim he can't do. He's far from a perfect QB, but it really is getting ridiculous.

Excuse me... I am the one who makes the best posts about Jalen Hurts here. And you are doing it wrong. Leave it to me.

49 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Hell yeah! Louder! More!!!