1 hour ago, Procus said:

Yah - let those Dems cheat - it's fascist not to!!

We all know he's always been a cheater, on his wives, on his taxes, on his business dealings, and now you even admit he cheats in elections. You're finally coming around, Barbaro.

Trump votes by mail again in his home state of Florida

Voting records from Palm Beach County show the president requested his ballot in late July and it was returned on Aug. 13.

3 hours ago, Procus said:

Yah - let those Dems cheat - it's fascist not to!!

Yes, voting by mail which this country has done for the last 160 years = "democrats cheating". It seems to me that a great number of republicans have won elections with mail in voting in the last 160 years, including the current commander in thief, along with republican majorities in the senate and the house. If democrats have been cheating over the last 160 years, they haven't been doing a very good job at it. Very well thought out argument as always. Thank you for your contributions to this forum.

Yeah look at the details. This was just a procedural ruling.

4 hours ago, Procus said:

Yah - let those Dems cheat - it's fascist not to!!

19 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Yes, voting by mail which this country has done for the last 160 years = "democrats cheating". It seems to me that a great number of republicans have won elections with mail in voting in the last 160 years, including the current commander in thief, along with republican majorities in the senate and the house. If democrats have been cheating over the last 160 years, they haven't been doing a very good job at it. Very well thought out argument as always. Thank you for your contributions to this forum.

trump uses mail in ballots

How his cult seems to think it's cheating while ignoring that their leader does it repeatedly is... something

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

trump uses mail in ballots

How his cult seems to think it's cheating while ignoring that their leader does it repeatedly is... something

Big difference in the two systems employed Mike.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/51d44754c80642a3bd5f3f06ec01d65d

Florida uses a request-based (no-excuse) vote-by-mail system with tighter identity checks at the request stage, a strict Election Day receipt deadline, shorter cure windows, and limits on third-party ballot handling. California uses universal/automatic mail ballots for all active registered voters, with more lenient return timing, longer cure periods, and fewer restrictions on who can return ballots. ### How Ballots Are Issued - Florida: Voters (or limited designees such as immediate family or a legal guardian) must request a ballot. Requests require the voter’s name, date of birth, address, and a Florida driver’s license/ID number or the last four digits of the Social Security number (verified against records). Written requests need a signature. A request is valid only through the end of the calendar year of the next regularly scheduled general election (roughly a two-year cycle); it must be renewed afterward. Ballots are not automatically mailed. Deadline to request a mailed ballot is generally 5 p.m. on the 12th day before the election. - California: All active registered voters automatically receive a mail ballot for every election (universal vote-by-mail). No application or extra ID number is required to receive one. Voters can request a ballot be sent to a temporary address if needed. ### Return Deadlines and Methods - Florida: The ballot must be received by the supervisor of elections by 7 p.m. local time on Election Day (postmarks do not count for domestic ballots; limited extensions apply for overseas voters). Return options include U.S. mail, private carriers, in-person delivery to elections offices, early-voting sites, or official secure ballot intake stations (drop boxes). Drop boxes are required at supervisor offices, branch offices, and early-voting sites; they must be monitored and have restricted hours/locations. - California: Ballots must be postmarked (or equivalently dated/stamped) by Election Day and received within 7 days after. In-person drop-off at drop boxes, vote centers, or elections offices is allowed until polls close (8 p.m.). Drop boxes are more widely required (at least a certain number based on registered voters). ### Verification and Identity Safeguards Both states primarily rely on signature comparison (voter’s signature on the return envelope vs. the signature(s) on file in registration records). Neither requires a witness or notary for the return envelope in ordinary cases. - Florida: Stronger front-end check—ID number required to request the ballot. Signature match is required for counting. If the signature is missing or does not match, the voter is notified and can cure with a signed affidavit plus a copy of acceptable photo ID (or alternative documentation in some cases). The cure deadline is short (generally until 5 p.m. two days after Election Day). Special ID rules can apply to certain first-time voters who registered by mail. - California: No ID number needed to receive the ballot. Signature comparison uses a relatively strict standard in practice (multiple reviewers in some counties). Voters receive notice (mail plus phone/text/email if available) and a longer window to cure missing or mismatched signatures via a verification statement (returnable by mail, email, fax, drop box, etc.). Cure deadlines typically run well after Election Day (around 22 days for regularly scheduled statewide elections, with related certification timelines). First-time federal voters who did not provide ID at registration may need to supply it. ### Third-Party Handling / "Ballot Collection” Limits - Florida: Strict limits. A person may generally possess/return only their own ballot plus up to two others, or unlimited immediate-family ballots. Exceeding this is a felony. This restricts organized collection. - California: More permissive. Anyone may return a ballot for a voter (as long as they are not paid per ballot). The voter authorizes the person on the envelope; the designated returner must return it promptly (generally within 3 days or by Election Day close, whichever is earlier). ### Other Practical Differences Florida’s stricter receipt deadline and shorter cure window, combined with pre-processing of early-returned ballots, typically produce faster results reporting. California’s automatic mailing of ballots to all voters, postmark + multi-day receipt window, and longer cure period contribute to higher mail volume and slower final counts. Both systems include ballot tracking, chain-of-custody procedures, and bipartisan or multipartisan processing in many jurisdictions. Rules can have limited exceptions (military/overseas voters, emergencies, disabilities). Always check the current official guidance from the Florida Division of Elections or California Secretary of State / county elections offices, as statutes and administrative details can be updated.

12 minutes ago, Procus said:

Big difference in the two systems employed Mike

So you mean mail in ballots are ok then?

14 minutes ago, Procus said:

Big difference in the two systems employed Mike.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/51d44754c80642a3bd5f3f06ec01d65d

Florida uses a request-based (no-excuse) vote-by-mail system with tighter identity checks at the request stage, a strict Election Day receipt deadline, shorter cure windows, and limits on third-party ballot handling. California uses universal/automatic mail ballots for all active registered voters, with more lenient return timing, longer cure periods, and fewer restrictions on who can return ballots. ### How Ballots Are Issued - Florida: Voters (or limited designees such as immediate family or a legal guardian) must request a ballot. Requests require the voter’s name, date of birth, address, and a Florida driver’s license/ID number or the last four digits of the Social Security number (verified against records). Written requests need a signature. A request is valid only through the end of the calendar year of the next regularly scheduled general election (roughly a two-year cycle); it must be renewed afterward. Ballots are not automatically mailed. Deadline to request a mailed ballot is generally 5 p.m. on the 12th day before the election. - California: All active registered voters automatically receive a mail ballot for every election (universal vote-by-mail). No application or extra ID number is required to receive one. Voters can request a ballot be sent to a temporary address if needed. ### Return Deadlines and Methods - Florida: The ballot must be received by the supervisor of elections by 7 p.m. local time on Election Day (postmarks do not count for domestic ballots; limited extensions apply for overseas voters). Return options include U.S. mail, private carriers, in-person delivery to elections offices, early-voting sites, or official secure ballot intake stations (drop boxes). Drop boxes are required at supervisor offices, branch offices, and early-voting sites; they must be monitored and have restricted hours/locations. - California: Ballots must be postmarked (or equivalently dated/stamped) by Election Day and received within 7 days after. In-person drop-off at drop boxes, vote centers, or elections offices is allowed until polls close (8 p.m.). Drop boxes are more widely required (at least a certain number based on registered voters). ### Verification and Identity Safeguards Both states primarily rely on signature comparison (voter’s signature on the return envelope vs. the signature(s) on file in registration records). Neither requires a witness or notary for the return envelope in ordinary cases. - Florida: Stronger front-end check—ID number required to request the ballot. Signature match is required for counting. If the signature is missing or does not match, the voter is notified and can cure with a signed affidavit plus a copy of acceptable photo ID (or alternative documentation in some cases). The cure deadline is short (generally until 5 p.m. two days after Election Day). Special ID rules can apply to certain first-time voters who registered by mail. - California: No ID number needed to receive the ballot. Signature comparison uses a relatively strict standard in practice (multiple reviewers in some counties). Voters receive notice (mail plus phone/text/email if available) and a longer window to cure missing or mismatched signatures via a verification statement (returnable by mail, email, fax, drop box, etc.). Cure deadlines typically run well after Election Day (around 22 days for regularly scheduled statewide elections, with related certification timelines). First-time federal voters who did not provide ID at registration may need to supply it. ### Third-Party Handling / "Ballot Collection” Limits - Florida: Strict limits. A person may generally possess/return only their own ballot plus up to two others, or unlimited immediate-family ballots. Exceeding this is a felony. This restricts organized collection. - California: More permissive. Anyone may return a ballot for a voter (as long as they are not paid per ballot). The voter authorizes the person on the envelope; the designated returner must return it promptly (generally within 3 days or by Election Day close, whichever is earlier). ### Other Practical Differences Florida’s stricter receipt deadline and shorter cure window, combined with pre-processing of early-returned ballots, typically produce faster results reporting. California’s automatic mailing of ballots to all voters, postmark + multi-day receipt window, and longer cure period contribute to higher mail volume and slower final counts. Both systems include ballot tracking, chain-of-custody procedures, and bipartisan or multipartisan processing in many jurisdictions. Rules can have limited exceptions (military/overseas voters, emergencies, disabilities). Always check the current official guidance from the Florida Division of Elections or California Secretary of State / county elections offices, as statutes and administrative details can be updated.

Cali has safeguards as well

So essentially the current ruling does nothing in and of itself. It doesn't change anything. However, it does point in a direction that favors what Trump wants and there are other cases that are moving thru the system which would have real impact depending on the way they rule. Those are expected to move quickly so we could see SCOTUS make a ruling with actual teeth over the next week or two.

34 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

So essentially the current ruling does nothing in and of itself. It doesn't change anything. However, it does point in a direction that favors what Trump wants and there are other cases that are moving thru the system which would have real impact depending on the way they rule. Those are expected to move quickly so we could see SCOTUS make a ruling with actual teeth over the next week or two.

I wouldn't say that it points in a direction that favors Trump. The ruling was purely based on the procedural aspect of the injunction. Very similar thing happened early in Trump's term regarding a immigration/deportation case. I forget which case it was, but the SC initially gave the Trump admin a "win" purely based on the procedural aspect of the case, and even stated so directly in the case that their ruling had nothing to do with the legality issue at hand, and of course all the MAGAs were doing handstands because they can't read. And then when it came to actually rule on the legality of the issue at hand, the Trump admin lost.

This one's gotta hurt. Without political weight he's just a 100 year old pedophile who sleeps through press conference.

2 hours ago, Procus said:

Big difference in the two systems employed Mike.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/51d44754c80642a3bd5f3f06ec01d65d

Florida uses a request-based (no-excuse) vote-by-mail system with tighter identity checks at the request stage, a strict Election Day receipt deadline, shorter cure windows, and limits on third-party ballot handling. California uses universal/automatic mail ballots for all active registered voters, with more lenient return timing, longer cure periods, and fewer restrictions on who can return ballots. ### How Ballots Are Issued - Florida: Voters (or limited designees such as immediate family or a legal guardian) must request a ballot. Requests require the voter’s name, date of birth, address, and a Florida driver’s license/ID number or the last four digits of the Social Security number (verified against records). Written requests need a signature. A request is valid only through the end of the calendar year of the next regularly scheduled general election (roughly a two-year cycle); it must be renewed afterward. Ballots are not automatically mailed. Deadline to request a mailed ballot is generally 5 p.m. on the 12th day before the election. - California: All active registered voters automatically receive a mail ballot for every election (universal vote-by-mail). No application or extra ID number is required to receive one. Voters can request a ballot be sent to a temporary address if needed. ### Return Deadlines and Methods - Florida: The ballot must be received by the supervisor of elections by 7 p.m. local time on Election Day (postmarks do not count for domestic ballots; limited extensions apply for overseas voters). Return options include U.S. mail, private carriers, in-person delivery to elections offices, early-voting sites, or official secure ballot intake stations (drop boxes). Drop boxes are required at supervisor offices, branch offices, and early-voting sites; they must be monitored and have restricted hours/locations. - California: Ballots must be postmarked (or equivalently dated/stamped) by Election Day and received within 7 days after. In-person drop-off at drop boxes, vote centers, or elections offices is allowed until polls close (8 p.m.). Drop boxes are more widely required (at least a certain number based on registered voters). ### Verification and Identity Safeguards Both states primarily rely on signature comparison (voter’s signature on the return envelope vs. the signature(s) on file in registration records). Neither requires a witness or notary for the return envelope in ordinary cases. - Florida: Stronger front-end check—ID number required to request the ballot. Signature match is required for counting. If the signature is missing or does not match, the voter is notified and can cure with a signed affidavit plus a copy of acceptable photo ID (or alternative documentation in some cases). The cure deadline is short (generally until 5 p.m. two days after Election Day). Special ID rules can apply to certain first-time voters who registered by mail. - California: No ID number needed to receive the ballot. Signature comparison uses a relatively strict standard in practice (multiple reviewers in some counties). Voters receive notice (mail plus phone/text/email if available) and a longer window to cure missing or mismatched signatures via a verification statement (returnable by mail, email, fax, drop box, etc.). Cure deadlines typically run well after Election Day (around 22 days for regularly scheduled statewide elections, with related certification timelines). First-time federal voters who did not provide ID at registration may need to supply it. ### Third-Party Handling / "Ballot Collection” Limits - Florida: Strict limits. A person may generally possess/return only their own ballot plus up to two others, or unlimited immediate-family ballots. Exceeding this is a felony. This restricts organized collection. - California: More permissive. Anyone may return a ballot for a voter (as long as they are not paid per ballot). The voter authorizes the person on the envelope; the designated returner must return it promptly (generally within 3 days or by Election Day close, whichever is earlier). ### Other Practical Differences Florida’s stricter receipt deadline and shorter cure window, combined with pre-processing of early-returned ballots, typically produce faster results reporting. California’s automatic mailing of ballots to all voters, postmark + multi-day receipt window, and longer cure period contribute to higher mail volume and slower final counts. Both systems include ballot tracking, chain-of-custody procedures, and bipartisan or multipartisan processing in many jurisdictions. Rules can have limited exceptions (military/overseas voters, emergencies, disabilities). Always check the current official guidance from the Florida Division of Elections or California Secretary of State / county elections offices, as statutes and administrative details can be updated.

Grok after talking to Procus all day

1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

I wouldn't say that it points in a direction that favors Trump. The ruling was purely based on the procedural aspect of the injunction. Very similar thing happened early in Trump's term regarding a immigration/deportation case. I forget which case it was, but the SC initially gave the Trump admin a "win" purely based on the procedural aspect of the case, and even stated so directly in the case that their ruling had nothing to do with the legality issue at hand, and of course all the MAGAs were doing handstands because they can't read. And then when it came to actually rule on the legality of the issue at hand, the Trump admin lost.

Sure but in this situation we have the entire topic of this being too close to November and they really should have used that aspect to decide against a stay. This ruling would seem to indicate they aren't going to take that into account.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Sure but in this situation we have the entire topic of this being too close to November and they really should have used that aspect to decide against a stay. This ruling would seem to indicate they aren't going to take that into account.

I don’t think this ruling indicates that. This ruling is based on the states not being harmed by the EO, and therefore they didn’t have a standing to sue.

What did this EO require from the states and/or what did it bar them from doing that caused injury?

1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

I don’t think this ruling indicates that. This ruling is based on the states not being harmed by the EO, and therefore they didn’t have a standing to sue.

What did this EO require from the states and/or what did it bar them from doing that caused injury?

It allows the post office decide who can receive mail in ballots and who cant. Which is a clear violation of the constitution. If I pass a law allowing rape and murder to be legal, we shouldn't have to actually wait for someone to be raped or murdered for it to be struck down.

38 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It allows the post office decide who can receive mail in ballots and who cant. Which is a clear violation of the constitution. If I pass a law allowing rape and murder to be legal, we shouldn't have to actually wait for someone to be raped or murdered for it to be struck down.

The EO does not allow the post office to decide who can receive mail in ballots and who can’t. The EO directed the post master general to initiate a proposed rule making for provisions regarding mail in ballots.

How is a state injured by the post master general initiating a proposed rule making for provisions regarding mail in ballots?

If the Final rule ends up containing provisions that would cause an injury to a state, then a state would have grounds to sue. They can’t sue based on what they think the final rule provisions are going to be.

"If I pass a law allowing rape and murder to be legal, we shouldn't have to actually wait for someone to be raped or murdered for it to be struck down.”

That’s not analogous to this situation as the EO isn’t making a new law. It’s not even making a final regulation.

50 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It allows the post office decide who can receive mail in ballots and who cant. Which is a clear violation of the constitution. If I pass a law allowing rape and murder to be legal, we shouldn't have to actually wait for someone to be raped or murdered for it to be struck down.

If a hypothetical President Elizabeth Warren wrote an EO directing the head of the IRS to initiate the process for writing a wealth tax provision, people wouldn’t have grounds to sue to stop the head of the IRS from doing so.  There’s no injury taking place from an agency putting together a draft provision.  You can’t sue on the grounds that you think that the final outcome of the provision that hasn’t even been drafted will contain language that violates the constitution.  

5 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

what did it bar them from doing that caused injury?

...

How is a state injured by the post master general initiating a proposed rule making for provisions regarding mail in ballots?

Oh come on. It's clearly intended to slow down and impede the process of getting mail-in ballots to voters. You already know this, so what's the point of this? Are you just doing that contrarian thing again like when you tried (and miserably failed) to claim Fauci sowed mistrust in the vaccine because he failed to predict the increase in transmissibility of Delta and Omicron? I don't know if it's a few after-dinner drinks that leads you into stuff this, or boredom, or what, but we can just call a spade a spade here.