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Sacks > Pressure.


EazyEaglez
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4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Nobody will convince me that FGs are better than TDs, but you can still win a game because of a FG. This thread is a waste of time. Everybody knows that a sack is better than just getting pressure on a QB, but a sack is a result of pressure. An INT can also result from a pressure and most would agree that an INT is better than a sack. 

 

Let me ask one question: If your defensive lineman are not going to get a sack on a play, would you want them to at least get pressure? 

 

One more question: If your defensive lineman are not going to tackle the running back, do you want them to at least disrupt the play?

 

There are 11 players on a defense and usually there is only going to be one or 2 players at most getting a "stat" after each play even if they all execute their responsibility perfectly. This is a team sport and usually there are going to be other players responsible for a sack that won't see it reflected in their stats. 

Don't waste your time with this guy......according to him, anything less than a sack is useless.......Nobody ever said pressures are more important than sacks....but it's either a sack or nothing.

 

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11 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

To answer your question simply I want players to make plays. There’s been plenty of times Nate Gerry was around the ball "disrupting” yet failing to make a play. If you’re trying to tell me disrupting or pressuring is some how equal or better than actually making the play I call you a fool and you’re wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise. I’ll add if you feel this thread is a waste of time then go and post to the 10 different other posts about Carson going on.

Part of being on an 11 man defense in football is doing your job so the defense makes a play. Unlike you, I want a defense (not a player) to make plays. Call me a fool all you want, but if one guy disrupts a play and another teammate finishes it off (gets the stat), it is equal or better than the stat itself because it wouldn't have happened if the first guy didn't cause it. 

 

Good news for you --- I'm here (on the EMB) to waste my time anyway. 

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I’ll take 8 sacks and 15 quarterback hits over no sacks, or hits and "pressure” all game every time.

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1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’ll take 8 sacks and 15 quarterback hits over no sacks, or hits and "pressure” all game every time.

Pressures are fine when they ultimately lead to more turnovers. But that doesn't happen with this team. 

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How did that pressure work out for us today? How did guys being there but not making the play work out today? 

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1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

How did that pressure work out for us today? How did guys being there but not making the play work out today? 

Dude roles out and caused no problems. The we worked on his roll outs and we did not affect the game with pressure. 

.notice the only time there was a problem was when Graham actually hit him?

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1 minute ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Dude roles out and caused no problems. The we worked on his roll outs and we did not affect the game with pressure. 

.notice the only time there was a problem was when Graham actually hit him?

The only time he had any problems was when the Eagles hit him or touched him, but for the most part Goff just picked them apart as the almost got there. 

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1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

The only time he had any problems was when the Eagles hit him or touched him, but for the most part Goff just picked them apart as the almost got there. 

It's a joke with the whole team it's always an excuse. I'm glad I'm a Lakers fan because  I can at least enjoy one team not so sheety

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The press are even starting to turn on Cox now, Today was just embarrassing, even as few sacks as this d-line gets we could ALWAYS stuff the run... until Today. Today was flat out awful.

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Just now, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The press are even starting to turn on Cox now, Today was just embarrassing, even as few sacks as this d-line gets we could ALWAYS stuff the run... until Today. Today was flat out awful.

This defensive line makes so much money not to make plays. So many mistakes by Howie Roseman giving these guys money while failing to find adequate replacements in the draft. Too bad the Eagles don’t have someone like Malcom Jenkins in that locker room right now to step up and lead this defense. 

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Just now, EazyEaglez said:

This defensive line makes so much money not to make plays. So many mistakes by Howie Roseman giving these guys money while failing to find adequate replacements in the draft. Too bad the Eagles don’t have someone like Malcom Jenkins in that locker room right now to step up and lead this defense. 

Said in the game day thread, I didn't really understand letting Jenkins walk unless you're going to find a replacement through free agency or the draft, we haven't found a replacement for the plays,  but the biggest loss is the leadership back there, the defense is a shambles.

Schwartz is like Wentz, he gets endless generosity about not having personnel, but whoever we play back there the standard is the same, Schwartz should be on a very hot seat.

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1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

How did that pressure work out for us today? How did guys being there but not making the play work out today? 

We had more sacks than the rams and still lost. How can that be?

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25 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

We had more sacks than the rams and still lost. How can that be?

Because we didn’t hit Goff nearly enough. Every time we hit him he made mistakes. Every time we pressured him he lit our defense up. 

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7 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Because we didn’t hit Goff nearly enough. Every time we hit him he made mistakes. Every time we pressured him he lit our defense up. 

I think they only hit him a few times didn't they? It was shocking. They rolled him out so often to negate any kind of weak pass rush. 

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On 9/18/2020 at 8:41 AM, brkmsn said:

Nobody will convince me that FGs are better than TDs, but you can still win a game because of a FG. This thread is a waste of time. Everybody knows that a sack is better than just getting pressure on a QB, but a sack is a result of pressure. An INT can also result from a pressure and most would agree that an INT is better than a sack. 

 

Let me ask one question: If your defensive lineman are not going to get a sack on a play, would you want them to at least get pressure? 

 

One more question: If your defensive lineman are not going to tackle the running back, do you want them to at least disrupt the play?

 

There are 11 players on a defense and usually there is only going to be one or 2 players at most getting a "stat" after each play even if they all execute their responsibility perfectly. This is a team sport and usually there are going to be other players responsible for a sack that won't see it reflected in their stats. 

So with all those guys against the Rams who almost made those plays, but missed tackles, got pressure but missed making a sack did it make you feel better? How’s almost making a play make you feel? 

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1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

So with all those guys against the Rams who almost made those plays, but missed tackles, got pressure but missed making a sack did it make you feel better? How’s almost making a play make you feel? 

While I'll agree that pressure is better then nothing, still doesn't change the fact that Graham and a few others on the line have been at the top of the league in pressures yet I don't ever see anyone fearing our defensive line in the last 10 years or so..... 

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41 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

While I'll agree that pressure is better then nothing, still doesn't change the fact that Graham and a few others on the line have been at the top of the league in pressures yet I don't ever see anyone fearing our defensive line in the last 10 years or so..... 

Because pressures alone mean nothing. You have to be putting hits on the quarterback in order to get any type of flustering from that position. He doesn’t start feeling pressure that isn’t there until he’s getting hit constantly. You know when they call it "seeing ghosts.” A quarterback being pressured but not hit can light a team up. Sometimes teams actually invite pressure, because it allows them to set teams up with screens, reverses, and other misdirection plays. Pressure alone is a PFF stat that turns slightly above average to good players like Brandon Graham, and makes them elite at least in the minds of the people who love that stat. 

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6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Because pressures alone mean nothing. You have to be putting hits on the quarterback in order to get any type of flustering from that position. He doesn’t start feeling pressure that isn’t there until he’s getting hit constantly. You know when they call it "seeing ghosts.” A quarterback being pressured but not hit can light a team up. Sometimes teams actually invite pressure, because it allows them to set teams up with screens, reverses, and other misdirection plays. Pressure alone is a PFF stat that turns slightly above average to good players like Brandon Graham, and makes them elite at least in the minds of the people who love that stat. 

There was even a time that Wentz was the best against the blitz... Now was that a blitz that just brought pressure or a blitz that knocked him on his arse? Me thinks it's when he gets knocked on his arse multiple times that he is not so good against the blitz

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7 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

There was even a time that Wentz was the best against the blitz... Now was that a blitz that just brought pressure or a blitz that knocked him on his arse? Me thinks it's when he gets knocked on his arse multiple times that he is not so good against the blitz

Its interesting actually. I listened to the Kist & Solak podcast a couple of weeks ago and they were saying that actually Carson isn't good against pressure. He makes jaw dropping plays that make us think he is but actually he's not. Now I think the stats would suggest otherwise so I think the trust is probably a little in the middle. 

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12 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

So with all those guys against the Rams who almost made those plays, but missed tackles, got pressure but missed making a sack did it make you feel better? How’s almost making a play make you feel? 

Are you referring to any specific play or desperately trying to work some kind of baseless "I told you so" out of this stupid thread? As I pointed out, the Rams had no sacks and we had 1. Zero is better than 1 on this day. Ironically, since you had to bring this up (when you should have just left well enough alone), What did you think of the Aaron Donald pressure on that Troy Hill INT? 

11 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

While I'll agree that pressure is better then nothing, still doesn't change the fact that Graham and a few others on the line have been at the top of the league in pressures yet I don't ever see anyone fearing our defensive line in the last 10 years or so..... 

I don't think that's accurate. Teams don't hold the ball very long against the Eagles by game plan. They know we can pressure the QB. Over the last couple years they also knew our CBs played way off the receivers and that someone would be open for a quick throw. Hopefully this group of CBs can force a little change to that approach. But to say teams don't fear our pass rush just isn't true. The Eagles, after an 8 sack (allowed) season debut, feared Aaron Donald and deployed a game plan on offense to prevent him from having a field day. Don't tell me that's what the Eagles normally do offensively and don't tell me that change wasn't made out of "fear." By the same token, teams play the Eagles a little differently. When they don't fear our pass rush and start holding the ball longer, you'll see our sacks increase. 

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2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Are you referring to any specific play or desperately trying to work some kind of baseless "I told you so" out of this stupid thread? As I pointed out, the Rams had no sacks and we had 1. Zero is better than 1 on this day. Ironically, since you had to bring this up (when you should have just left well enough alone), What did you think of the Aaron Donald pressure on that Troy Hill INT? 

I don't think that's accurate. Teams don't hold the ball very long against the Eagles by game plan. They know we can pressure the QB. Over the last couple years they also knew our CBs played way off the receivers and that someone would be open for a quick throw. Hopefully this group of CBs can force a little change to that approach. But to say teams don't fear our pass rush just isn't true. The Eagles, after an 8 sack (allowed) season debut, feared Aaron Donald and deployed a game plan on offense to prevent him from having a field day. Don't tell me that's what the Eagles normally do offensively and don't tell me that change wasn't made out of "fear." By the same token, teams play the Eagles a little differently. When they don't fear our pass rush and start holding the ball longer, you'll see our sacks increase. 

Fist off teams don’t have to hold the ball long against the Eagles because they don’t have to since most of the time their secondary is giving 10 yard cushions, but considering the Rams had no problem going deep on the Eagles either I guess all the pressure that you are going Gaga for didn’t amount to much either. Ironically you want to trash the Eagles sack when it was one of the Few times they got off the frigging field. 😂 Keep trying. Keep failing. 

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2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Fist off teams don’t have to hold the ball long against the Eagles because they don’t have to since most of the time their secondary is giving 10 yard cushions, but considering the Rams had no problem going deep on the Eagles either I guess all the pressure that you are going Gaga for didn’t amount to much either. Ironically you want to trash the Eagles sack when it was one of the Few times they got off the frigging field. 😂 Keep trying. Keep failing. 

So ... no comment on the Donald pressure? Oh ... and what did the Eagles give up, one long pass (28 yards) to Higbee? You're acting like the ball traveled far on a bunch of passes.

For the record, I'm not lauding the Eagles defense for pressure created so far this season. Honestly, they've been disappointing so far, but I expected as much with Hargrave and Barnett missing virtually all of camp, new LBs (and Gerry) and a revamped secondary. I expect to see improvement going forward. My only real argument here is that pressures aren't unimportant. You repeatedly only offer straw man arguments (i.e. "Ironically you want to trash the Eagles sack when it was one of the Few times they got off the frigging field." ) I never trashed the sack. I'll continue to point out that pressuring the QB can be every bit as important and here I used the winning team that recorded no sacks as an example. Try to keep up. 

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On 9/14/2020 at 1:37 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Ertz has to go because paying him is at this point stupidity. We can't pay top money to a 30+ year old TE. Sure maybe his game does translate to being able to play at a high level for a few more years but this team doesn't translate to that. 

Exactly. Once Dallas was drafted and showed his potential, it sealed Zachs fate. They will either extend him at a very team friendly deal if he chose to stay or go find a big pay elsewhere if hes not traded.

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Meh. Sacks are overrated. I mean you get a sack and then let the team convert on 3rd and 15th then its useless. If you check the team with the most sacks from 3 to 6. They are the Eagles, Texans, Giants and Broncos and they have won a total of 0 games

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2 hours ago, manz2821 said:

Meh. Sacks are overrated. I mean you get a sack and then let the team convert on 3rd and 15th then its useless. If you check the team with the most sacks from 3 to 6. They are the Eagles, Texans, Giants and Broncos and they have won a total of 0 games

Sacks with this team are overrated but then pressures lead to nothing either because this team doesn't every turn the ball over. I mean i have never seen anything like it. 

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