34 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

He has his own issues, sure....mainly injuries and being streaky.  But he never got a fair shot here with Wentz being drafted at #2, despite winning us a superbowl and saving our season the year afterward as well. 

In 2018, Wentz didn’t participate in offseason training. OTAs, mini camps, and I don’t believe TC either. Foles had all that plus preseason and the first two games of the regular season. At the very least, he could have made the decision to put Wentz back in in week 3 very difficult. His play then wasn’t close to where it was in the NFCCG and Super Bowl. 

47 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

Things can change quickly in the NFL, and this was a unique situation.  Just because someone is "brought in as the backup" doesn't mean they should never get a chance to start, especially if they win the team a superbowl.  No one should be guaranteed a starting spot just because of where they were drafted. 

Does Wentz look like he's "good enough long term"? 

Foles isn't good enough to be a starter. It's why he wasn't in Jacksonville and why he isn't in Chicago. At this point everyone just needs to accept that. He would have lost out to Wentz too. 

14 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

In 2018, Wentz didn’t participate in offseason training. OTAs, mini camps, and I don’t believe TC either. Foles had all that plus preseason and the first two games of the regular season. At the very least, he could have made the decision to put Wentz back in in week 3 very difficult. His play then wasn’t close to where it was in the NFCCG and Super Bowl. 

I agree, those first two games were very average.  But when he came back toward the end of that season, he saved our season AGAIN and had 2-3 really good games in that stretch.  I just don't think Wentz or any high drafted player in general should ever have a guaranteed starting job. 

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Foles isn't good enough to be a starter. It's why he wasn't in Jacksonville and why he isn't in Chicago. At this point everyone just needs to accept that. He would have lost out to Wentz too. 

He's not good enough to be a starter, but he's good enough to be a superbowl MVP?  Okay.  Jacksonville never gave him a chance to start, he got hurt and they just gave it to Minshew because he had a few good games.  Chicago was going with Trubisky regardless.  Is Wentz good enough to be a starter? 

7 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

I agree, those first two games were very average.  But when he came back toward the end of that season, he saved our season AGAIN and had 2-3 really good games in that stretch.  I just don't think Wentz or any high drafted player in general should ever have a guaranteed starting job. 

Certainly, but how much of that, (and 2017) can be attributed to him not having the same degree of wear and tear by that point in the season compared to others? Just like he saved our bacon twice, we can’t rely on him not playing 60-75% of the season and playing great late in the season all the time. 

There was glimpse of hope yesterday, hopefully they will figure things out rather sooner than later so Cowboys won't run away too much

24 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

He's not good enough to be a starter, but he's good enough to be a superbowl MVP?  Okay.  Jacksonville never gave him a chance to start, he got hurt and they just gave it to Minshew because he had a few good games.  Chicago was going with Trubisky regardless.  Is Wentz good enough to be a starter? 

Again though... Foles is streaky. Always has been. That's why he's not been able to nail down a starting role wherever he's been. 

And no right now Wentz isn't. Who knows what the future holds now for Wentz. But I do believe they made the right decision not going with Foles. 

So first part...

Wentz hasn't been the same since 2017. That ACL injury seems to have either impacted his play or mentally he just isn't the same.

His mechanics have regressed, he seems to be more determined than ever to force things which lead to more mistakes and he doesn't ever seem to make plays with his feet. 

Nothing he does looks easy or natural. It all looks forced and all looks difficult to him. 

Can he fix that? Let's hope so but it doesn't look great right now does it. 

The second part...

Wentz has more rope than Doug I have very little doubt about that. Wentz is the guy this organization has planted their flag on. All of the eggs are in his basket. 

If things don't improve then Doug will go. And that is really sad because actually I think of the big trio of Howie, Doug and Carson I think Doug is the one I'm most confident of. 

Howie will get more time even though he should be the first to go. But Carson stays longer than Doug if things continue to go badly. We see it all the time in the NFL. 

6 hours ago, phil77 said:

Wentz at one point early in his career he was the clear cut NFL MVP through 14 weeks of the regular season. Nobody is really arguing that if he had not gotten hurt he was going to be the NFL MVP. During that season he flashed amazing high end skill set that he was able to translate on the field with the help of Doug and his coaching staff.  Fast forward a couple years and he will still flash that high end skill set from time to time but he has seemly regressed as a player and decision maker.

So my question is (FIRST PART)

How much of it is Wentz? He just all the sudden sucks now? 

How much is that Doug and his new offensive staff isn't doing a good enough job getting the most out of Wentz? 

I will leave the front office out of it as I believe their is enough talent on the office to not be the worst in the NFL or close to the worst.  

(SECOND PART)

If Doug and Wentz can't make it work together who will go first?   

If you think it is a coaching problem should we trade Wentz to the Colts so he can play under Reich who might have been the mastermind?  

 

 

I don't think it is a case of him sucking all of a sudden, I think it's a case that an average body of work has been constantly elevated by a purple patch in 2017 and things like the meaningless 4000 yards with no 500 yards receiver thing from last year,  his yardages are largely a product of volume, he threw 607 times last year, which was like 5th in the league, the other 4 guys who threw more also went over 4000 yards, in 3 cases well over.  The no receivers thing means nothing more than we have a TE who dominates reception yardage and a second TE who eats the traditional slot yardage, the low interception numbers are a by product of dinking and dunking to wide open TE's over the middle.  David Carr threw over 4000 yards last year and had a couple of receivers just about break 600yards, because his TE went for a 1000yards too. 

The team and the fans have been sat, clutching their prayer beads chanting I want to believe so hard that we kind of overlooked the persistent signs that Wentz wasn't on an upward trajectory, we just kept believing that Wentz was clearly a top level QB despite increasing evidence he was a mid tier guy.

As for who goes first it depends how ugly this season gets, at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if we went 2-14 and if we did I wouldn't be surprised to see Lurie blow the whole thing up and start again rather than let Doug and Howie waste another draft on projects and back ups.

Carson isn’t playing well. We see it.
 

All Qb’s miss throws, miss wide open receivers, make poor decisions etc. Carson just happens to do it on the team we care deeply about.

So who is to blame? Everybody has a piece of it. Dropped passes, bad play calls, crappy protection, turnovers, poor mechanics, bad draft picks, bad FA signings, stupid trades, no preseason, injuries, friction between coach and upper management etc

 

Wentz needs to play better, Doug needs to coach better, Howie needs to GM better.
 

However, does benching Wentz help?

That is probably where I would start. 

Wentz is getting outplayed by the likes of Fitzpatrick, Allen, Haskins, Minshew, Bridgewater, Mayfield, Trubisky ... heck even the rookies making their 1st or 2nd career starts (Burrow, Herbert) are outplaying him.  He is not even in the same zip code as the better QBs in the league (Wilson, Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, etc.).  😞

5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'm not going to get in to that. I agree he's not playing well enough right now. But 1) it's only 2 games and 2) the organisation are going to stick with him longer than the fans will. 

Whatever is going on they better figure it out soon. The defense as well. Those guys look horrible right now. 

12 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Whatever is going on they better figure it out soon. The defense as well. Those guys look horrible right now. 

The players are disinterested or at least they look like they are!

11 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s pretty awful what this GM has put together especially when you consider how much over the cap they will be next season with like 40 players under contract. The most expensive defensive line in football can’t even get to the quarterback consistently. Howie has done a terrible job. 

When you really look at the roster it's actually shocking how bad it is in terms of youth, it's the work of someone who hasn't a clue how to build a team and couldn't spot the talent if he did. Chip Kelly may not have been right about much but he had Howie figured as a talent evaluator.

 

23 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

When you really look at the roster it's actually shocking how bad it is in terms of youth, it's the work of someone who hasn't a clue how to build a team and couldn't spot the talent if he did. Chip Kelly may not have been right about much but he had Howie figured as a talent evaluator.

 

Just like I wrote in the G-B-U thread that when you look at this defense and you see no young players that you can hold you head up and can’t wait to watch him develop. At least the offense has Sanders and Reagor who look promising, but nothing on defense. Neither the offensive or defensive lines have any young studs that you’re confident in either and don’t give me Andre Dillard. It doesn’t even seem like the Eagles have much confidence in that guy. I know people will want to try and blame "the haul they gave up for Wentz” as the reason for lack of talent. It’s completely false. Howie traded away Sam Bradford that lightened that blow, but the 14, 15, and 17 Eagles draft selections are no longer on this team. Howie’s using top picks to select projects and backups when he could be picking starters at positions of need. Howie’s giving up picks for one year rental players. Howie has constructed a poor aging football team and when everything goes down Doug will take the fall for Howie’s crap sandwich. 

6 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You pretty much heard what you wanted to hear and not what was said.

Seems like I heard it correctly, because you basically confirmed that my quote was accurate. So, we heard the same thing but interpreted it differently.

22 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The players are disinterested or at least they look like they are!

Right now I don’t see a team that’s fighting at least not for a full game. The defensive line was horrible I. This game. The DEs lost containment all game. The DTs hardly did anything. The defensive coaches never adjusted. Then there’s  the quarterback who looks clueless and looks like his confidence is rattled. 

Just now, EaglesRocker97 said:

Seems like I heard it correctly, because you basically confirmed that my quote was accurate. So, we heard the same thing but interpreted it differently.

If you heard it correctly, you sure paraphrased it inaccurately. As I stated, the booth crew botched the "lead in" to that report. The quotes I posted wore word for word. You don't tell a QB to slide rather than risk an INT. You tell him to slide to prevent taking a pounding. It wasn't misery that instructs, it was pain. There's a big difference contextually in relation to the point Pederson was making. Your version twisted it into a "knock" on Doug. 

15 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s not lost on me that this QB’s mobility seems completely lacking < from > what it used to be. 

What we don't know is: has he been instructed to do this by coaching / team mgmt. ?

Or is he genuinely unwilling or unable to scramble the way he once did ? 

7 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

If you heard it correctly, you sure paraphrased it inaccurately. As I stated, the booth crew botched the "lead in" to that report. The quotes I posted wore word for word. You don't tell a QB to slide rather than risk an INT. You tell him to slide to prevent taking a pounding. It wasn't misery that instructs, it was pain. There's a big difference contextually in relation to the point Pederson was making. Your version twisted it into a "knock" on Doug. 

Misery/pain...is there really that much of a difference? The basic message was "I don't tell Wentz when he makes a mistake. I let him deal with the emotional/physical repercussions himself and figure it out."

3 minutes ago, McNabbIsDone said:

What we don't know is: has he been instructed to do this by coaching / team mgmt. ?

Or is he genuinely unwilling or unable to scramble the way he once did ? 

Considering that he doesn’t seem to listen to the coaches regarding fixing his mechanics, I’d lean toward the second option. 

3 minutes ago, McNabbIsDone said:

What we don't know is: has he been instructed to do this by coaching / team mgmt. ?

Or is he genuinely unwilling or unable to scramble the way he once did ? 

We do know that when he does move he doesn’t look nearly as explosive as he used to look. 

1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Misery/pain...is there really that much of a difference? The basic message was "I don't tell Wentz when he makes a mistake. I let him deal with the emotional/physical repercussions himself and figure it out."

Misery is mental and pain is physical. That's a significant difference. 

That's your twisted interpretation on the "message". As a player, he would say to Favre that he should not sacrifice his body. As a coach he has to consider that message he is sending. It's that simple. As a coach, are you really going to tell your QB not to stand and take a hit ever? I would hope not. As a player, he gave advice, but as a coach, he has to actually coach. 

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

We do know that when he does move he doesn’t look nearly as explosive as he used to look. 

He looks indecisive when he does look to run like he isn't sure if he should or not . That would lead to not being explosive as well

9 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

We do know that when he does move he doesn’t look nearly as explosive as he used to look. 

He looks the same to me when he moves. What I have seen this season is Washington used a "spy" and created a lot of pressure with their D-line. In the Rams game, the game plan was simply to not hold the ball very long. So we just haven't seen the runs from him.