5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Really great points there mate. I do remember all the talk about how smart he was and how he could read defenses. I mean we saw him do that a lot! We saw him change plays and we saw him do it with great success. 

So I guess the question that needs to be answered is... What's changed? Why isn't he now? I mean you'd think the injuries would make him more Conservative rather than more of a gunslinger? But perhaps he's forcing things too much? 

He's still reading defenses and changing plays. How many times has Doug said Carson got them in a better play? I suppose nobody remembers the "Raider" audible thursday night. What's changed is the whole team around him. He's playing with an entire offense full of backups and third stringers outside of his center! He's never going to be conservative so if that's what you want you're going to be miserable. He forces things because the talent right now isn't good enough and Doug's play calling is idiotic at times. Some of you only see what you want to see, watch other games and you'll start to see there's not many perfect players out there, in fact there are none! Every QB misses throws, makes a wrong read or does something stupid once in awhile. Sometimes it's not even their fault, remember there's 10 other guys out there with them and guess what, they make mistakes too. That's what makes football the ultimate team sport, everyone has to do their job and be on the same page to make it work.

23 minutes ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

He's still reading defenses and changing plays. How many times has Doug said Carson got them in a better play? I suppose nobody remembers the "Raider" audible thursday night. What's changed is the whole team around him. He's playing with an entire offense full of backups and third stringers outside of his center! He's never going to be conservative so if that's what you want you're going to be miserable. He forces things because the talent right now isn't good enough and Doug's play calling is idiotic at times. Some of you only see what you want to see, watch other games and you'll start to see there's not many perfect players out there, in fact there are none! Every QB misses throws, makes a wrong read or does something stupid once in awhile. Sometimes it's not even their fault, remember there's 10 other guys out there with them and guess what, they make mistakes too. That's what makes football the ultimate team sport, everyone has to do their job and be on the same page to make it work.

The irony is, if Wentz played Checkdown Charlie ala Sam Bradford, the fans would crucify him over it.

7 hours ago, NoDak Eagle said:

Obviously not saying he’s Brady but just a comparison of their first 4 years in the league 

Yep. Much better than Brees too. Or Rodgers (who sat 4 years).

People forget that a guy like Brees wasn't really Brees until his 8th season in. Not everyone can be a Mahomes or a Wilson from the get go.

On 10/26/2020 at 12:25 AM, Runtherock said:

I’m fairly convinced Wentz does not respect Pederson. Half the time when Pederson is talking to him on the sideline Wentz doesn’t even make eye contact. Not a good situation. An uncoachable franchise QB, hard to see how this is going to work long term.

Complete BS and that’s all I will say on that comment 

Kyler Murray took the year two step would be nice for the year five step 

On 10/26/2020 at 1:25 AM, Runtherock said:

I’m fairly convinced Wentz does not respect Pederson. Half the time when Pederson is talking to him on the sideline Wentz doesn’t even make eye contact. Not a good situation. An uncoachable franchise QB, hard to see how this is going to work long term.

Awwww come on now, man. Get this kind of crap oot of here.

On 10/24/2020 at 3:45 PM, NoDak Eagle said:

Wentz (63) has played almost as many games as Eagles QB as Vick (40) and Foles (32) combined though?

10 hours ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

He's still reading defenses and changing plays. How many times has Doug said Carson got them in a better play? I suppose nobody remembers the "Raider" audible thursday night. What's changed is the whole team around him. He's playing with an entire offense full of backups and third stringers outside of his center! He's never going to be conservative so if that's what you want you're going to be miserable. He forces things because the talent right now isn't good enough and Doug's play calling is idiotic at times. Some of you only see what you want to see, watch other games and you'll start to see there's not many perfect players out there, in fact there are none! Every QB misses throws, makes a wrong read or does something stupid once in awhile. Sometimes it's not even their fault, remember there's 10 other guys out there with them and guess what, they make mistakes too. That's what makes football the ultimate team sport, everyone has to do their job and be on the same page to make it work.

All true.  But when things were going great in 2017, the talk was "Wentz for MVPZ!" and basically no credit was given to the rest of the team.  The same team that the backup QB won the SB with.

As you said, people saw what they wanted to see.

10 hours ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Kyler Murray took the year two step would be nice for the year five step 

Wentz is making questionable decisions for sure but he is probably desperate to try to get something going while playing with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers.  I'd really like to see if his level of play could return closer to what we saw in 2017 if he had an opportunity to play with most of what would be his projected starters and also with better play calling / a new scheme on offense.  Like Schwartz's scheme on defense, the scheme on offense doesn't tend to cater to the strengths of the players that are on the field.  Playing with all backup OL except C and Doug still continues to call a ridiculously skewed balance forcing Wentz to throw 45 times while only running the ball 12-15 times.  Obviously asking the inexperienced players to run block would be easier than pass pro.  

3 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Wentz (63) has played almost as many games as Eagles QB as Vick (40) and Foles (32) combined though?

In 2017, I think the early Giants game was probably the only one. We were actually pretty good that season getting leads and holding them. I think most of Wentz' comebacks have actually been from the last 2 seasons. There were a few during that stretch where the defense didn't hold up at the end (but that probably happens to most QBs along the way).

1 hour ago, Mortimer said:

All true.  But when things were going great in 2017, the talk was "Wentz for MVPZ!" and basically no credit was given to the rest of the team.  The same team that the backup QB won the SB with.

As you said, people saw what they wanted to see.

Oh I agree. I don't think 2017 was even his best season. His stats weren't really that great aside from the 33 TD's. We had a very good run game that season and an opportunistic defense. 

24 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Wentz is making questionable decisions for sure but he is probably desperate to try to get something going while playing with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers.  I'd really like to see if his level of play could return closer to what we saw in 2017 if he had an opportunity to play with most of what would be his projected starters and also with better play calling / a new scheme on offense.  Like Schwartz's scheme on defense, the scheme on offense doesn't tend to cater to the strengths of the players that are on the field.  Playing with all backup OL except C and Doug still continues to call a ridiculously skewed balance forcing Wentz to throw 45 times while only running the ball 12-15 times.  Obviously asking the inexperienced players to run block would be easier than pass pro.  

Pretty much every supposed elite QB has to play with back up receivers and a patched up line at some point, the best QB's elevate the players around them. Wentz gets a free pass every time he loses a tackle or his receiver is out for a game.  I don't rate Doug's offense either, but I know I've seen Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Luck and even Rivers put up a semblance of offense with less than stellar receivers and a dinged up line.

Less then stellar receivers and a dinged up line???? LOL that would be an improvement over what we have right now!

12 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Pretty much every supposed elite QB has to play with back up receivers and a patched up line at some point, the best QB's elevate the players around them. Wentz gets a free pass every time he loses a tackle or his receiver is out for a game.  I don't rate Doug's offense either, but I know I've seen Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Luck and even Rivers put up a semblance of offense with less than stellar receivers and a dinged up line.

So you don't think Wentz is elevating the play of Fulgham, Ward, Rich Rod etc? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they put up 50 some points against 2 of the best defenses in the league? I'd say that is "a semblance of an offense." 

I would not call this oline dinged up, decimated might be a more proper term. Dinged up would be an improvement.

23 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Pretty much every supposed elite QB has to play with back up receivers and a patched up line at some point, the best QB's elevate the players around them. Wentz gets a free pass every time he loses a tackle or his receiver is out for a game.  I don't rate Doug's offense either, but I know I've seen Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Luck and even Rivers put up a semblance of offense with less than stellar receivers and a dinged up line.

I might agree but we’re fielding quite a bit more than a dinged up OL (not only down 4 or 5 projected starters but even #2s in some cases) and he is missing all of his projecting skill position players right now (other than Ward if you consider slot WR a "starter”) now with Ertz and Sanders out too. 

I’m usually not one to continually make excuses for him (or anyone) and I’ve been hard on him as well (some of his issues go beyond the injuries), but it is really hard to get a feel for where he is at this year due to missing so many pieces around him (and of course the play calling / scheme isn’t helping).  

Wentz is a good QB I don't think a rational person would deny that. But the fact remains he has always been terrible at getting rid of the ball or throwing it away. This has lead to fumbles and picks. The other side of that is he has made some ridiculous plays out of nothing but this year it's been 100x worse because of the OLine. Peterson and Wentz really need to accept that and really work on quicker throws and throwing the ball away...I don't expect that unfortunately.

17 minutes ago, thedanone82 said:

Wentz is a good QB I don't think a rational person would deny that. But the fact remains he has always been terrible at getting rid of the ball or throwing it away. This has lead to fumbles and picks. The other side of that is he has made some ridiculous plays out of nothing but this year it's been 100x worse because of the OLine. Peterson and Wentz really need to accept that and really work on quicker throws and throwing the ball away...I don't expect that unfortunately.

It’s as if Doug is ignoring all the injuries and how horribly the offense is performing for the most part and forcing them to run his offense rather than adjusting the scheme.  

32 minutes ago, thedanone82 said:

Wentz is a good QB I don't think a rational person would deny that. But the fact remains he has always been terrible at getting rid of the ball or throwing it away. This has lead to fumbles and picks. The other side of that is he has made some ridiculous plays out of nothing but this year it's been 100x worse because of the OLine. Peterson and Wentz really need to accept that and really work on quicker throws and throwing the ball away...I don't expect that unfortunately.

I agree with this too. He needs to be smarter with throwing the ball away for sure. It's just such an internal struggle for him to give up on a play but he simply has to get better at it.

Doug has definitely not done this offense any favors with some of his play calling especially considering the 2's and 3's in there.

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Pretty much every supposed elite QB has to play with back up receivers and a patched up line at some point, the best QB's elevate the players around them. Wentz gets a free pass every time he loses a tackle or his receiver is out for a game.  I don't rate Doug's offense either, but I know I've seen Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Luck and even Rivers put up a semblance of offense with less than stellar receivers and a dinged up line.

Exactly this. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, etc are all dealing with a short deck. Tom Brady was missing Mike Evans for crying our loud. He only had Godwin, Gronkowski and the rest of the squad to work with. Now he has to figure it out with Antonio Brown as well? What's the guy supposed to do!?

Now seriously...

How many of them have anywhere near the injuries on the offensive side of the ball that the Eagles have? How many of them have ever had that many injuries on the offensive side? How many times has Wentz had the luxury of a full team with only a player or two that wasn't out?

Probably zero, to all of those questions. The last time he did, was probably 2017 (MVP year) or 2018 (arguably better or as good as his 2017 year).

14 hours ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

He's still reading defenses and changing plays. How many times has Doug said Carson got them in a better play? I suppose nobody remembers the "Raider" audible thursday night. What's changed is the whole team around him. He's playing with an entire offense full of backups and third stringers outside of his center! He's never going to be conservative so if that's what you want you're going to be miserable. He forces things because the talent right now isn't good enough and Doug's play calling is idiotic at times. Some of you only see what you want to see, watch other games and you'll start to see there's not many perfect players out there, in fact there are none! Every QB misses throws, makes a wrong read or does something stupid once in awhile. Sometimes it's not even their fault, remember there's 10 other guys out there with them and guess what, they make mistakes too. That's what makes football the ultimate team sport, everyone has to do their job and be on the same page to make it work.

This just isn't true though for all the games, and I like Wentz and think he has talent to be great.  I've repeated this many times in this thread:  he had his starters early in the year and was playing terrible, making bad decisions, forcing throws, missing basic throws that any QB should make, holding the ball too long taking sacks, and throwing interceptions.  This is when he had Jackson, Reagor, Ertz, Goedert, Sanders, Ward, and most of his O line starters.

It happened last year as well:  played poorly in stretches when his starters were in there.  He has played better the last couple weeks with the backups and practice squad guys, same as the end of last year with scrubs and backups.  

You can't keep blaming injuries and backups when he doesn't play well with the starters and then plays better with backups out there.  He's an up and down player and tends to rise to the occasion when they are down or when he's relying on backups.  

I do agree the play calling doesn't play to his strengths.  The coaches are finally getting him out in space to create on the move and he's running more for first downs.  

Good discussion.  Wentz does have some flaws he needs to work on but he is also fighting like crazy to keep the Eagles afloat.  Guy's got a lot of heart.  With Dallas falling apart, we can actually win the division which would be another miracle.  And right now we have #11 to thank for that.

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

Exactly this. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, etc are all dealing with a short deck. Tom Brady was missing Mike Evans for crying our loud. He only had Godwin, Gronkowski and the rest of the squad to work with. Now he has to figure it out with Antonio Brown as well? What's the guy supposed to do!?

Now seriously...

How many of them have anywhere near the injuries on the offensive side of the ball that the Eagles have? How many of them have ever had that many injuries on the offensive side? How many times has Wentz had the luxury of a full team with only a player or two that wasn't out?

Probably zero, to all of those questions. The last time he did, was probably 2017 (MVP year) or 2018 (arguably better or as good as his 2017 year).

Last year we got beat by a 2-9 Miami that had given up 40 points to the Cleveland Browns a week prior with a fully healthy offensive line, all our starting receivers bar DJAX,  both tight ends, Sanders and Ajayi, but yeah the problem is injuries.

 

10 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Last year we got beat by a 2-9 Miami that had given up 40 points to the Cleveland Browns a week prior with a fully healthy offensive line, all our starting receivers bar DJAX,  both tight ends, Sanders and Ajayi, but yeah the problem is injuries.

 

The same game that we scored 31 points (would've been 34 had Elliot not missed a kick)? The same game that Wentz threw for 300+ and 3 TDs? The same game where the defense gave up almost 40 points to Miami, which would be their second highest of the season? The only team Miami scored more against was Cincy, who had the number one pick and it took them to OT to score that many. They never scored anywhere close to that outside of those two games and we're one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

Yeah, let's blame Wentz. Nice agenda you have, there. Not saying he's perfect, but the guy shouldnt need to routinely score 40 to win games. The defense gets paid, too.

Whether with starters or backups, people have been complaining about Wentz' up and down play since the Super Bowl.  You can cherry pick games for either side of the argument.  Fact is, sometimes Wentz plays excellent, sometimes he plays poorly sometimes you get both in the same game in different quarters.  It happens with both starters and backups so you can't really blame only the injuries.

You can factor in coaching changes, play calling, injuries to O line and playmakers...but then realize that sometimes he plays poorly when the team is healthy and plays great with backups and practice squad guys.  He also tends to play better when the coaches let him create and get on the move.  

2 hours ago, Miami said:

Good discussion.  Wentz does have some flaws he needs to work on but he is also fighting like crazy to keep the Eagles afloat.  Guy's got a lot of heart.  With Dallas falling apart, we can actually win the division which would be another miracle.  And right now we have #11 to thank for that.

Ok but on the flip side, if Wentz wasn’t so terrible the first three weeks, we’d be looking at a 4-3 record right now rather than 2-4-1. He was the number one reason they lost to Washington and tied the damn Bengals.