On 9/14/2020 at 9:21 AM, ManchesterEagle said:

Yeah, or if he gets hurt again. 

I don’t know if Hurts was the right choice to be the Wentz replacement, but one has to wonder how long Wentz will play in the NFL. Even the Wentz worshippers should be able to see that his previous injuries combined with his current style will not lead to a guy playing into his 40s. With that being the case if they’re using a 2nd round pick in 2020 cause they’re afraid Wentz will putter out then they made a huge mistake giving him that contract to begin with. Nothing can really justify that Hurts pick. Howie should have used that pick to get someone who can protect the Franchise investment and not used the pick to hedge on his Wentz gamble. 

21 hours ago, nipples said:

Ok but on the flip side, if Wentz wasn’t so terrible the first three weeks, we’d be looking at a 4-3 record right now rather than 2-4-1. He was the number one reason they lost to Washington and tied the damn Bengals. 

This

22 hours ago, nipples said:

Ok but on the flip side, if Wentz wasn’t so terrible the first three weeks, we’d be looking at a 4-3 record right now rather than 2-4-1. He was the number one reason they lost to Washington and tied the damn Bengals. 

True.  Am not sure Wentz is our guy for the future unless he fixes some of his bad habits.  But for now we are alive because of him.  Hoping for the best because Eagles football is getting hard to watch, particularly when you watch other high-scoring games.

1 hour ago, Miami said:

True.  Am not sure Wentz is our guy for the future unless he fixes some of his bad habits.  But for now we are alive because of him.  Hoping for the best because Eagles football is getting hard to watch, particularly when you watch other high-scoring games.

Whether he's the guy from a quality point of view or not... He's the future of this team due to that contract. And ultimately this team will live and die by the QB because that's the league we are in. 

Colin Cowherd defended Wentz saying every QB makes some bad throws, even veterans still do.  And that there are teams out there that have spent decades trying to find a long-term QB replacement.  He says guys like Wentz, Goff, Garoppolo and other young QBs are good QBs and teams just need to build around them.

 

Just now, NOTW said:

Colin Cowherd defended Wentz saying every QB makes some bad throws, even veterans still do.  And that there are teams out there that have spent decades trying to find a long-term QB replacement.  He says guys like Wentz, Goff, Garoppolo and other young QBs are good QBs and teams just need to build around them.

 

Which I think is absolutely fair. 

I don't think Wentz is going to be an elite QB but if you protect him and give him weapons then most the time he's going to be good. In fact probably really good. 

He's not a QB who's going to improve those around him I don't think... although to be fair to him he has with some of the PS guys he's been given. And I don't think he's going to be a top 5 QB but he can be in the top 15 and at times top 10 I think. 

On 10/28/2020 at 3:38 AM, NOTW said:

It's interesting how the narrative about Wentz has changed over the years from being smart and elite to being an erratic gunslinger who fights.

• 2016: he's the next Peyton Manning, pre-snap reads, will eventually call his own plays, incredibly smart.
• 2017: MVP candidate, throws accurate passes, makes exciting plays.  On his way to being elite.
• 2018: spotty play, recovering from injury, chip on his shoulder after watching Foles win, something off mentally since injury but recovering and better by end of the year.
• 2019: stretches of both poor and strong play.  Is he injury prone? Needs to complete a healthy season.  Is he scared of injury and hurting his strengths of extending plays? Strong finish to the season throwing to practice squad players.  
• Early 2020: he's playing horrible (with his starters), he's erratic, careless with the football, poor decision making (far from Peyton Manning comparisons a few years ago).  He needs to make plays on the run and use his legs more.
• Last few weeks: he's a fighter, a hero, sure he makes mistakes and isn't always very accurate but you're also going to get great plays.  He's a gunslinger. 

The narrative about being smart, accurate and making great pre-snap reads is gone.  Now the narrative is you get a gunslinger who will force throws and try to make a play and sometimes you get greatness and accuracy and sometimes you get careless decisions just deal with it.  

What narrative? The narrative here has been that he sucks, that he's the biggest problem the team has, that he'll never be a franchise QB, that the Eagles will never win with him, etc., etc., etc. 

 

 

5 hours ago, wyote said:

What narrative? The narrative here has been that he sucks, that he's the biggest problem the team has, that he'll never be a franchise QB, that the Eagles will never win with him, etc., etc., etc. 

 

 

He's talking about the narrative throughout Wentz career. Every year the narrative has been somewhat different. 

5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He's talking about the narrative throughout Wentz career. Every year the narrative has been somewhat different. 

Hype is a funny thing. Every starting QB goes through it. When you look around the NFL over the last couple decades, you see that most QBs capable of starting NFL games have a long career --- about 15-18 years. 

Usually, those first 5 years (sometimes more) are the worst years of the QB's career. Yeah, there will be tons of "promise" mixed in with head-scratchers and mistakes. The better QBs will keep getting better with every year of experience and by years 9-10 are probably giving you the best idea of how good they will be. 

9 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

At the end of the day, theres 25ish teams that would take Wentz tomorrow. There MIGHT be 5 who want Pederson. 

That I completely disagree with. Chiefs, Ravens, Texans, Packers, Bengals, Dolphins, Bills, Seahawks, Cardinals, Rams all are set at QB and would not take Wentz. That already has it down to 22 teams that might take him. I’d also argue that the Cowboys and Niners wouldn’t either. Brings it down to 20. 
 

Then you have to consider the Jets likely are in line for the #1 pick and will take a QB, so they are probably out too. 
 

So I’d say 19 teams would probably be willing to take him in a trade tomorrow in that scenario. Which is about what I’ve been saying. He’s pretty good but inconsistent and not great. Id rank him in the 11-15 range 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Hype is a funny thing. Every starting QB goes through it. When you look around the NFL over the last couple decades, you see that most QBs capable of starting NFL games have a long career --- about 15-18 years. 

Usually, those first 5 years (sometimes more) are the worst years of the QB's career. Yeah, there will be tons of "promise" mixed in with head-scratchers and mistakes. The better QBs will keep getting better with every year of experience and by years 9-10 are probably giving you the best idea of how good they will be. 

Yeah I mean it's definitely one of those positions where experience plays a big big factor. It isn't a position that relies as heavily on athleticism, unless you're a QB like Lamar and then you may have a shorter shelf life. It is a position that requires attention to detail, experience and having the mind to diagnose plays. Most of what a QB does comes above the shoulders i think. Sure they need the arm and that does decline over the years but as a general rule it's above the shoulders.

What I would like to see though is Wentz now starting to mature. Make better decisions. Throw it away if you have to, don't force so much, don't think you have to make a play on every down. He will always have that utter confidence in himself and will play on the edge but he does need to learn to make better decisions. 

13 hours ago, wyote said:

What narrative? The narrative here has been that he sucks, that he's the biggest problem the team has, that he'll never be a franchise QB, that the Eagles will never win with him, etc., etc., etc. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He's talking about the narrative throughout Wentz career. Every year the narrative has been somewhat different. 

I mean yeah I broke it down by year and then this year by portions of the season so far.  Showing how the general consensus about Wentz has changed.

He went from smart player who should be calling his own plays and is an elite QB to, well he's an erratic gunslinger and sometimes he's up and down but that's what you get.  And I like Wentz, it's just funny the changing ideas about him.

2 hours ago, nipples said:

That I completely disagree with. Chiefs, Ravens, Texans, Packers, Bengals, Dolphins, Bills, Seahawks, Cardinals, Rams all are set at QB and would not take Wentz. That already has it down to 22 teams that might take him. I’d also argue that the Cowboys and Niners wouldn’t either. Brings it down to 20. 
 

Then you have to consider the Jets likely are in line for the #1 pick and will take a QB, so they are probably out too. 
 

So I’d say 19 teams would probably be willing to take him in a trade tomorrow in that scenario. Which is about what I’ve been saying. He’s pretty good but inconsistent and not great. Id rank him in the 11-15 range 

Add the Chargers to that mix - there's no way they are moving on from Herbert. Plus the Bucs - Brady is immortal - will probably go another 10 years.

But yeah that's exactly where Wentz is. Really talented QB but not consistent enough to be in the top 10 right now.

5 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Add the Chargers to that mix - there's no way they are moving on from Herbert. Plus the Bucs - Brady is immortal - will probably go another 10 years.

But yeah that's exactly where Wentz is. Really talented QB but not consistent enough to be in the top 10 right now.

Ah yes, forgot about the Chargers and Herbert. 
 

And to be honest, some of the other cellar dwelling teams may not be interested in Wentz either right now, thinking they are shooting for a top 5 pick to grab either Lawrence or Fields. 
 

Anyway, this has kind of shifted to a discussion of where does Wentz rank, when the initial question was how many teams would trade for him tomorrow if he became available. Poster I was quoting said 25 teams would be happy to get him... I’m thinking it’s closer to 15. Middling teams without an answer at QB and likely not picking high enough for one of the top two next year would pretty much be the market for him. 

15 hours ago, wyote said:

The narrative about being smart, accurate and making great pre-snap reads is gone.  Now the narrative is you get a gunslinger who will force throws and try to make a play and sometimes you get greatness and accuracy and sometimes you get careless decisions just deal with it.  

I remember years ago that Carson said he patterned his game after Brett Favre and wasn't likely to change. Isn't the above a pretty fair description of Brett Favre's career? Biggest difference is that Favre couldn't be described as injury prone.

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

I mean yeah I broke it down by year and then this year by portions of the season so far.  Showing how the general consensus about Wentz has changed.

He went from smart player who should be calling his own plays and is an elite QB to, well he's an erratic gunslinger and sometimes he's up and down but that's what you get.  And I like Wentz, it's just funny the changing ideas about him.

Exactly. Year one we were all so positive and so excited. Year two was just WOW. And then it started to go a little down hill. 

Was that the injuries he suffered? Was that the experience he went through with his back up lifting the SB as the SB MVP? Was that seeing the same back up almost take the team back to an NFCCG the following year after he struggled and ultimately ended up on IR again?

Was it the injuries that have plagued this team? The coaching changes. The lack of having a QB coach to really push him? Maybe it is all of them.

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Exactly. Year one we were all so positive and so excited. Year two was just WOW. And then it started to go a little down hill. 

Was that the injuries he suffered? Was that the experience he went through with his back up lifting the SB as the SB MVP? Was that seeing the same back up almost take the team back to an NFCCG the following year after he struggled and ultimately ended up on IR again?

Was it the injuries that have plagued this team? The coaching changes. The lack of having a QB coach to really push him? Maybe it is all of them.

Maybe a bit of everything.  Consistency is a factor.

But when you see poor play on the field it doesn't mean you hate the guy or want him gone.  Some fans do, sure.  But I just call em like I see em.  Jason Peters was great, will be in the HOF.  But he's been declining and isn't playing well this year and is again injured.  Elliot was a clutch kicker, until he wasn't.  DeSean Jackson was a big time playmaker, but now he's unreliable.  Last year fans loved Matt Pryor, this year soured on him.

It's like watching a really good TV show that all of a sudden has a string of bad episodes.  You're still watching and you still like the show but the last few episodes were bad, then they start to pick up again.  The show is good, some episodes are good, some are great and some are bad.  Calling out the bad ones doesn't mean you hate the entire show. 

28 minutes ago, NOTW said:

But when you see poor play on the field it doesn't mean you hate the guy or want him gone.  Some fans do, sure.  But I just call em like I see em.  Jason Peters was great, will be in the HOF.  But he's been declining and isn't playing well this year and is again injured.  Elliot was a clutch kicker, until he wasn't.  DeSean Jackson was a big time playmaker, but now he's unreliable.  Last year fans loved Matt Pryor, this year soured on him.

Oh absolutely. Wentz was bad, really bad at the beginning of the year. Since then he's improved and he's made some big plays at crucial times. He's not been perfect, in fact at times he's still been poor for a lot of games or through periods of games. But he's improved. And let's hope that continues. 

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Oh absolutely. Wentz was bad, really bad at the beginning of the year. Since then he's improved and he's made some big plays at crucial times. He's not been perfect, in fact at times he's still been poor for a lot of games or through periods of games. But he's improved. And let's hope that continues. 

He's started to get back to that exciting player we know an love, especially getting out of the pocket and creating.  The coaches need to call things to his strengths.  I can live with some forced throws and some interceptions, that happens.  Some of the decisions have been downright dumb, but then there are some great throws.  You do want your QB playing with confidence and not be fearful or apprehensive, but there's a balance of also playing smart.  

Whatever combo of personnel and playcalling it takes, they have to figure out the ways to get the best out of Carson and he has to tone down the hero ball just a bit and settle into the offense.

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

He's started to get back to that exciting player we know an love, especially getting out of the pocket and creating.  The coaches need to call things to his strengths.  I can live with some forced throws and some interceptions, that happens.  Some of the decisions have been downright dumb, but then there are some great throws.  You do want your QB playing with confidence and not be fearful or apprehensive, but there's a balance of also playing smart.  

Whatever combo of personnel and playcalling it takes, they have to figure out the ways to get the best out of Carson and he has to tone down the hero ball just a bit and settle into the offense.

I can live with the interceptions if he's helping our offense overall. And I can live with them if they aren't just brain dead plays. The interception against NY was a bad bad play by Wentz. And he had another throw across his body to Fulgham which was really bad but he got away with it. He's just got to be smarter but overall yeah I agree he's fun to watch again now no doubt. 

On 10/23/2020 at 1:31 PM, Dutchman063 said:

Hard to get excited about wentz in that last drive against the Giants when they were in prevent defense, i still see a very sloppy quarterback who makes really bad decisions during regular gameplay, we were lucky to get out of there against a very bad giants team and wentz still does not impress me

For the first time since he was a rook I now feel the same way. 

I try to joke about it when I say 'I'm at a loss for adjectives.' but really, I'm just speechless.

His performance now is 'Crash & Burn' worse than 2017.  It changes everything.

They put on a brave face but one can only wonder what's  really  in the hearts & minds of his team-mates.

Maybe some variation of this:                

8 hours ago, NOTW said:

Maybe a bit of everything.  Consistency is a factor.

But when you see poor play on the field it doesn't mean you hate the guy or want him gone.  Some fans do, sure.  But I just call em like I see em.  Jason Peters was great, will be in the HOF.  But he's been declining and isn't playing well this year and is again injured.  Elliot was a clutch kicker, until he wasn't.  DeSean Jackson was a big time playmaker, but now he's unreliable.  Last year fans loved Matt Pryor, this year soured on him.

It's like watching a really good TV show that all of a sudden has a string of bad episodes.  You're still watching and you still like the show but the last few episodes were bad, then they start to pick up again.  The show is good, some episodes are good, some are great and some are bad.  Calling out the bad ones doesn't mean you hate the entire show. 

So you're saying Wentz is the QB version of Game of Thrones? Oof that's harsh dude, you didn't have to go there. 😀

This is the overall issue with Carson. You either get really good or really bad. There isn’t enough happy mediums. More consistent play would end the frustrations most people have about him. I don’t need to see Carson be the "put the team on his back" guy to try and win if he doesn’t t run the offense into the ground for two quarters.

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

This is the overall issue with Carson. You either get really good or really bad. There isn’t enough happy mediums. More consistent play would end the frustrations most people have about him. I don’t need to see Carson be the "put the team on his back" guy to try and win if he doesn’t t run the offense into the ground for two quarters.

I'm guessing that screenshot is from week one this year?

Either way, I agree with you. I think he needs to find that balance between trying to make things happen but also being smart. If there's nothing there then take a sack or get down or throw it away. Don't try to make a throw with guys draped all over you because that's not going to end well most the time. Just be a little smarter. 

8 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'm guessing that screenshot is from week one this year?

Either way, I agree with you. I think he needs to find that balance between trying to make things happen but also being smart. If there's nothing there then take a sack or get down or throw it away. Don't try to make a throw with guys draped all over you because that's not going to end well most the time. Just be a little smarter. 

Exactly. Carson needs to be better. He needs to be better at protecting himself and making decisions on the field. It’s bad enough his line is struggling right now, so no reason to make things worse by holding the ball too long. It just leads to more cumulative hits, and for a guy who has spent time out of games in every one of his NFL seasons, the last thing he needs is unnecessary hits. He stares guys down cause he’s always looking for that big play. Sometimes you need to let the big one go and just take what the defense gives you. Yeah it’s fun to watch Carson throw a pass when he’s about to get sacked and his knees are inches from the ground, but I’ll take a nice sustained drive and a healthy Carson over all of that stuff.