1 hour ago, stinkfist said:

I haven't responded to this because well, taking a stance here is pretty black and white. I'm at the point where I'm getting close to being one or the other. 

1. The coaching staff and organization has to take an enormous amount of blame. In what world do you go up against an historically bad run defense, have a 20-yard run on the first play from scrimmage and then abandon the run? On top of that, why do you do it with a guy at LT who is old and broken down and a guy at RT who can't play the position because he's not just learning LT, he's learning how to play f'ing football. Right there, Doug Pederson, the entire offensive staff and everyone up to Jeffrey Lurie are morons. How is this allowed to happen? Moving on...You then drop back and see a murder sack. OK, let's run again. That's any coaching level. No, Doug passes. And I'm ready to be done. Turnover. 

The playcalling is horrible and obviously, Carson Wentz is being enabled to do some things I'm going to get to. 

2. Carson Wentz is not a good QB right now. In fact, he's just plain bad. Sure, he is an athlete that can buy time and help the Eagles win with his feet. His "hero ball" is what "keeps them in games". His hero ball is what puts them in the holes that he has to dig them out of. Carson Wentz is not digging the Eagles out of holes the defense puts them in, or Miles Sanders' fumbling, or just a bad day. Carson Wentz is cleaning up after Carson Wentz. I have to be honest, I'd be tired of him if I were on that team. No accountability. None. 

And he's a captain. 

I'd have benched him in the Dallas game. 4 turnovers is a teachable moment. "Carson, this cannot continue." Everyone, including Carson, is creating this monster. 

I do not want to lose a guy who showed a ton of promise, but at this point he looks to be lost. I am not confident in him going forward. 

Well put.  I agree the coaches are putting him in bad position and calling plays poorly, and Carson's hero ball is both the cause and remedy of some problems on the field.  

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Winning the division is a goal the team set before the season began. 

Yeah, I think this is the right sentiment.  It should always be the goal of the team.  

2 hours ago, stinkfist said:

I do not want to lose a guy who showed a ton of promise, but at this point he looks to be lost. I am not confident in him going forward. 

^^ THIS is exactly how I feel.  Carson has regressed badly. Based on how long he hangs onto the ball, another major injury feels inevitable and it makes me sad to see.  If we could find a trade partner, I would be very motivated to move him.

 

I am about 70 percent off the Wentz Wagon, but I'm waiting to see what he does after the bye with healthier weapons, which will lead to better playcalling from Doug.

If we're having this discussion at the end of the season with a moderately healthy team and Wentz continues to lead the league in turnovers then it's time to move on.

1 hour ago, Madriver said:

I am about 70 percent off the Wentz Wagon, but I'm waiting to see what he does after the bye with healthier weapons, which will lead to better playcalling from Doug.

If we're having this discussion at the end of the season with a moderately healthy team and Wentz continues to lead the league in turnovers then it's time to move on.

He got Goedert and Reagor back and had Fulgham who is now the top receiver, and Ward.  He was missing Ertz, who has had a bad year anyway and Jackson who has made a few plays when healthy but hasn't been relied on.

I can see arguing for Lane Johnson and Miles Sanders being factors, but he had plenty of playmakers available.  The playmakers were not the reason for forcing terrible throws that were intercepted or 2 fumbles lost.

He also played terrible in the first few games of they year when he had all or most of the starters so these excuses need to die.  

29 minutes ago, NOTW said:

He got Goedert and Reagor back and had Fulgham who is now the top receiver, and Ward.  He was missing Ertz, who has had a bad year anyway and Jackson who has made a few plays when healthy but hasn't been relied on.

I can see arguing for Lane Johnson and Miles Sanders being factors, but he had plenty of playmakers available.  The playmakers were not the reason for forcing terrible throws that were intercepted or 2 fumbles lost.

He also played terrible in the first few games of they year when he had all or most of the starters so these excuses need to die.  

I don't consider Boston Scott a playmaker. He is a decent back. We have no one who can pound it up the middle. Reagor is still a rookie and two of the picks in the last game were on another rookie WR not running far enough. Fulgham is great but not quite the go-to guy just yet.

Plus, we never had Jeffrey, who, aside from Sanders, is the biggest difference maker on the team, nor did we have a stable OL from one week to the next.

He nearly beat the Ravens with dreck so I'd like to see what he does with most of the pieces in place. That said, I do not think Wentz is a long term answer for this team because he simply will not improve his own skillset. I think we will have to bite the bullet until 2022 when we can trade or release him without a super painful cap hit.

 

18 minutes ago, Madriver said:

I don't consider Boston Scott a playmaker. He is a decent back. We have no one who can pound it up the middle. Reagor is still a rookie and two of the picks in the last game were on another rookie WR not running far enough. Fulgham is great but not quite the go-to guy just yet.

Plus, we never had Jeffrey, who, aside from Sanders, is the biggest difference maker on the team, nor did we have a stable OL from one week to the next.

He nearly beat the Ravens with dreck so I'd like to see what he does with most of the pieces in place. That said, I do not think Wentz is a long term answer for this team because he simply will not improve his own skillset. I think we will have to bite the bullet until 2022 when we can trade or release him without a super painful cap hit.

 

Boston Scott actually played well...then the coaches went away from the run too much.  Clement even had a nice run.

Everyone is on the Fulgham hype train and believe he's a legit player, so I disagree with dismissing him as a "go-to."  He clearly has been a go-to. 

LOL at Jeffrey, you lost me when you said he's the biggest playmaker apart from Sanders.  That's a joke.  Even when he was at his best, Ertz has been the top playmaker over Jeffrey.  He hasn't played in a year and he's not some huge difference maker.  Fulgham and Ward are out there making plays, Jeffrey won't be better than what Fulgham is doing out there this season.  

The future is now.  Jeffrey and Jackson are done.  Ertz was struggling and now hurt.  Goedert has been starting TE quality so Wentz has him plus young playmakers at receiver that are good enough to not be blaming Wentz' poor decision making on them.

The turnovers:

1st fumble - totally inexcusable, he had the deer in the headlights look, WTF were you thinking Carson???

2nd fumble - took forever for Doug to decide to go for it on 4th down, gets the play in late and they have to hurry to the line just to get the play off in time, no chance for them to even look at the defense, can't diagnose the blitz, pick it up or adjust the play. That's totally on Doug, he should have called a TO there. This is why I hate having him as the play caller!

1st interception - It's first down, Reagor is double covered, you gotta throw that out of bounds. Again Carson WTF are you thinking???

2nd interception - Hightower had single coverage and was winning, this was the correct read and just a bad throw by Wentz. If he throws that flatter and towards the post it's a TD but he put too much air under it and the wind effected it IMO. This one I can live with because it was a good decision just poor execution. 

Obviously Carson needs to look in the mirror and fix what he can, stop trying to do too much and take care of the ball better.

 

IMO Doug is a huge part of the problem on offense and needs to shoulder some of the responsibility here too. His play calling and decisions are not exactly helping the team either. Why are you going for it on 4th down at midfield against a team you can beat being conservative? Realize the team you are fielding is full of inexperienced players, don't be putting them in situations like that second fumble play. Get the damn play in sooner or call a TO when you see them having to rush it there. You got 3 backups on the oline and 3 rookies at WR!

 

10 hours ago, NOTW said:

Why are those the only 2 options?

Why can't a guy that was hyped as so smart and on his way to being elite, figure out to protect the ball better and make smarter plays?

Clearly, they aren't the only two options, but I believe they are the two extremes.

I believe this year, Wentz got off to a bad start and the team struggled. Injuries piled up. The offensive line is different almost every week. His favorite target is having a down year. Honestly, I don't know what the coaches are telling him at this point. Wentz hasn't given up trying to compete or trying to win games. The desire is there, the heart is there. It seems, however, that he's abandoned all discipline. Maybe because of the low expectations people have for this team at this point, he feels he has nothing to lose by taking chances. I've watched a lot of football over the years and most QBs when they are pressured as much as Wentz has been this year, do not perform as well as they otherwise would. Now, I'm glad he's staying "aggressive" through this struggle. I would be more worried if he turned into the opposite extreme and didn't even try to make plays. 

On 11/3/2020 at 11:47 AM, Madriver said:

I don't consider Boston Scott a playmaker. He is a decent back. We have no one who can pound it up the middle. Reagor is still a rookie and two of the picks in the last game were on another rookie WR not running far enough. Fulgham is great but not quite the go-to guy just yet.

Plus, we never had Jeffrey, who, aside from Sanders, is the biggest difference maker on the team, nor did we have a stable OL from one week to the next.

He nearly beat the Ravens with dreck so I'd like to see what he does with most of the pieces in place. That said, I do not think Wentz is a long term answer for this team because he simply will not improve his own skillset. I think we will have to bite the bullet until 2022 when we can trade or release him without a super painful cap hit.

 

Wait, what?? Fulgham has shown in every game thus far that he catches everything thrown his way....I think he may have missed, what? All of ONE pass, which was deflected and a good play by the DB....I tend to think Fulgham is THE GO TO GUY right now.....

On 11/3/2020 at 12:47 PM, Madriver said:

I don't consider Boston Scott a playmaker. He is a decent back. We have no one who can pound it up the middle. Reagor is still a rookie and two of the picks in the last game were on another rookie WR not running far enough. Fulgham is great but not quite the go-to guy just yet.

Plus, we never had Jeffrey, who, aside from Sanders, is the biggest difference maker on the team, nor did we have a stable OL from one week to the next.

He nearly beat the Ravens with dreck so I'd like to see what he does with most of the pieces in place. That said, I do not think Wentz is a long term answer for this team because he simply will not improve his own skillset. I think we will have to bite the bullet until 2022 when we can trade or release him without a super painful cap hit.

 

Curious, at what point do you consider Fulgham the "go-to guy” if not now? He’s balled out in every game he’s played. He’s put up 70+ yards in every game except his first one. He’s scored a TD in every game but one. Catches the ball with his hands, runs good routes, plays aggressive. I know some are hesitant because he started on the PS, but if he was a first round pick putting up these types of performances everyone would be all in on him. His per game stats would put him at like 1400 yards over the course of 16 games. I’m convinced that he’s the real deal. 

1 hour ago, GeorgeM37 said:

Wait, what?? Fulgham has shown in every game thus far that he catches everything thrown his way....I think he may have missed, what? All of ONE pass, which was deflected and a good play by the DB....I tend to think Fulgham is THE GO TO GUY right now.....

 

1 hour ago, nipples said:

Curious, at what point do you consider Fulgham the "go-to guy” if not now? He’s balled out in every game he’s played. He’s put up 70+ yards in every game except his first one. He’s scored a TD in every game but one. Catches the ball with his hands, runs good routes, plays aggressive. I know some are hesitant because he started on the PS, but if he was a first round pick putting up these types of performances everyone would be all in on him. His per game stats would put him at like 1400 yards over the course of 16 games. I’m convinced that he’s the real deal. 

I think he's the go-to guy like Ward was the go-to guy in the last 2-3 games last season. Promotion by attrition.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is balling, for sure. Especially against top drawer competition like the Steelers and Ravens. THIS season.

I guess part of me doesn't trust this team's offensive brain trust and how they utilize guys. Go to guy a few weeks and then vanishes. And btw, we HAVEN'T gone 16 games yet. Whereas when a healthy Jeffrey or Djax takes the field we know what we're getting. Proven commodity. I understand that their playing days are likely over, but we've had a lot of one game, half season, one season wonders here.

Remember last season how Boston Scott was the second coming after stepping in for a few games? In the same two games from this season I mentioned above, this guy had a total of 7 yards. *7* 

As a team we tend to waste good talent instead of developing good talent. Hell, Wentz is the poster child for that.

People who become starting NFL QBs, do so because they have talent. Carson has talent. QB's who either become backups or starters on bad teams, do so because they're not consistent enough to win more than some games. Playoffs or not, Carson is in the latter category right now. I think Carson, not unlike Nick Foles, will catch lightening in a bottle maybe a couple times in his career. I'm not tying my franchise to him.

Benching is the last chance to motivate Wentz. Carson is no longer immersed in football. Wife, kid, $40M the eagles can't touch, he's already won his big game. Soon the team will have to move on.

 

1 hour ago, macgregor said:

 I'm not tying my franchise to him.

What QB are you tying your franchise to?

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

What QB are you tying your franchise to?

I'll play Hurts for a game if that's what you mean. See how he looks. If he looks worse than Wentz, I'll be happy to put Wentz back in. At this point I really don't see how he can do worse. The team has done it before. 

20 minutes ago, macgregor said:

I'll play Hurts for a game if that's what you mean. See how he looks. If he looks worse than Wentz, I'll be happy to put Wentz back in. At this point I really don't see how he can do worse. The team has done it before. 

We did it with when Andy Reid benched McNabb after the first half of the Ravens game in 2008 and started Kevin Kolb in the 2nd half, which lit a fire under McNabb and saved the season. Eagles went all the way to the NFC Championship Game that year. That same year we also tied with the Bengals because McNabb didn't know overtime games could end in a tie.

We already got the Bengals tie game out of the way this year, now let's bench Wentz after a bad half and see if he responds with an improvement in performance down the road.

On 11/6/2020 at 8:36 PM, GeorgeM37 said:

Wait, what?? Fulgham has shown in every game thus far that he catches everything thrown his way....I think he may have missed, what? All of ONE pass, which was deflected and a good play by the DB....I tend to think Fulgham is THE GO TO GUY right now.....

 

On 11/6/2020 at 10:25 PM, Madriver said:

 

I think he's the go-to guy like Ward was the go-to guy in the last 2-3 games last season. Promotion by attrition.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is balling, for sure. Especially against top drawer competition like the Steelers and Ravens. THIS season.

I guess part of me doesn't trust this team's offensive brain trust and how they utilize guys. Go to guy a few weeks and then vanishes. And btw, we HAVEN'T gone 16 games yet. Whereas when a healthy Jeffrey or Djax takes the field we know what we're getting. Proven commodity. I understand that their playing days are likely over, but we've had a lot of one game, half season, one season wonders here.

Remember last season how Boston Scott was the second coming after stepping in for a few games? In the same two games from this season I mentioned above, this guy had a total of 7 yards. *7* 

As a team we tend to waste good talent instead of developing good talent. Hell, Wentz is the poster child for that.

 

On 11/6/2020 at 10:25 PM, Madriver said:

 

I think he's the go-to guy like Ward was the go-to guy in the last 2-3 games last season. Promotion by attrition.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is balling, for sure. Especially against top drawer competition like the Steelers and Ravens. THIS season.

I guess part of me doesn't trust this team's offensive brain trust and how they utilize guys. Go to guy a few weeks and then vanishes. And btw, we HAVEN'T gone 16 games yet. Whereas when a healthy Jeffrey or Djax takes the field we know what we're getting. Proven commodity. I understand that their playing days are likely over, but we've had a lot of one game, half season, one season wonders here.

Remember last season how Boston Scott was the second coming after stepping in for a few games? In the same two games from this season I mentioned above, this guy had a total of 7 yards. *7* 

As a team we tend to waste good talent instead of developing good talent. Hell, Wentz is the poster child for that.

Fulgham looks like a legit number 1. Just passes the eye test. He’s doing it against good teams and good corners as well. Ward and Scott did well at the end of the last year, but it was against poor teams in the East and they weren’t putting up the kind of numbers Fulgham is.

He’s legit.

On 11/3/2020 at 12:47 PM, Madriver said:

We have no one who can pound it up the middle. 

Hopefully dumbarse will fix this during the offseason, a big strong runner is what you need when your QB is in a funk.

Trade Wentz to Dallas for Garrett Gilbert.

 

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

Trade Wentz to Dallas for Garrett Gilbert.

 

You’re just talking crazy now. It’s a terrible idea. 
 

 

 

 

Dallas would never go for that. 
 

I had great fun watching all these young QB's balling out this morning so if Wentz keeps on sucking (obviously I hope he doesnt but there's not a lot to be confident in at the moment), the pressure will become intense to give Hurts a run.

Not saying we should or shouldn't but the QB position is evolving & we wont know what we've got in Hurts until we get him out there, I'm also not saying he's a Tua or Murray or Herbert (even Luton looks like he's got something) but damn they are good to watch.

34 minutes ago, roadagain65 said:

I had great fun watching all these young QB's balling out this morning so if Wentz keeps on sucking (obviously I hope he doesnt but there's not a lot to be confident in at the moment), the pressure will become intense to give Hurts a run.

Not saying we should or shouldn't but the QB position is evolving & we wont know what we've got in Hurts until we get him out there, I'm also not saying he's a Tua or Murray or Herbert (even Luton looks like he's got something) but damn they are good to watch.

The only reason the QB position is "evolving" is because offensive philosophy has dictated defensive philosophy and smart coaches are attacking the weaknesses of the new defenses. It's a fad that will only succeed as long as a majority of the offenses aren't doing the same thing. Up through the early '90s, most teams had a base offense with 2 WRs, 1 TE, a HB and a FB. Defenses had bigger DEs that weren't as easy to push around vs the run and LBs that were full-sized,  intelligent and great tacklers. Then came the passing fancy era where FBs were all but phased out of the game and replaced with an extra WR. TEs were asked to be pass catchers more than blockers. If you had a HB that wasn't particularly competent as a receiver, then you brought in a 3rd down back. Defenses had to start getting smaller, faster players. Coverage ability was coveted over tackling ability. LBs became edge rushers and Safeties became LBs. Now the average option QB (which has always been big in college FB) can come into the NFL and if put in a system exploiting today's defenses can look very good. Once half (or more) of the NFL turns to this fad, defenses will go back to what worked before. I mean, option QBs were always a dime a dozen and never worked in the NFL vs old-school defenses. It works currently because today's dumb, athletic edge rushers lack discipline and lose contain and the undersized hybrid LBs can't shed blocks or make tackles. 

It seems like traditional QBs are being phased out, but in reality, coaches are just exploiting the latest defensive fad. 

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

It seems like traditional QBs are being phased out, but in reality, coaches are just exploiting the latest defensive fad. 

That is true but given all teams are going a similar way the traditional QB may be phased out entirely until things come back around. I mean young kids will model themselves on the likes of Jackson, Murray and Tua rather than Manning's and Brady's.

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

That is true but given all teams are going a similar way the traditional QB may be phased out entirely until things come back around. I mean young kids will model themselves on the likes of Jackson, Murray and Tua rather than Manning's and Brady's.

I'm not sure all teams are going that way, Mahomes was prized for his arms ability to propel a football accurately at 60mph, Burrow and Herbert are both predominantly straight up pocket passers and have both been hugely impressive as rookies, Josh Allen is a pocket guy who's starting to find his feet, The Panthers dumped Cam to go with Teddy Bridgewater who's a pocket guy, and next year Trevor Lawrence is a tall guy with an arm who can run if the situation demands but is unlikely to beat you with his legs and he's almost definitely a top 5 pick. 

People have been predicting the era of the dual threat guy for years and yet the pro scouts still look for height and arm strength way above rushing numbers and scrambling ability, it's why below average guys like Trubisky, Darnold and Brandon Weeden get picked ahead of Deshaun Watson, Lamarr Jackson and Russell Wilson. To be clear those scouts were as wrong as wrong could be, but overall history says if you land a top end pocket passer,  you'll have more consistent success than having a top end dual threat.

21 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

 I mean young kids will model themselves on the likes of Jackson, Murray and Tua rather than Manning's and Brady's.

You can't model innate ability.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/carson-wentz-fearless-response-asked-172739954.html
 

To paraphrase the story, Carson basically said it’s a fine line between giving up on a play and making a big play. It’s a line he will never fully be able to grasp his whole career and the Eagles (as long as he’s their quarterback) will just have to suck it up and deal with it. So stop expecting coaches to change this dude. He is who he is and sometimes you will get the awe inspiring play and other times you will get a dumb turnover or injury.