4 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

It does follow the timeline of Groh being fired. Doug came out and emphatically said Groh is coming back, 24hrs later he was fired. So it's clear Doug was not the one who wanted him out.

In all Lurie's years we've never seen anything to indicate he won't take phone calls from his head coach, but will take phone calls from the QB.  The narrative is very extreme.

I can buy that Lurie has gotten more comfortable pressuring decisions such as you need to make a change at offensive coaching, or we need to invest in certain positions but this seems extreme.

15 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

I dont know......did he?  

Iunno, why not? Youd think a coach does his best to tailor the offense toward the ball distributor which helps favor his strengths over weakness. 

15 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

I dont know......did he?  

Iunno, why not? Youd think a coach does his best to tailor the offense toward the ball distributor which helps favor his strengths over weakness. 

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

This narrative about Lurie telling Doug to change offensive coaches and now this idea that Lurie favors Carson and Doug isn't allowed to coach him?

We've always known Lurie as a hands-off owner.  Do people believe that's changed and he's now interfering?  

Lurie stopped being hands off the moment he fired Chip. Next thing you know it was "emotional intelligence” and "open your heart” and "collaborative efforts.” He was an intricate part in the drafting of Carson Wentz. He’s been involved hands on for a while now. 

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

In all Lurie's years we've never seen anything to indicate he won't take phone calls from his head coach, but will take phone calls from the QB.  The narrative is very extreme.

I can buy that Lurie has gotten more comfortable pressuring decisions such as you need to make a change at offensive coaching, or we need to invest in certain positions but this seems extreme.

It doesn't have to be that extreme, but there's definitely smoke to be found here.

9 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

It doesn't have to be that extreme, but there's definitely smoke to be found here.

There’s been smoke for a few years now, but a lot of us just dismissed the claims, ripped the people who made them and flat out refused to believe. 

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

Watching Doug's PC, he's excusing COVID, limited training camp, new receivers...a reporter asked why every team faced those same challenges so why can't a veteran QB and veteran coaches can't prepare and perform like the other teams...he also said he asks Carson what plays he wants to run, what do you want to do (and that he did that for Foles as well) in trying to say he caters his offense to the QB.

Just looking at his eyes and body language, he's frustrated with Carson but rightfully won't throw him under the bus.  The organization has to be upset their investment isn't playing well.

Fair enough too from Doug, wentz the last 6 quarters has been pretty bad / downright awful. The extreme regression from where he ended last year carrying an offense without any outside weapons is dumbfounding. 

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I forgot nothing, but you’re ignoring the failures of Foles. That’s just as bad as the people who ignore the failures of Wentz. All three times Nick was given the keys to the car he lost the car that same year. 

Yep, we should all be thankful to foles forever. The dude pitched the greatest two game stretch ever by a backup QB in the two most important games he’ll ever play and we have a SB to show as a result of it. 

But it’s also proven multiple times over now that time and time again, the bad Foles will show up and the bad Foles is very bad (hell even the game against ATL, we only got through because of the D). That (and injuries) is the reason he can’t hold down a staring job, keeps getting benched or can’t beat out bad QBs like Minshew, keenum and Trubisky (in a Andy / Doug system no less). Consistency has always evaded him - good Foles looks like Manning and bad Foles looks like he doesn’t belong In the NFL.
 

That was the whole point of Wentz being superior - his highs are also MVP level but the lows arent supposed to be that low and the lows are a whole lot less frequent. Thats what makes the last 6 quarters so frustrating. Wentz is currently playing down to that level that we shouldn’t be seeing. Serious serious regression

4 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Yep, we should all be thankful to foles forever. The dude pitched the greatest two game stretch ever by a backup QB in the two most important games he’ll ever play and we have a SB to show as a result of it. 

But it’s also proven multiple times over now that time and time again, the bad Foles will show up and the bad Foles is very bad (hell even the game against ATL, we only got through because of the D). That (and injuries) is the reason he can’t hold down a staring job, keeps getting benched or can’t beat out bad QBs like Minshew, keenum and Trubisky (in a Andy / Doug system no less). Consistency has always evaded him - good Foles looks like Manning and bad Foles looks like he doesn’t belong In the NFL.
 

That was the whole point of Wentz being superior - his highs are also MVP level but the lows arent supposed to be that low and the lows are a whole lot less frequent. Thats what makes the last 6 quarters so frustrating. Wentz is currently playing down to that level that we shouldn’t be seeing. Serious serious regression

I can handle the Wentz clunkers and can accept he isn't elite. Not sure where that puts him then? Is he better then McNabb or as good? Can we build around that? I think we can but, is the front office willing to accept and build around that? 

On 9/21/2020 at 1:30 PM, EaglesfanfromND said:

But Wentz is a product of the QB factory......

The QB factory is shut down this year. Bad mechanics.

Carson Wentz has completed 58.8 pct of his passes this season

@NextGenStats says he should have completed 67.7 pct of his throws, per their comp pct over expectation (CPOE) model

His -8.8 CPOE is 2nd worst in the NFL this season behind WAS Dwayne Haskins (min 30 pass attempts)

Wentz has completed 82.2 pct of his "easy” throws (passes with a 75+ pct expected chance of completion)

He was expected to complete 85.9 pct of those, giving him a -3.7 CPOE on "layups”

(Note: @KingJames completed 65.1 pct of FGs inside of 10 ft in the 2019-20 regular season)

But Wentz has struggled much more on "medium” and "difficult” throws this season, with a -17.6 & -13.0 CPOE respectively.

He’s hit most of the "layups” that were expected, but has struggled on the tougher throws

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I can handle the Wentz clunkers and can accept he isn't elite. Not sure where that puts him then? Is he better then McNabb or as good? Can we build around that? I think we can but, is the front office willing to accept and build around that? 

The question at that point is only can this guy win you a Super Bowl? If the answer is yes then you stick with him, but if it’s no then it’s best to move on. 

5 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I’m a bit skeptical, and I’ve even gone a few rounds with @EazyEaglez over this very issue, but if I’m wrong, and Lurie isn’t allowing Doug full autonomy over his staff, it would really make me wonder about Lurie. Even if someone believes he ultimately did the right thing, it’s still indicative that Lurie doesn’t have full trust in Doug, in which case, why is he here? Also, it’s going to break down any trust Doug has and if/when the time comes to replace Doug, what respectable coach would take the job once word gets out? You would only get the next Doug Pederson, someone no one else is beating down the door to get. 
 

I really don’t see a repeat of all things going right the way they did in 2017. 

In Lurie’s defense I do think the Chip Kelly situation got so out of hand that he felt he had no other choice but to intervene. It’s his team and though I don’t agree with any idea of the owner meddling he does have the right to do so. 

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

In Lurie’s defense I do think the Chip Kelly situation got so out of hand that he felt he had no other choice but to intervene. It’s his team and though I don’t agree with any idea of the owner meddling he does have the right to do so. 

Yeah, for sure he does, but one thing I've always respected about Lurie, is he always was the type to hire people for a job, then trusted them to do so, and then got involved when it was time to make a change. If Lurie can't give a coach autonomy over his staff, then like I said, we're never getting a respectable coach again.

https://www.pff.com/news/pff-scouting-report-carson-wentz-qb-north-dakota-state

>> "Finished with the ninth-overall grade in the draft class"

"Accuracy percentage of 38.5 percent on deep (20+ yard) passes ranked 29th in the draft class. Accuracy percentage of 57.1 percent when pressured tied for 27th in the draft class."

"Can pick up yards on the ground, but not sure how much his future team will want him to do so at the next level"

 "Shows touch, but it’s often a much slower throwing motion and his accuracy is hit or miss"

"Slow to process in the passing game. Will be late on short and intermediate throws, but arm strength bails him out. Will this still work at the next level?"

"Rarely got to a third read in his progression, even when running common, staple passing concepts. Their boot play had three options and Wentz would regularly miss the third receiver, even when the first two receivers were covered"

"Accuracy at 21-30 yard range was well below average, his adjusted completion percentage of 43.5 percent ranked 23rd in the draft class."

"There’s a lot to like about Wentz, but still so many question marks. The size and big arm stand out, and it’s not just aesthetics – his velocity is an asset at the short and intermediate range at the next level. The concern is whether or not the big arm loses accuracy beyond 20 yards to be effective. He’ll flash some touch on the deep ball, but it’s far too inconsistent at this point. His lack of timing in the passing game is a major concern, but if he can iron it out, the upside is immense. " <<

This pretty much reads like a current analysis . . . not a pre-draft scouting report.

               YIKES. 

11 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The question at that point is only can this guy win you a Super Bowl? If the answer is yes then you stick with him, but if it’s no then it’s best to move on. 

I'm not sure myself I still think Wentz offers more then McNabb so I still lean towards yes he can and build around that. I'm ok with being wrong as well though

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I can handle the Wentz clunkers and can accept he isn't elite. Not sure where that puts him then? Is he better then McNabb or as good? Can we build around that? I think we can but, is the front office willing to accept and build around that? 

We were hoping he was better than Donovan.  Unfortunately that's not the case.

Carson Wentz is a poor man's Donovan McNabb.

15 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Yeah, for sure he does, but one thing I've always respected about Lurie, is he always was the type to hire people for a job, then trusted them to do so, and then got involved when it was time to make a change. If Lurie can't give a coach autonomy over his staff, then like I said, we're never getting a respectable coach again.

It’s only a matter of time before Doug would want more power. In some ways you could say he’s earned it, because despite what’s been given him he’s still made the playoffs. Sadly though if there’s truly a power struggle in the organization right now I believe Doug is the odd man out. I think that many people in the building today think the Eagles win in spite of Doug and not because of him. 

4 hours ago, EagleMatt said:

Iunno, why not? Youd think a coach does his best to tailor the offense toward the ball distributor which helps favor his strengths over weakness. 

You'd think that but it doesnt always happen.

15 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I'm not sure myself I still think Wentz offers more then McNabb so I still lean towards yes he can and build around that. I'm ok with being wrong as well though

It’s a difficult debate to have right now. Donovan did some special things in his career, but when his time was up it was up. Wentz showed a really strong high in 2017 but he’s also been marred with injuries and inconsistent play. Carson needs to put it together and keep it there. He has the potential to be one of the greatest. Potential means nothing if he can’t fulfill it.

6 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

We were hoping he was better than Donovan.  Unfortunately that's not the case.

Carson Wentz is a poor man's Donovan McNabb.

I don't think it's that bad. Carson has already surpassed McNabb numbers

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I can handle the Wentz clunkers and can accept he isn't elite. Not sure where that puts him then? Is he better then McNabb or as good? Can we build around that? I think we can but, is the front office willing to accept and build around that? 

I would say that if these Wentz clunkers the last two games become common, then he shouldn’t be getting paid what he is and taking up as much of the cap as he is. Franchise QB money takes away from other parts of the team and should be for QBs who have the highs that Wentz is capable of but are consistently good, and whose floor games make it challenging but you still keep you in them.

Btw, I’m a Wentz guy - the job he did at the end of last year was nothing short of spectacular. He’s got better weapons now but his play hasn’t even been half as good. It’s concerning. Hopefully this is just a little funk he quickly works out of.

18 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I don't think it's that bad. Carson has already surpassed McNabb numbers

Different eras - inflated numbers all around these days.

Wentz has definitely shown he is capable of playing at a level higher than McNabb (2017, back end of last year) but McNabb is majorly under appreciated around here.

Jury is still out but I think Wentz has a better career when it’s all said and done. I wouldn’t have had any doubt about this before this season. Maybe I’m overreacted to a horrible 2 game stretch by our franchise QB?

30 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s a difficult debate to have right now. Donovan did some special things in his career, but when his time was up it was up. Wentz showed a really strong high in 2017 but he’s also been marred with injuries and inconsistent play. Carson needs to put it together and keep it there. He has the potential to be one of the greatest. Potential means nothing if he can’t fulfill it.

Agreed

4 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Different eras - inflated numbers all around these days.

Wentz has definitely shown he is capable of playing at a level higher than McNabb (2017, back end of last year) but McNabb is majorly under appreciated around here.

Jury is still out but I think Wentz has a better career when it’s all said and done. I wouldn’t have had any doubt about this before this season. Maybe I’m overreacted to a horrible 2 game stretch by our franchise QB?

Who knows I'm not really proclaiming anything it's tough right now