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The Good, the Bad and the Ugly: week 1 at Washington


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Doug suffers from the same thing Andy suffered from here.  He believes in the system so strongly, he can't get away from it when it's not working.  He's got to go back to the whiteboard and start drawing up something new because forcing it isn't the trick.  Not with this lineup anyway. 

It's hard for me to get too down on Wentz.  On the one hand he has to know sometimes it's better to dump the ball and live to fight another down.  But on the other, he's got titanium stones on him to stand behind a decimated offensive line and try to make a play.  Otherwise you get guys like Sam Darnold that get smacked around, their nerves get shot and they melt down.  I'd much rather have the former.

At this point I don't know that they can bring Ertz back.  They're clearly far apart on numbers.  Doesn't sound like the conversation's going well.  We're going to be up against the cap.  Probably better to start getting those draft picks stocked up, shed as many of those big contracts as you can, and prepare for the Goedert extension. 

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3 hours ago, Wentz 2 Ertz said:

The NFL season is a marathon not a sprint but our schedule is tough for sure.    Even if Doug can scrounge out a win against the Rams and Bengals the next two weeks, we still have to play the 9ers, Steelers, and Ravens back to back to back.  2-4 or 3-3 is a very real possibility.

1-5 is a distinct possibility

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35 minutes ago, weko said:

1-5 is a distinct possibility

I will be fine with that and here's hoping the season would be cut short after that and we will get a high draft pick................... For Howie to screw up

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3 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think kelce and kittle are better overall players than ertz. They are both better blockers.

Agree.

I think ertz is a better route runner than both.

My knock on Ertz has always been his lack of YAC. He almost always goes down on 1st contact.

heading into the season, ertz imo was the 3rd best tight end in the league.  If we compare the stats of kelce, kittle and ertz the last 2 seasons it becomes more noticeable that ertz isn’t in the same tier as those two.  the touchdowns are close but with the roughly the same amount of receptions as kelce he’s far less dynamic with them. And he’s definitely not nearly as good of a blocker. I think he’s top 5 tight end and deserves top 5 tight end money But he’s not kelce or kittle greatness. And kittle has the added bonus of being 4 years younger. Add on most tight ends over 30 tend to decline especially after 32 when this new contract would kick in. I don’t think it is in the eagles best interest to sign him to an extension that kicks in at 32 years old.

Sounds like a plan.

 

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3 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

no offense but the eagles 5 years ago were infatuated with wentz and thought he was a generational talent. So much so they maneuvered up the board to get him. If the belief is hurts was drafted as hedging their bets on wentz it doesn’t exactly give me great confidence in their scouting of QBs cause it means they weren't exactly accurate on their assessment with wentz originally.

Add on it is easy for the eagles to say we wanted Russell Wilson after the fact and run with it. If you wanted him that bad And thought he’d be that great you had multiple second rounders that year, didn’t take him and he was a QB who inherently has better value then any other position. I legitimately hate the eagles stupid PR spin. If you loved him so much why gamble it and why not take him when you had multiple opportunities to do so at pick 46 and 59. You took a linebacker over a Potential Qb you thought could be a franchise QB. It’s the biggest spin job the eagles continue to use 

They can say they think Hurts is Russell Wilson but i call BS. There’s only one Russell Wilson in the league. Kyler murray who went 1 might be a closest thing to him. Hurts isn’t murray. And i like hurts. Also they have used the spin machine with JJAW, pryor and a bunch of other players who have failed. You know how many years i heard Tobin was going to be really good from the eagles? A lot. The eagles spin things the way they want to. However doesn’t mean it actually is true. I like hurts but i think it’s absurd to say he’s Russell Wilson. It’s unfair to him to have to live up to that lofty expectation and i don’t think he’s as talented as Wilson. 

Speaking of good, bad & ugly . . .

I know it was a long time ago and it's a different regime etc. etc. but you just reminded me of something:

This team passed on Dan Marino & Jim Kelly at pick# 8 in the 1983 draft to take RB Michael Haddix:

Career NFL statistics
Rushing yards: 1,635
Average: 3.0
Rushing TDs: 3

                                                    Just sayin' . . . 

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9 hours ago, 20dawk4life said:

The ugly- the new fox score board. God is that annoying right in the middle of the tv. Who the F thought that was a good idea? Fire that arsehat immediately. 

A little OT but speaking of ugly: sorry, but the new Sofi stadium in LA looks like a half-finished alien UFO.

Horrific design and with that roof, still no relief from the ever-rising California temps. Garbage.

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9 hours ago, 20dawk4life said:

The ugly- the new fox score board. God is that annoying right in the middle of the tv. Who the F thought that was a good idea? Fire that arsehat immediately. 

Trump

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Did the No Names have any players that had to leave the field for IVs/dehydration? I don't remember seeing any leave. But, the Eagles had a few. I'm wondering if conditioning/preparedness was also an issue in this game. 

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3 hours ago, McNabbIsDone said:

Speaking of good, bad & ugly . . .

I know it was a long time ago and it's a different regime etc. etc. but you just reminded me of something:

This team passed on Dan Marino & Jim Kelly at pick# 8 in the 1983 draft to take RB Michael Haddix:

Career NFL statistics
Rushing yards: 1,635
Average: 3.0
Rushing TDs: 3

                                                    Just sayin' . . . 

Haddix was so unremarkable.  We never drafted all that well back then.  But the one thing different about those picks as compared to Howie's is that those guys could actually play a little.

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10 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Great write up as always. I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I do disagree on Hurts being a luxury pick though. He was drafted as a possible alternative to Wentz going forward, not as a backup. I didn’t agree with the pick at the time and I hope Wentz makes it look like a stupid pick, but yesterday wasn’t promising.

I never thought of Hurts as an NFL caliber starting QB. I always thought maybe a decent backup or gimmick player. I know QB’s always tend to get over-drafted but to take this guy in the 2nd round was a huge reach. Was he really a better prospect than Russell Wilson or Dak    Prescott who were drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds respectively. If this guy is our future, we’ve got some major problems. 

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2 hours ago, CaliEagle said:

Did the No Names have any players that had to leave the field for IVs/dehydration? I don't remember seeing any leave. But, the Eagles had a few. I'm wondering if conditioning/preparedness was also an issue in this game. 

I know Ron rivera had an IV at halftime due to his cancer and keeping him hydrate. Not trying to be funny it was the only Washington person i heard about getting an IV

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17 hours ago, hukdonfoniks said:

Doug suffers from the same thing Andy suffered from here.  He believes in the system so strongly, he can't get away from it when it's not working.  He's got to go back to the whiteboard and start drawing up something new because forcing it isn't the trick.  Not with this lineup anyway. 

That pretty much sums it up. When everything bad that is happening on offense is because of your passing game, it isn't likely you'll "pass" your way out of it. You can wear a team down with runs even if they aren't effective early. You can even open things up for a struggling passing game if a defense reasonably expects a run. There should have been more balance considering we had a 17 point lead at one point. Sometimes Doug sees that offense struggling and doubles down believing that if he just sticks with it, things will turn around. 

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On 9/14/2020 at 3:35 AM, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. I said when the Eagles drafted Jalen Hurts that I didn’t see how you could afford a luxury pick in the second round

Yeah you are not  telling anyone you told us so. We all hated the pick. If you want to feel like you were the only one who was against it then I guess congratulations. 

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7 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Yeah you are not  telling anyone you told us so. We all hated the pick. If you want to feel like you were the only one who was against it then I guess congratulations. 

I do appreciate the congratulations. That was more going to be toward the people who said it was a good pick because we’d have a package for him. 

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If we had played Pryor at RG and kept that physical RB we got a year ago from the Bears we would have won on Sunday.  Two inexpensive players.  Instead we play a RG who doesn't belong in the league and a tiny RB because he's the only healthy RB of our top three and per Howie's fancy, he's tiny

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I saw the whole game watching Tivo on Mon night after only seeing highlights on Sunday.What a disappointment... I agree with e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! on most every point on his Ugly posts.Even by the end of Q3 with the defense playing solid. a better game approach might have saved the game as it was still 17-14 Eagles.  It's easy to say. But of course the players play the game. Wentz's execution was just bad - together with the play calling. in each possession just before half time and the rest of the game. It was long pass play after another and 2 INT's on 1st down and a couple sacks just wasted those possessions and made the FG try  too long. 5 or 6 series just given to that other  team, with short field possession. What really sank into me is after the game Wentz basically admitted that he will still be  a gunslinger.. I think someone researched that Went'z record is 15-16.  It starts with him he says. but why doesn't he understand what the problem is to be able to solve that problem. 

Even Doug's speech at halftime, saying he was going to continue the same approach  was just wrong in hindsight even after the 1st INT. Wentz accepts responsibility. but I don't think he has truly learnt learnt, what the real problem was in the past 5 years. He clearly is also not as mobile as he once was. Maybe putting all that beef on affects his mobility. In addition, every D line  tackler is wise to his go to escape move of ducking under the tackler. That doesn't work now and hasn't worked in a while.. They are looking for that  and  just tackle low.. Just throw the ball away, before you get injured again..at least 4 of those sacks he had an opportunity to throw the ball away after evading the 1st tackler, but the 2nd and 3rd guys got him, when he tried the old duck under move.. Even that sack when Bostic came up the middle unblocked on 4th and 4 . He didn't see him until the last second he was too late, as he was looking downfield for a long play. Not just the 4 yards. That was on Pederson. Where was the short 1st down play. Bostic came a long way and there was plenty of time for a short 1st down play.

Actions do speak louder than words. But it's the same speech after all those losses in 2018 and  parts of 2019 where he says he' has to do a better job.. I think he still thinks he has to do a better job executing the long pass plays to get the 1st down , rather than to do a better job to check down or take what is available for the 1st down , in other words doing what he has always done, with no great results.. I say he doesn't know how to do that, and his accuracy will always be a problem. In some ways the draft did him no favors, which tempted Pedeson and Wentz to play long ball with all the speedsters WR's . Look what happened. in the game INT after INT, and sack after sack. At least last year with no WR's,  he and Doug were  literally forced to play small ball, TE, and to check down to charlie running back. Yes they were long drives and with a decent OL. But a small gain is better than a sack , incomplete or INT.

Game plan, and Wentz poor recognition of how the plays were developing and Wentz forcing to the WR's Hightower especially with telegraphed throws were 75% of the reason why the Eagles lost. maybe 15% were the newbies on Offense both WR's and OL being inexperienced and their 1st game and 10 % was due to injuries . Basically Doug and Carson laid eggs. Whether they can learn from this game I don't know. If Carson and Doug use the same game plan against the Rams, It may not be pretty and could be game over by half time. I hope I'm wrong..

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On 9/14/2020 at 3:21 PM, weko said:

1-5 is a distinct possibility

Heck this team could lose to the Bengals too if they play like this. 

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On 9/14/2020 at 5:05 PM, 20dawk4life said:

Someone needs to fire that sum beech

Yeah . . . then let's hire Joe Biden . . .        :lol:       :facepalm:       :huh:       :facepalm:       :lol:

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On 9/14/2020 at 3:21 PM, weko said:

1-5 is a distinct possibility

And at that point the only interesting thing will be: how do the team & Spuds  'spin'  it ?

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17 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I do appreciate the congratulations. That was more going to be toward the people who said it was a good pick because we’d have a package for him. 

Give Jeffery a contact extension and draft a guy who basically does the the same things he does only worse. It’s like doubling down on stupidity. 

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32 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Give Jeffery a contact extension and draft a guy who basically does the the same things he does only worse. It’s like doubling down on stupidity. 

To be honest I really didn’t love that draft class. Even Miles Sanders I was skeptical on. I like Josh Jacobs as a running back in that class and everyone else I was pretty underwhelmed by. I thought the eagle should sign a veteran and not use that second round pick on a running back. I would have waited in till the 2020 class cause I thought that class was going to be immensely better than this one. Frankly I like Miles Sanders and think he’s good but I wouldn’t be surprised if JK Dobbins is better than Miles Sanders in two years and there was a ton of other really good backs. I get Miles Sanders is good  but man that guy seems to have a nagging soft tissue injury all the time. Last year he left 3 to 4 games with an injury and it bothered him over the course of the season. At some point we might have to say Go out and get another legitimate running back because we can’t trust male Sanders to be healthy throughout the year. I hated the JJAW pick. I know coaches at the University of Arizona, They also were not very impressed by him when they played and game planned against him. However they were much higher on Dillard than I was. I thought the background with him was concerning. I thought the value was there for him since he drop but then I also question why are all these teams allowing a tackle in a mediocre to poor tackle class drop. And Miller I thought they completely reached. I thought he was a six round or two undrafted type of fancy man. I didn’t see it. I didn’t think he was super athletic. I think he should’ve stayed in school for another year to improve on his craft. And Thorson was just a ridiculously dumb pick. I get they needed a young back up quarterback to groom. I just thought Thorson was an undrafted type of kid. I didn’t see it and he had an injury background

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1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

To be honest I really didn’t love that draft class. Even Miles Sanders I was skeptical on. I like Josh Jacobs as a running back in that class and everyone else I was pretty underwhelmed by. I get Miles Sanders looked good last year but man that guy seems to have a nagging soft tissue injury all the time. Last year he left 3 to 4 games with an injury and it bothered him over the course of the season. At some point we might have to say Go out and get another legitimate running back because we can’t trust male Sanders to be healthy throughout the year. I hated the JJAW pick. I know coaches at the University of Arizona, They also were not very impressed by him when they played and game planned against him. However they were much higher on Dillard than I was. I thought the background with him was concerning. I thought the value was there for him since he drop but then I also question why are all these teams allowing a tackle in a mediocre to poor tackle class drop. And Miller I thought they completely reached. I thought he was a six round or two undrafted type of fancy man. I didn’t see it. I didn’t think he was super athletic. I think he should’ve stayed in school for another year to improve on his craft. And Thorson was just a ridiculously dumb pick. I get they needed a young back up quarterback to groom. I just thought Thorson was an undrafted type of kid. I didn’t see it and he had an injury background

I like Miles and I was happy the took him, but I do think some people (at least around here) are overvaluing him. I agree he’s had a lot of nagging type issues that have me concerned about him. I’m not ready to say he’s a lock just yet. The Eagles have all these guys who seem to suffer injuries that we want to (as fans) anoint them as the greatest thing since sliced bread, but they really aren’t there yet. Same thing with Reagor this year. A lot of people seem to think the kid has already made it. No we still need to see how he develops. Potential is not an absolute so although I do think it’s fine to be positive, it’s best not to assume a guy is going to be great at least until he gets it done over a few seasons. Dillard is another guy I think people have assumed will be good. To me the jury is still out on that guy at best. 

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7 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I like Miles and I was happy the took him, but I do think some people (at least around here) are overvaluing him. I agree he’s had a lot of nagging type issues that have me concerned about him. I’m not ready to say he’s a lock just yet. The Eagles have all these guys who seem to suffer injuries that we want to (as fans) anoint them as the greatest thing since sliced bread, but they really aren’t there yet. Same thing with Reagor this year. A lot of people seem to think the kid has already made it. No we still need to see how he develops. Potential is not an absolute so although I do think it’s fine to be positive, it’s best not to assume a guy is going to be great at least until he gets it done over a few seasons. Dillard is another guy I think people have assumed will be good. To me the jury is still out on that guy at best. 

dillard where people are annoying him last year was ridiculous. He was OK at left tackle and a disaster when they ask him to play right tackle. In his defense they should’ve never asked him to play right tackle as he hasn’t done it in years and they asked him to do it in a week. Nevertheless when there’s that much smoke coming out about him mentally and off the field then there is usually something behind it. I  Still thought it behooved the Eagles to take another tackle in this past draft class at 53. You didn’t know what he was going to be. The rumor swirling that they were going to try to trade him. I thought Ezra Cleveland was a perfect fit. Super athletic tackle that could also play guard. So even if dillard panned out you could’ve moved Cleveland to guard and when lane Johnson was done and then moved him to the right tackle

I like the reagor pick. Granted if it were possible I’d have moved up for lamb. But besides that He was a much better fit for what they wanna do then what Justin Jefferson was. I don’t know how that’s gonna turn out. I do think he is going to be a solid pro but he could wind up being a bust. It’s nice to have confidence but this organization hasn’t shown to be hitting homers or that many doubles to just say it’s going to happen. 

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46 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

dillard where people are annoying him last year was ridiculous. He was OK at left tackle and a disaster when they ask him to play right tackle. In his defense they should’ve never asked him to play right tackle as he hasn’t done it in years and they asked him to do it in a week. Nevertheless when there’s that much smoke coming out about him mentally and off the field then there is usually something behind it. I  Still thought it behooved the Eagles to take another tackle in this past draft class at 53. You didn’t know what he was going to be. The rumor swirling that they were going to try to trade him. I thought Ezra Cleveland was a perfect fit. Super athletic tackle that could also play guard. So even if dillard panned out you could’ve moved Cleveland to guard and when lane Johnson was done and then moved him to the right tackle

I like the reagor pick. Granted if it were possible I’d have moved up for lamb. But besides that He was a much better fit for what they wanna do then what Justin Jefferson was. I don’t know how that’s gonna turn out. I do think he is going to be a solid pro but he could wind up being a bust. It’s nice to have confidence but this organization hasn’t shown to be hitting homers or that many doubles to just say it’s going to happen. 

Agreed. I can say that I’m optimistic some of these guys will pan out, but I can’t say for certain I believe any of them will. 

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