kiwieagle Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 7 hours ago, Mat said: Just playing devils advocate here with the players you mentioned CJGJ - They offered him a deal which was for longer and more than he got. He thought he was worth more and in the end signed for less than they offered him. He didn't want to be in Philly, you can't do much about that Hargrave - Money pit contracts have been brought up, Hargrave is exactly one of these contracts people don't want Howie signing. He is 30, he signed 4 years for 84 million (40 guarnteed), the contract is backloaded, there is an out after year 2 with a huge dead cap hit and they have added on 2 void years at the end of the deal. He has a top 3 contract of all DT's, he has the third highest amount of guaranteed money in the contract, he is the only other player other than Aaron Donald and Cam Hayward in the top 10 that signed their deal over 30 and the 49'ers let Buckner go who is essentially on the same deal. The Eagles are probably shifting to more of a permanent 3-4 D and have drafted his replacement in Davis to play NT. While Hargrave had a great couple of seasons, you probably don't want to be handing out top 3 money to him right now. Edwards - While the deal was reasonable, it sounds like he wanted to go play in Chicago because he is from Illinois. He was a fantastic pick up for the Eagles, this is one they may have wished they could keep but he may not have wanted to stay anyway since he took less to go to the Bears. Sanders - You don't want to give backs good money on their second contract, let alone backs that are often injured and have only had one really good year. Sanders walks and you draft a replacement. He is getting close to top 10 money for all backs. The contract does have an out after the 2nd year which I bet the Panthers end up taking with most of the money in the back end. Penny, Scott and Gainwell will be a nice trio, you have to hope Penny stays healthy though. White - Role player that was expected to be replaced by Dean this year. Stop gap option Pascal - Role player that you can sign someone for the vet min that will provide the same Epps - You want an upgrade over Epps and Blankenship looks like he will be. They also let him walk while they had a deal out for CJGJ. Most people wouldn't be too cut up about losing him and would have wanted to find a way to upgrade the position either through the draft or FA. The same cap tactics that Howie is being criticised for, other teams are also using to their advantage. They were still able to re-sign key contributors and leaders in the locker room and they have 2 first round draft picks this year including 1 in the top 10. The worry is they were quite deep in some positions last year, losing that depth was bound to happen. They need to find ways to replace it I am not saying that you needed to sign all of those players - just that there were cap constraints Howie had to work within which if he didn't - some different decisions could have been an option and we probably end up retaining one or two more of them. For example: if we don't have $50m+ in dead cap - Howie would have had more flexibility to easily beaten the Lions offer and given CGJ say a 1 yr $9m offer where that cap hits between 2023/24 (which is all you can do in a 1 year deal - adding any void years helps spread the bonus component and lower the 2023 number but that would all end up in 2024 cap as soon as it becomes dead money). CGJ clearly didn't like what the market was and wanted to bet on himself with a 1 yr deal and hit the market again next year. But to make it work for us, we needed to spread that cap hit into Yrs 3 and 4, and hence more of a long-term deal was offered. And then you probably keep one of the two LBs if you were a little less constrained by the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, kiwieagle said: For example: if we don't have $50m+ in dead cap - Howie would have had more flexibility to easily beaten the Lions offer and given CGJ say a 1 yr $9m offer We could have offered him that deal with our current dead cap number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYEagle Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 12 hours ago, kiwieagle said: I am not saying that you needed to sign all of those players - just that there were cap constraints Howie had to work within which if he didn't - some different decisions could have been an option and we probably end up retaining one or two more of them. For example: if we don't have $50m+ in dead cap - Howie would have had more flexibility to easily beaten the Lions offer and given CGJ say a 1 yr $9m offer where that cap hits between 2023/24 (which is all you can do in a 1 year deal - adding any void years helps spread the bonus component and lower the 2023 number but that would all end up in 2024 cap as soon as it becomes dead money). CGJ clearly didn't like what the market was and wanted to bet on himself with a 1 yr deal and hit the market again next year. But to make it work for us, we needed to spread that cap hit into Yrs 3 and 4, and hence more of a long-term deal was offered. And then you probably keep one of the two LBs if you were a little less constrained by the cap. But then you wouldn't have had last years team right? And we were a crappy field, a freak Hurts fumble and a horrible ref call from winning the Super Bowl. I've said it before, I'll say it again......I'll take Howie's current strategy over Banner's let's have 100 million in Cap Room and be Cap Champions!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portyansky Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 13 hours ago, kiwieagle said: For example: if we don't have $50m+ in dead cap - Howie would have had more flexibility to easily beaten the Lions offer and given CGJ say a 1 yr $9m offer where that cap hits between 2023/24 (which is all you can do in a 1 year deal - adding any void years helps spread the bonus component and lower the 2023 number but that would all end up in 2024 cap as soon as it becomes dead money). CGJ clearly didn't like what the market was and wanted to bet on himself with a 1 yr deal and hit the market again next year. But to make it work for us, we needed to spread that cap hit into Yrs 3 and 4, and hence more of a long-term deal was offered. And then you probably keep one of the two LBs if you were a little less constrained by the cap. Didn't have to beat it, could gave just matched it. CJGJ screwed himself, nothing to do with cap. I can't believe this thread is so long with all these armchair GMs. Howie is 2-3 years ahead of all of you. I'll be concerned about cap/$ when Howie retires, until then meh. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20dawk4life Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Good news everybody….. 2024 we don’t have a lot of free agents worth re-signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: Good news everybody….. 2024 we don’t have a lot of free agents worth re-signing. Let’s re-visit that in September 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYEagle Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Infam said: Let’s re-visit that in September 2023. Why? Shouldn't we be discussing Mock drafts, cap space, free agents like next year already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, NYEagle said: Why? Shouldn't we be discussing Mock drafts, cap space, free agents like next year already? Absolutely. I was trying to say that I am convinced that by then Mr. Roseman has added interesting players on one year prove it deals making that statement look very.. dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connecticut Eagle Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I wanted to revisit how we got here. Not all dead cap is created equal. Below is a breakdown of the $54 million - $45 million of which is just four players. The first group is void years. This is truly "kick-the-can-down-the-road" money. It's how we were able to sign Bradberry last spring and stay under the 2022 cap. Void years are a tool used by the GM. We can argue about the extent to which it is used. But it is done deliberately, not necessarily a mistake, and definitely not wasted money. Just spreading out the cost of a player. FYI, Hargrave restructured his contract once and Seumalo restructured his contract three times to clear cap space. Again, restructurings are more "kick-the-can-down-the-road" maneuvers. The second group is really dead money. These are a result of a contract being terminated early or a player being traded. This is truly wasted money. Cash out the door for player seasons that never occurred. It's mostly just two guys - Cox and Brooks. Brooks retired. Cox started with a 102.6 million dollar contract that was restructured 3 times. Lastly, Hargrave, Seumalo, and Cox all did restructurings in 2021. So you are basically looking at the shadow from the $34 million Wentz cap hit. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Infam said: Absolutely. I was trying to say that I am convinced that by then Mr. Roseman has added interesting players on one year prove it deals making that statement look very.. dated. Yeah I was thinking the same. Look at all the FA’s we had who weren’t on the roster this time last year: CJGJ Ndamukong Suh Linval Joseph Robert Quinn James Bradyberry Kyzir White Zach Pascal was signed today or tomorrow (agreed to terms the 21st) Thats a huge chunk of our FA class 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manz2821 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 59 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: Yeah I was thinking the same. Look at all the FA’s we had who weren’t on the roster this time last year: CJGJ Ndamukong Suh Linval Joseph Robert Quinn James Bradyberry Kyzir White Zach Pascal was signed today or tomorrow (agreed to terms the 21st) Thats a huge chunk of our FA class I have a feeling Quinn comes back. Just on his history with Desai but dependent on who we pick in the first 2 rounds. I know Barnett will be back but we do seem a little thin at DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20dawk4life Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 7 hours ago, Infam said: Absolutely. I was trying to say that I am convinced that by then Mr. Roseman has added interesting players on one year prove it deals making that statement look very.. dated. Na. I factored that in. Most of our free agents will gone and nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwieagle Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 10 hours ago, NYEagle said: But then you wouldn't have had last years team right? And we were a crappy field, a freak Hurts fumble and a horrible ref call from winning the Super Bowl. I've said it before, I'll say it again......I'll take Howie's current strategy over Banner's let's have 100 million in Cap Room and be Cap Champions!!! Again my argument isn’t whether it’s the right or wrong strategy - just that pretending it doesn’t matter at all or isn’t relatively more constraining than if we didn’t have that large dead cap number isn’t correct. It does matter - we worked through it in large part because a rookie QB contract playing at all pro level is the best value you can have in the league. And going forward forces Howie to really hit on a few draft classes because relative to teams without huge dead cap numbers going forward - we will have less flexibility to replace large numbers of draft misses with higher priced FA contracts. It’s not insurmountable but lowers the room for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 12 hours ago, kiwieagle said: Again my argument isn’t whether it’s the right or wrong strategy - just that pretending it doesn’t matter at all or isn’t relatively more constraining than if we didn’t have that large dead cap number isn’t correct. It does matter - we worked through it in large part because a rookie QB contract playing at all pro level is the best value you can have in the league. And going forward forces Howie to really hit on a few draft classes because relative to teams without huge dead cap numbers going forward - we will have less flexibility to replace large numbers of draft misses with higher priced FA contracts. It’s not insurmountable but lowers the room for error. I think you are missing the most important point: Money now is worth more than money later. If you take a million of future money early, it’s a higher percentage of the ever increasing cap.. so as long as you spend it well… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cochis_Calhoun Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 21 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said: I wanted to revisit how we got here. Not all dead cap is created equal. Below is a breakdown of the $54 million - $45 million of which is just four players. The first group is void years. This is truly "kick-the-can-down-the-road" money. It's how we were able to sign Bradberry last spring and stay under the 2022 cap. Void years are a tool used by the GM. We can argue about the extent to which it is used. But it is done deliberately, not necessarily a mistake, and definitely not wasted money. Just spreading out the cost of a player. FYI, Hargrave restructured his contract once and Seumalo restructured his contract three times to clear cap space. Again, restructurings are more "kick-the-can-down-the-road" maneuvers. The second group is really dead money. These are a result of a contract being terminated early or a player being traded. This is truly wasted money. Cash out the door for player seasons that never occurred. It's mostly just two guys - Cox and Brooks. Brooks retired. Cox started with a 102.6 million dollar contract that was restructured 3 times. Lastly, Hargrave, Seumalo, and Cox all did restructurings in 2021. So you are basically looking at the shadow from the $34 million Wentz cap hit. I was genuinely surprised when Brooks popped up in the dead cap calculations this year, I was sure he retired more than a year ago seems like an age since I saw him in the jersey. He played 2 games for us after signing his big extension towards the end of 2019 and they cost us $10.5million each give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 NFL salary cap is a myth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Mat said: NFL salary cap is a myth That was done to improve this year’s cap. Whatever happens between now and 2026, we’re not paying him 30+m$ to play RT. It’s a phony contract to alleviate cap issues today, and he probably got a bit of a pay raise in agreeing to sign it. It’ll act as a void year if it comes to that, or as a starting point to a new contract if he decides to play longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 So we have 20 mil in cap space after Lanes deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain F Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 43 minutes ago, Godfather said: So we have 20 mil in cap space after Lanes deal? 13.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 18 hours ago, Captain F said: 13.9 I guess that will be used to sign the draft class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connecticut Eagle Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Godfather said: I guess that will be used to sign the draft class From Spotrac... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portyansky Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 The Eagles just gave Lane Johnson a 33 mil extension and turned that into 10mil in cap space. People have been warning about the "hidden cap hell” now since Howie has come back to being GM and still nothing. People have been claiming to be cap experts, saying the Eagles can’t sign in anyone, and yet they probably have had their most active off-season in sometime. Here’s a simple way to explain the cap. Howie knows it better than anyone on TATE and that’s all that truly matters. That’s why these guys are typing gloom and doom while he’s making moves on moves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 8 hours ago, EazyEaglez said: Howie knows it better than anyone on TATE and that’s all that truly matters. That’s why these guys are typing gloom and doom while he’s making moves on moves. We all know Howie has had his faults in the draft but one thing we absolutely know is he is a master with the cap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Overthecap is now current on our cap space. It's $21.3 million with about $6 million going to our draft class if we pick at our current slots. I would guess the Eagles will have about $32 million in dead cap next year and $25 million in dead cap in 2025 if Kelce, Cox, Barnett and Graham are all done after this season. My best guess is that we will have about $35 million in cap room next season if we don't make any major contract signings between now and then (that figure includes about $10 million in spending for the second year of the current draft class and next year's class.) We should have about 38 players on the roster for that money (which include current players who are under contract and are likely to make the 53, which I project will be 24 players, and about 14 draft picks from the next two classes.) We are in decent shape for starters (assuming Dean, Davis and a few others are ready for starting roles) but will need the next two draft classes to provide three or four really good players. The way I see it, a Hurts extension will probably cost $15 million next season, so my best guess is that they will have around $20 million in cap space. So all in all, I think we are in good shape with the cap. If you look at our team for 2024, the potential starters under contract on defense are Sweat, Reddick, Davis, Williams, Dean, Slay, Maddox and Bradberry. On offense they are Brown, Smith, Goedert, Lane, Jurgens, Mailata and Dickerson. So ideally in the next two drafts (assuming Hurts is extended) you would like to see them get competent starters on offense at guard, WR, RB, and on defense at LB and safety, while adding depth on the dline. Or maybe guys like Gainwell (or Sermon), Blankenship and others step up and grab starting roles. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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