2023: Continued dead cap hell (Currently $54 Million)

[paco]

1 hour ago, 20dawk4life said:

Any other city: GM holds a press conference the next day to apologize to the fans for a momentary lapse of judgment and work to do better. 

Philly: General consensus "LOL awesome”

[nipples]

Just now, time2rock said:

I would definitely bring back CJGJ but Epps?  I like what I've seen from Blank ... I don't think moving on from Epps would be catastrophic.  I'd sooner bring back Edwards than Epps (if given the choice between the two, and likely choices will need to be made considering the large number of players hitting free agency on March 15th and the amount of cap space we have to work with).  And because of that, I'm somewhat on the fence about Seumalo.  I hate to disrupt what that unit has going on, but on the other hand I would have to say he is the "weak link" (not a knock on him because he is playing great ... more a testament to how excellent the other 4 are).  They could play Jurgens at RG for a year (or 2) should Kelce decide to continue playing here (hopefully that will be the case).  

I agree with that. I think Blankenship can fill in for Epps and be just as good. I don’t think Epps and Edwards will get comparable money though, some team will pay him well after the season he had IMO. So I can see a scenario where they can afford to keep Epps but not TJ. 

[time2rock]

Our players scheduled to become UFAs on March 15th:

• Bradberry
• Cox
• Dillard
• Edwards
• Epps
• CJGJ
• Graham
• Hargrave
• Joseph
• Kelce
• Lovato
• Minshew
• Pascal
• Sanders
• Scott
• Seumalo
• Suh
• Toth
• White

Graham already announced he plans to continue playing after this season.  If Kelce decides the same, I am bringing them both back.  After that, I'd give priority to CJGJ and Edwards.  I'd include Hargrave too but I think they would have extended him by now if they were planning to go that route.  Maybe they tried but couldn't get close to what he wants.  He likely will get a huge offer elsewhere.  I like Sanders and would definitely consider bringing him back for the right price (not a knock on him ... it's just not smart business to pay RBs on 2nd contracts unless on a super team friendly deal).  They'll likely let him test the market before making a move there.  I think Scott will be able to be re-signed for much cheaper and would be great to have back ... draft pick/Gainwell/Scott as our top 3 in 2023.  Lovato should be a relatively cheap signing too.  Dean replaces White in the lineup, Blank replaces Epps, and Jurgens replaces Seumalo (unless Kelce hangs em up ... then perhaps you do bring back Seumalo).

 

[Captain F]

10 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Our players scheduled to become UFAs on March 15th:

• Bradberry
• Edwards
• CJGJ
• Hargrave
• Kelce
• Seumalo

 

 

 

Figure out how to bring back these 6. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

What in the blue hell does Tom Brady have to do with the Eagles cap situation ??

[Guest]

4 hours ago, MillerTime said:

Hargrave’s contract automatically voids 23 days before the 2023 season. Expect an extension by February 20th. 2.3M is for 2023. With no extension over 9M accelerates from 2024 and 2025. This will save the Eagles roughly 9M. And yes, OTC already has the accelerated numbers calculated into the 4M in cap space that is remaining.

The circled numbers stay in place if he signs a new deal.

So they would save the 4.8 in 2024 and 2.3 in 2025 against the 2023 cap.

So 2023, he would have 4.8 existing, plus his new signing bonus and base salary.  So I would think the Eagles end up back where they started with close to an 11 million cap hit.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

Our players scheduled to become UFAs on March 15th:

• Bradberry
• Cox
• Dillard
• Edwards
• Epps
• CJGJ
• Graham
• Hargrave
• Joseph
• Kelce
• Lovato
• Minshew
• Pascal
• Sanders
• Scott
• Seumalo
• Suh
• Toth
• White

Graham already announced he plans to continue playing after this season.  If Kelce decides the same, I am bringing them both back.  After that, I'd give priority to CJGJ and Edwards.  I'd include Hargrave too but I think they would have extended him by now if they were planning to go that route.  Maybe they tried but couldn't get close to what he wants.  He likely will get a huge offer elsewhere.  I like Sanders and would definitely consider bringing him back for the right price (not a knock on him ... it's just not smart business to pay RBs on 2nd contracts unless on a super team friendly deal).  They'll likely let him test the market before making a move there.  I think Scott will be able to be re-signed for much cheaper and would be great to have back ... draft pick/Gainwell/Scott as our top 3 in 2023.  Lovato should be a relatively cheap signing too.  Dean replaces White in the lineup, Blank replaces Epps, and Jurgens replaces Seumalo (unless Kelce hangs em up ... then perhaps you do bring back Seumalo).

 

Edwards I have to imagine is getting a lucrative FA deal. LB franchise tender is now somehow over 20m$, if he gets anything even remotely close to that then he’s gone

[Guest]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

Graham already announced he plans to continue playing after this season.  If Kelce decides the same,

These two are tricky, and the contracts were basically done to set up to be cut.  There is no info on what these guarantees are, so we don't know what these large guarantees are that will kick in.

Quote

Jason Kelce signed a one year, $14 million contract with the Eagles. $14 million is guaranteed including a $10.13 million signing bonus. The 2023 season is a placeholder in the event that Kelce retires or is released. He has a $2.75 million roster bonus that is guaranteed that year. If on the roster after June 2nd of 2023 a large guarantee kicks in for 2024.

Quote

The Eagles and Brandon Graham agreed on a two year contract in 2021 worth $18.5 million. Graham received a $10.9 million signing bonus as part of the contract and has a $6.25 million option in the 2nd contract year. The Eagles included four additional years on the contract which will essentially serve as void years for salary cap proration. Technically there are massive salaries in the late years of the contract that will guarantee if Graham is on the roster on the 2nd day of the 2023 league year. The reason for this instead of the void is to allow the Eagles to use a June 1 cut provision in 2023 and split the remaining dead money in the contract between 2023 and 2024.

 

[MillerTime]

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The circled numbers stay in place if he signs a new deal.

So they would save the 4.8 in 2024 and 2.3 in 2025 against the 2023 cap.

So 2023, he would have 4.8 existing, plus his new signing bonus and base salary.  So I would think the Eagles end up back where they started with close to an 11 million cap hit.

 

You’re right, I missed 2M when looking at the 2023 numbers. It would save 7M not 9M. It all depends on how they do the extension but I would assume they will do it to save the full 7M.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

You’re right, I missed 2M when looking at the 2023 numbers. It would save 7M not 9M. It all depends on how they do the extension but I would assume they will do it to save the full 7M.

But you are replacing the savings with new signing bonus and base salary, so it will end up almost a wash.  I have an email out to Jason at OTC to see how this works.

Because the contract voids at the end of the league year, the extension would have to be done before the start of the new league year to stop the bonuses from accelerating.

[MillerTime]

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

But you are replacing the savings with new signing bonus and base salary, so it will end up almost a wash.  I have an email out to Jason at OTC to see how this works.

Because the contract voids at the end of the league year, the extension would have to be done before the start of the new league year to stop the bonuses from accelerating.

Let me know what you find out.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

Let me know what you find out.

Just got an email back from Jason at OTC.  If Hargrave ( or any player ) signs a new deal before the end of the league year, all that void money stays in place, and the new contract and signing bonus is in addition to the existing void years.

[time2rock]

10 hours ago, downundermike said:

What in the blue hell does Tom Brady have to do with the Eagles cap situation ??

Gotta be able to fit him in as Hurts’ backup!  

[ManchesterEagle]

Howie is great and often unfairly abused on this board. 

But one area he has really neglected for me is drafting young talent on the D.

He’s done an incredible job this year of building a team with free agents, both short and long term, but next year is going to be a real test as so many will want to be paid.
 

[CheesesteakNBeer]

22 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Howie is great and often unfairly abused on this board. 

But one area he has really neglected for me is drafting young talent on the D.

He’s done an incredible job this year of building a team with free agents, both short and long term, but next year is going to be a real test as so many will want to be paid.
 

I think the long term defensive sensus was load up the dline and do the best you can everywhere else. The Eagles philosophy seems to always of been pass rush pass rush pass rush. Just so happens we were able to bring in some great talent on the back end. I wouldn't get used to it as with our cap and future outlook that isn't going to be the case.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CheesesteakNBeer said:

I think the long term defensive sensus was load up the dline and do the best you can everywhere else. The Eagles philosophy seems to always of been pass rush pass rush pass rush. Just so happens we were able to bring in some great talent on the back end. I wouldn't get used to it as with our cap and future outlook that isn't going to be the case.

We did the same thing in 2017, all those FA's hit and we won a title.

2022. all those FA's hit and we are on the verge of a title.

But as you said in the bolded, look at what happened 2018-19, there was no drafted players waiting in the wings, and those same FA's were either gone or did not continue to play at that level.  And there is no indication at this point that Jurgens, Davis and Dean are ready to step up and contribute at the level of the guys they are replacing.  Those are mighty big shoes to fill, especially Kelce's and Hargraves.

[jsb235]

43 minutes ago, downundermike said:

We did the same thing in 2017, all those FA's hit and we won a title.

2022. all those FA's hit and we are on the verge of a title.

But as you said in the bolded, look at what happened 2018-19, there was no drafted players waiting in the wings, and those same FA's were either gone or did not continue to play at that level.  And there is no indication at this point that Jurgens, Davis and Dean are ready to step up and contribute at the level of the guys they are replacing.  Those are mighty big shoes to fill, especially Kelce's and Hargraves.

Not really worried about Jurgens. He was solid in the preseason and has played well in limited time during the regular season. 

At DT, we have Davis, Williams, Tuipulotu and Elliss under contract, and Cox can probably be resigned for under $5 million. I know it's a step down from our current group, but Williams has been legit and Tuipulotu was getting good reviews before he was injured. If Davis takes a step forward, we should be fine. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Not really worried about Jurgens. He was solid in the preseason and has played well in limited time during the regular season. 

At DT, we have Davis, Williams, Tuipulotu and Elliss under contract, and Cox can probably be resigned for under $5 million. I know it's a step down from our current group, but Williams has been legit and Tuipulotu was getting good reviews before he was injured. If Davis takes a step forward, we should be fine. 

But Williams has been legit as the 4th/5th guy.  Will he be the same with more snaps ??

[jsb235]

11 minutes ago, downundermike said:

But Williams has been legit as the 4th/5th guy.  Will he be the same with more snaps ??

That's a good question. I don't think he would have a dramatic drop in production if his snaps go up, but he seems like a player that needs someone next to him who can command double teams. They like pairing him with Suh, and I don't think it is a surprise that Williams played better once Suh was added to the team.

If Davis can take a step forward (both in production and snaps played), then I think Williams will put up decent numbers.

[SkippyX]

2022 Best Cap Armageddon Ever!

[paco]

@downundermike :  What is the current 2023 dead cap hit.  I took a very quick, uncaffeinated look at it this am it its approaching 75 million?  Is that right?

 

Edit:

That is assuming the following are not resigned: Kelce, Hargrave, Semalo, and Bradberry

I also missed Kyzir White, who is another million.

 

[nipples]

On 2/2/2023 at 12:48 PM, ManchesterEagle said:

Howie is great and often unfairly abused on this board. 

But one area he has really neglected for me is drafting young talent on the D.

He’s done an incredible job this year of building a team with free agents, both short and long term, but next year is going to be a real test as so many will want to be paid.
 

In years past I agree, but let’s wait and see what they do in this draft as well as how Davis and Dean look next year. It feels to me like Howie had a major shift in draft philosophy the last couple years. Took two defenders in the first three rounds last year, focusing on drafting from SEC schools. If he nails this draft again, the "Howie can’t draft” narrative may need to go away. 

[jsb235]

1 hour ago, paco said:

@downundermike :  What is the current 2023 dead cap hit.  I took a very quick, uncaffeinated look at it this am it its approaching 75 million?  Is that right?

 

Edit:

That is assuming the following are not resigned: Kelce, Hargrave, Semalo, and Bradberry

I also missed Kyzir White, who is another million.

 

Are you using the dead cap figures on overthecap for Kelce and Graham? Did you include TJ Edwards? 

[paco]

16 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Are you using the dead cap figures on overthecap for Kelce and Graham? Did you include TJ Edwards? 

Admittedly I only looked at this real quick this AM out of curiosity.  I'm in my mid 40s with a toddler so sleep is hard to come by some nights  

 

I took this table:

Name	Cap Number
Fletcher Cox	$15,359,292
Brandon Brooks	$9,797,237
Jalen Reagor	$1,802,850
Anthony Harris	$997,412
Davion Taylor	$208,073
TOTAL	$28,388,912

 

And added:

Hargrave    $11,956,000 
Seumalo    $7,530,000 
Bradberry    $4,972,000 
Kyzir White    $1,172,000 
Total        $25,630,000 

 

Plus Kelce is another $21,373,000.  All in that takes us to $75,391,912

 

Of course, Kelce is likely to be a post June 1st designation. ($9.9 then $11.4)  Cox is likely the other.  ($2.5 then $7.5)  So the actual total will be less than 75 this year. And I'm not sure if the $3 million roster bonus for Kelce this year has an acceleration clause if he retires.  So likely we can subtract another 3 million.  So assuming those three things, it will be $53,443,912 this year plus another $18.9 from Cox and Kelce in 2024

 

As for Edwards, I missed him.  Way at the bottom of the table.  He would be an additional $711,00

[jsb235]

8 minutes ago, paco said:

Admittedly I only looked at this real quick this AM out of curiosity.  I'm in my mid 40s with a toddler so sleep is hard to come by some nights  

 

I took this table:

Name	Cap Number
Fletcher Cox	$15,359,292
Brandon Brooks	$9,797,237
Jalen Reagor	$1,802,850
Anthony Harris	$997,412
Davion Taylor	$208,073
TOTAL	$28,388,912

 

And added:

Hargrave    $11,956,000 
Seumalo    $7,530,000 
Bradberry    $4,972,000 
Kyzir White    $1,172,000 
Total        $25,630,000 

 

Plus Kelce is another $21,373,000.  All in that takes us to $75,391,912

 

Of course, Kelce is likely to be a post June 1st designation. ($9.9 then $11.4)  Cox is likely the other.  ($2.5 then $7.5)  So the actual total will be less than 75 this year. And I'm not sure if the $3 million roster bonus for Kelce this year has an acceleration clause if he retires.  So likely we can subtract another 3 million.  So assuming those three things, it will be $53,443,912 this year plus another $18.9 from Cox and Kelce in 2024

 

As for Edwards, I missed him.  Way at the bottom of the table.  He would be an additional $711,00

You also have to include Graham. But I think otc has bad numbers for the dead cap hits for both Kelce and Graham. We should know more about those contracts in the next month. I think both have a "poison pill" that inflates the cap figure. 

If i was going to guess, absent any resignings of our free agents with large dead cap hits - Kelce, Graham, Cox, Hargrave, etc. - $55 million is a good guess on our dead cap this year.