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Joe Hortiz (Ravens Director of College Scouting) -- GM Candidate


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Hortiz was born in Philly and spent 19 seasons with the Ravens with the last 7 of those being the director of college scouting. If you look at the Ravens draft classes over the years, they consistently know how to draft well.

Eric DeCosta recently took over for Ozzie Newsome and is also in his 40s, so he's not leaving the Ravens GM post any time soon. If Hortiz wants to be a GM, he can't wait to be DeCosta's successor with the Ravens, he will need to go elsewhere.

Apparently Hortiz was up for consideration during the Chip Kelly regime but he either was blocked or not interested in the position at that time. https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-eagles/report-eagles-spurned-two-more-gm-interviews

Things might be different this time around if Howie is gone?

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Interesting person for the position.  However, at this time I just don't see Lurie sacking Howie, though, since he did it once before then he might again strip away his power of overseeing personnel decisions and leave him to just managing the cap and contracts.  Even for the latter to happen I think we would have to pretty much implode this season and end up with a 3-12-1 record or worse and little to no cap space spent on aging injured players.  Maybe 4-11-1 also gets it done, but I think we'd have to have a historically bad season for Lurie's loyalty to be shaken enough to take such action.

From reading posts on this site it seems most of us would prefer a 'football guy' who knows talent and how it fits into the team than someone who is trying to 'be the smartest person in the room'.  I am of the opinion that outside of that 2017 season (and the off-season that preceded it) that Howie hasn't really done anything else above average in terms of drafting/trades.  That seems to be his 'lightning in a bottle' one-off year where everything just happened to work out well.  He has since done nothing of value to keep this team in SB contention and now we are looking at a bleak dismal losing season, perhaps not just this season but the next 2-3 at least.  He didn't refresh this team with younger/cheaper quality talent and it's now costing us.   Big time.

Hortiz sounds like someone with potential to be a solid GM, but if I had to bet then I'd bet that he'll be doing it for another team someday.

 

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2 hours ago, Green_Guinness said:

Interesting person for the position.  However, at this time I just don't see Lurie sacking Howie, though, since he did it once before then he might again strip away his power of overseeing personnel decisions and leave him to just managing the cap and contracts.  Even for the latter to happen I think we would have to pretty much implode this season and end up with a 3-12-1 record or worse and little to no cap space spent on aging injured players.  Maybe 4-11-1 also gets it done, but I think we'd have to have a historically bad season for Lurie's loyalty to be shaken enough to take such action.

From reading posts on this site it seems most of us would prefer a 'football guy' who knows talent and how it fits into the team than someone who is trying to 'be the smartest person in the room'.  I am of the opinion that outside of that 2017 season (and the off-season that preceded it) that Howie hasn't really done anything else above average in terms of drafting/trades.  That seems to be his 'lightning in a bottle' one-off year where everything just happened to work out well.  He has since done nothing of value to keep this team in SB contention and now we are looking at a bleak dismal losing season, perhaps not just this season but the next 2-3 at least.  He didn't refresh this team with younger/cheaper quality talent and it's now costing us.   Big time.

Hortiz sounds like someone with potential to be a solid GM, but if I had to bet then I'd bet that he'll be doing it for another team someday.

 

Mostly agree but this team still has to play 5 divisional games and on top of that will face the Niners, Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Seahawks, Packers and Cardinals.

Assuming they’ll win 3 maybe 4 games against their division rivals and 1 or 2 of the other games on the schedule, we’re still looking at 6 wins tops.

That won’t cut it IMO and an overhaul might still be inevitable.

CW might still be salvageable with the right QB coach but DP and JS will be the first guys to fall.

The elephant in the room is Howie. He should be the fall guy. As long as he’s here, nothing fundamentally will change and we’d still be looking at lousy draft classes and not enough young talent on the roster. His drafts killed us and that’s why he’s holding on to aging expensive veterans. Holding on to the few selections they made who did pan out not accepting the fact that it might be time to say goodbye while you might get something nice in return.

We need a football guy and great talent evaluator at the helm who has a clear vision what this team should look like, what identity his team should have.

Both the Ravens, Steelers and Patriots are great examples how a team should be run. Have a clear vision and mindset and don’t stir away from it. How come these teams always find talent in the draft, always find players who stick? One vision, one identity, they know exactly what players fit their scheme and identity and never devalue position. If a LB, S or CB is good and a perfect fit, they take him high. Not like the Eagles who always stir away from these positions in the first. That philosphy has cost us.

You think the Ravens regret taking Patrick Queen, C.J. Mosley or Marlon Humphrey in the first or the Steelers trading up for Devin Bush?! Nope, they got their man right there and don’t look back.

It’s time for change! A true overhaul and identity switch.

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There's literally no way that Howie should still be in charge of this team beyond the end of this year. In fact there's an argument that he should really be fired now before he can do anything else to 'manipulate the cap'.

I don't think this team gets anywhere near 6 wins. That's just my view of course but I can't see it. 

And so this team is looking at a high draft pick and what we are going to have Howie make that pick? Jeez may as well accept its a bad pick now then and that next years draft is a failure when we need to start hitting on picks. 

Time for a change. Time for someone who has a vision and an idea of what they want to do. Comes in with a plan and executes that plan. Someone with no emotional links with this roster so they can make the many tough decisions that they need to.

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8 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Mostly agree but this team still has to play 5 divisional games and on top of that will face the Niners, Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Seahawks, Packers and Cardinals.

Assuming they’ll win 3 maybe 4 games against their division rivals and 1 or 2 of the other games on the schedule, we’re still looking at 6 wins tops.

That won’t cut it IMO and an overhaul might still be inevitable.

CW might still be salvageable with the right QB coach but DP and JS will be the first guys to fall.

The elephant in the room is Howie. He should be the fall guy. As long as he’s here, nothing fundamentally will change and we’d still be looking at lousy draft classes and not enough young talent on the roster. His drafts killed us and that’s why he’s holding on to aging expensive veterans. Holding on to the few selections they made who did pan out not accepting the fact that it might be time to say goodbye while you might get something nice in return.

We need a football guy and great talent evaluator at the helm who has a clear vision what this team should look like, what identity his team should have.

Both the Ravens, Steelers and Patriots are great examples how a team should be run. Have a clear vision and mindset and don’t stir away from it. How come these teams always find talent in the draft, always find players who stick? One vision, one identity, they know exactly what players fit their scheme and identity and never devalue position. If a LB, S or CB is good and a perfect fit, they take him high. Not like the Eagles who always stir away from these positions in the first. That philosphy has cost us.

You think the Ravens regret taking Patrick Queen, C.J. Mosley or Marlon Humphrey in the first or the Steelers trading up for Devin Bush?! Nope, they got their man right there and don’t look back.

It’s time for change! A true overhaul and identity switch.

I agree, Ray.  Those teams have a set philosophy and strategy when it comes to not only building their teams, but how they operate on both sides of the ball.  That's why they have been mostly consistent when most other teams have not.  We have been picking the wrong players for our schemes and then trying to fit square pegs into round holes for the most part.  Like how we have too many WRs who are more like our TEs than the outside quick/fast deep threats we need to COMPLIMENT the big boys we have in the middle.  Like how we have all these slot CBs on the roster when we need an outside #2 CB.  And how we are completely devoid of LBs.  Throw on top of that how Howie has given big contracts to players at the wrong time in their careers, like when they are starting to decline or coming off an injury, and it's a bad recipe.  If this organization is a row boat right now then not all the oars are rowing in the same direction in the same rhythm.  

Honestly, the way we are playing right now and with the injuries, I think 6 wins is extremely optimistic.  We could beat the VaGiants twice since they're without Saquon and maybe we get a revenge win vs the WSH Team.  The only other possible wins I see right now are vs CLE and ARI and they're 50/50 at best.  Unless Gym Shortz tweaks the D and we find a LB who can play to a slightly below average level (because what we have now is way worse than that) and Doug overhauls the O to something that gets Wentz in a good rhythm and we get some key players back from injury who are able to make some positive contributions upon their return, then I'm thinking only 3 wins.  Maybe if those things fall into place then 6 wins is a possibility.  Right now, nah.

 

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24 minutes ago, Green_Guinness said:

I agree, Ray.  Those teams have a set philosophy and strategy when it comes to not only building their teams, but how they operate on both sides of the ball.  That's why they have been mostly consistent when most other teams have not.  We have been picking the wrong players for our schemes and then trying to fit square pegs into round holes for the most part.  Like how we have too many WRs who are more like our TEs than the outside quick/fast deep threats we need to COMPLIMENT the big boys we have in the middle.  Like how we have all these slot CBs on the roster when we need an outside #2 CB.  And how we are completely devoid of LBs.  Throw on top of that how Howie has given big contracts to players at the wrong time in their careers, like when they are starting to decline or coming off an injury, and it's a bad recipe.  If this organization is a row boat right now then not all the oars are rowing in the same direction in the same rhythm.  

Honestly, the way we are playing right now and with the injuries, I think 6 wins is extremely optimistic.  We could beat the VaGiants twice since they're without Saquon and maybe we get a revenge win vs the WSH Team.  The only other possible wins I see right now are vs CLE and ARI and they're 50/50 at best.  Unless Gym Shortz tweaks the D and we find a LB who can play to a slightly below average level (because what we have now is way worse than that) and Doug overhauls the O to something that gets Wentz in a good rhythm and we get some key players back from injury who are able to make some positive contributions upon their return, then I'm thinking only 3 wins.  Maybe if those things fall into place then 6 wins is a possibility.  Right now, nah.

 

And there you have it. Probably a 3 maybe 4 win team and at best a 6 win one. We’re picking in/at around the top 10 and if we clean house looking for a new coaching staff.

Last year I told my buddy UK_EaglesFan89 I wanted them to lose. What good is a division title if you’re one and done in the play-offs?! I rather have the higher draft pick! Ruggs or Lamp could have easily been an Eagle if they didn’t go on a late run.

If it’s you’re time to lose, it’s you’re time to lose! Don’t row against the stream, just go with the flow.

But what good is a top 10 pick if Howie is still calling the shots?! 

There’s disfunction and a lack of communication between FO and coaching staff and as long as Howie’s still here it will stay that way. Doesn’t matter who they’ll bring in.

The problem has always been Howie. A glorified accountant who’s good with contracts and numbers but doesn’t have any clue how to build a team nor to hit on draft picks. I bet you and I could do a better job in that departement. It’s not higher physics IMO. Watch tape, go to a couple of games, talk to coaches and the kid himself and try to envision him on the team.

I pray everything falls apart (seriously mean that), Lurie fires Howie before the end of the year and finds a great GM who’ll evaluate the entire organisation from top to bottom, trades some veterans for good return and goes into FA and the draft with some cap room and a ton of high draft picks to start the rebuild and selects good football players who perfectly fit the new identity. One who doesn’t overthink and flat out takes the best football player on the board...even if it’s a LB, S or CB.

 

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14 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Last year I told my buddy UK_EaglesFan89 I wanted them to lose. What good is a division title if you’re one and done in the play-offs?! I rather have the higher draft pick! Ruggs or Lamp could have easily been an Eagle if they didn’t go on a late run

Right there with you bud. 

Struggling to make the play offs in a weak division does this team no good in the long run. It places a positive tint on the season and gives the organisation an excuse not to make major changes. 

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On 10/1/2020 at 1:01 PM, Mike030270 said:

Rather steal Chiefs GM. They clearly know what they're doing

Next to owner, the GM position is the highest in  a teams organization, if Veach isn't going to be an owner there's no reason for him to leave KC.  BTW,  Veach began his career with The Eagles in 2004.

With the thought of the GM position being the highest in a teams organization, I present you Howie Rosman, someone who's probably never even played a down of two-hand touch...........we gotta do better.

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On 10/1/2020 at 1:01 PM, Mike030270 said:

Rather steal Chiefs GM. They clearly know what they're doing

Oddly enough I think Va is right. There's no need for Veach to leave KC. 

I think we'd be better off trying to get 

Football Operations Counsel and Personnel Executive - Chris Shea

Assistant Directors of Player Personnel - Mike Bradway, Ryan Poles

all three work for the chiefs. 

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50 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Joe Douglas sucked. I dont want anyone else from the Ravens. 

what about john dorsey?

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1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

Joe Douglas sucked. I dont want anyone else from the Ravens. 

As long as Howie is pulling the strings, no one will succeed here. I hope that one way or another Lurie will give him the sack and we’ll be looking for a new GM in january. Want a true football mind who knows how to build a team and doesn’t shy away from drafting specific positions early in the draft. But hey, that’s just me!

 

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4 hours ago, Ray75 said:

As long as Howie is pulling the strings, no one will succeed here. I hope that one way or another Lurie will give him the sack and we’ll be looking for a new GM in january. Want a true football mind who knows how to build a team and doesn’t shy away from drafting specific positions early in the draft. But hey, that’s just me!

 

I pray that Lurie wakes up and sees that the major issue here is Howie. And that whilst Howie is here our struggles will continue. 

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On 9/30/2020 at 12:11 AM, Green_Guinness said:

Interesting person for the position.  However, at this time I just don't see Lurie sacking Howie, though, since he did it once before then he might again strip away his power of overseeing personnel decisions and leave him to just managing the cap and contracts.  Even for the latter to happen I think we would have to pretty much implode this season and end up with a 3-12-1 record or worse and little to no cap space spent on aging injured players.  Maybe 4-11-1 also gets it done, but I think we'd have to have a historically bad season for Lurie's loyalty to be shaken enough to take such action.

If Howie were to be stripped of personnel control again he'd have to be removed from the organization entirely.  He doesn't have any more magic with salary cap manipulation.  Kicking the can down the road and creating void years in which to spread out bonuses to minimize cap hit is actually a piss poor strategy (as we are beginning to see with our current cap situation).  He needs to go.  But I do agree in that it is unlikely Lurie cans him without having gone through a few consecutive seasons where this team is bottom of the league.  

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Jeffrey Lurie's action or inaction will determine the fate of this team. They are currently in steep decline. Howie Roseman must go.

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Just to chime in, quickly, the Patriots have been AWFUL at drafting.  N'Keal Harry can barely get healthy.  Joejuan Williams never sees the field.  Damien Harris has 30 touches in 20 games.  Isiah Wynn has been awful and just got bumped to guard. Duke Dawson (2nd round pick!) was traded along with a 7th round pick to the Broncos for a 6th round pick A YEAR LATER.  Derek Rivers had a couple sacks before suffering a few serious injuries.  Cyrus Jones has been out of football after bouncing around from practice squad to practice squad after 2 years.  Jacoby Brissett is a backup on another team.  Vincent Valentine is out of football already. Dominique Easley had 6.5 sacks in his career before washing out. Jordan Richards isn't even with the team anymore and played 2 snaps for the Ravens.

Of their draft picks in the first three rounds dating back to 2015, four players in the top half of the draft have panned out.  DT Malcom Brown played very well and got a free agent contract with the Saints, Joe Thuney is a top NFL OG,  Sony Michel is a legit #1 RB, and the jury is still out on N'Keal Harry. That's 4ish hits out of 15 players and one of them is not even on the team any more.  Kyle Dugger is their only 2020 draft pick to even play regularly.  

2012-2013 was their last stretch of getting 2 or more quality players from the top of the draft.  Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, Duron Harmon, Chandler Jones, Dont'a Hightower all came from those two years. Some legit stars there. Beyond that, they've been TRASH with 1st and 2nd round picks.   Oh, and like the Eagles, they drafted Garoppolo with a star QB on the roster... in 2014 lol.  Tom Brady was on the team longer than Jimmy was. 

 

Just saying. They're not great at drafting. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

@brkmsn Here is a place you can whine all you like about how you disapprove of these GM options. Maybe you could add your own options too if you like though I know you love you some stale old Roseman. 

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1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

@brkmsn Here is a place you can whine all you like about how you disapprove of these GM options. Maybe you could add your own options too if you like though I know you love you some stale old Roseman. 

I've never liked that argument either. I've heard it so many times in so many sports. "Who else are they supposed to get?" Or "who else is out there that they can bring in?". I don't know, it isn't my job to know. What we do know is that this guy or that guy aren't doing a good job so let's not stick with this. 

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4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I've never liked that argument either. I've heard it so many times in so many sports. "Who else are they supposed to get?" Or "who else is out there that they can bring in?". I don't know, it isn't my job to know. What we do know is that this guy or that guy aren't doing a good job so let's not stick with this. 

It’s a silly attempt by small people to act snobbish on the internet. They ASSume they know what’s best, but often they’re just followers. They don’t really have an opinion other than to complain about other people and their opinions and they follow the company line. If they want to be that way then maybe they shouldn’t come here. "How dare people express their opinions!” That’s how these guys act. 

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2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s a silly attempt by small people to act snobbish on the internet. They ASSume they know what’s best, but often they’re just followers. They don’t really have an opinion other than to complain about other people and their opinions and they follow the company line. If they want to be that way then maybe they shouldn’t come here. "How dare people express their opinions!” That’s how these guys act. 

It isn't even an Internet thing in my experience. I've heard the same arguments for a long long time now. Just because there may not be an obvious alternative out there doesn't mean there isn't a better option. Doesn't mean stick with the guy who's not doing a good job. 

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2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

It isn't even an Internet thing in my experience. I've heard the same arguments for a long long time now. Just because there may not be an obvious alternative out there doesn't mean there isn't a better option. Doesn't mean stick with the guy who's not doing a good job. 

Like any of these people knew who Howie even was before he got the job. Also people universally applauded Chip Kelly and he turned out to be horrible. Conversely many people hated the hiring of Doug and he won the Super Bowl. You can’t keep doing the same thing, because you’re afraid what the next option will be. Rich Kotite would still be here with that backwards logic. 

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Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Like any of these people knew who Howie even was before he got the job. Also people universally applauded Chip Kelly and he turned out to be horrible. Conversely many people hated the hiring of Doug and he won the Super Bowl. You can’t keep doing the same thing, because you’re afraid what the next option will be. Rich Kotite would still be here with that backwards logic. 

I like the idea of bringing in a guy like Daniel Jeremiah I really do. I think he'd bring in fresh ideas and he'd bring a different approach. That doesn't mean it would work out. That doesn't mean it would be a success but I like the idea of it. 

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