This team deserves credit.

[NOTW]

If they lose the next 2 games against tough teams they will be 1-4-1 which is awful.  Then if they win a game against the stinking Giants fans will come out of the woodworks like "see, where are the haters, they won a game!"

If you grade a team after each quarter of games this is a bad team right now.  Tied with last year's worst team, and the solid team they played destroyed them.  After the next 4 games we'll know if they have what it takes to compete the rest of this season or if it looks like they're a basement team.

[GeorgeM37]

32 minutes ago, NOTW said:

If they lose the next 2 games against tough teams they will be 1-4-1 which is awful.  Then if they win a game against the stinking Giants fans will come out of the woodworks like "see, where are the haters, they won a game!"

If you grade a team after each quarter of games this is a bad team right now.  Tied with last year's worst team, and the solid team they played destroyed them.  After the next 4 games we'll know if they have what it takes to compete the rest of this season or if it looks like they're a basement team.

Agreed. I DO know that just like some of us have suspected, the play calling is a major part of the problem. Doug still refuses to run even though Sanders averages almost 5 yds per carry....and then there is this article which points out something as well:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/surprising-reason-miles-sanders-wasnt-174239181.html

Why Doug WHY??? 

[Talonblood]

I usually bitc* the most when I see no effort or heart. With all those players out, it would have been easy to just mail this one in. The fight they ALL showed is impressive. What happens after this, I do not know, but THIS game... the heart and the fight made me cheer them on. Keep it going.

[Talonblood]

6 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

Look at what you just said. No starters. Linemen getting abused. Run stuffed. And with all that Wentz was able to get a come from behind win in the 4th quarter. Stats were not amazing but who cares? He made the plays to win a underdog come from behind road game. Good performance in my book.

I lost my sh** with Wentz this year, but I agree with you here. He found a way to stay within himself and win this game. He led with heart and will, and his team mates saw that and followed their leader. And that 42 yarder? Perfect drop in the bucket TD pass. 

[NOTW]

4 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

I usually bitc* the most when I see no effort or heart. With all those players out, it would have been easy to just mail this one in. The fight they ALL showed is impressive. What happens after this, I do not know, but THIS game... the heart and the fight made me cheer them on. Keep it going.

They seem to perform when they have lost a bunch of games, half the roster is injured and they whine about being disrespected despite the fact their on-field performance sucks.  Then they finally have a good game or two, then talk about "haters" and believing in themselves to keep fighting...

...why does this happen every year though?  Why can't they believe in themselves and fight all the time?  Why does Wentz perform better with practice squad scrubs than the starting playmakers?  Why do the coaches get better with playcalling when they're desperate instead of preparing like that all the time?

[Talonblood]

11 minutes ago, NOTW said:

They seem to perform when they have lost a bunch of games, half the roster is injured and they whine about being disrespected despite the fact their on-field performance sucks.  Then they finally have a good game or two, then talk about "haters" and believing in themselves to keep fighting...

...why does this happen every year though?  Why can't they believe in themselves and fight all the time?  Why does Wentz perform better with practice squad scrubs than the starting playmakers?  Why do the coaches get better with playcalling when they're desperate instead of preparing like that all the time?

All great questions. Not sure what the answer is with this team/org. Seriously, why not just come out with a winner's attitude and fight that way? I guess they can't take the "pressure" of being EXPECTED to win- they need people to EXPECT them to LOSE instead, because there is less pressure. Go figure.

[NOTW]

1 minute ago, Talonblood said:

All great questions. Not sure what the answer is with this team/org. Seriously, why not just come out with a winner's attitude and fight that way? I guess they can't take the "pressure" of being EXPECTED to win- they need people to EXPECT them to LOSE instead, because there is less pressure. Go figure.

I think they believe their own hype ever since the Super Bowl.  And they did win a playoff game the year after.  Last year I think they got hyped up because DeSean Jackson had his one good game of 2 seasons and the offense played great.  They seem to be cocky, practicing their celebrations for after plays and living on their past but 2017 might as well be a decade ago in today's NFL.  They need to find a way to enter a season with that kind of passion and focus early.  You have to beat the teams you're supposed to beat, control your own outcome with regard to making better decisions, not turning the ball over, not hurting yourself with penalties and mental mistakes.  They are often sloppy and mistake-prone.  Then they complain about "haters."  They need to take care of their own business.

[Dawkamania06]

11 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Agreed - Carson was good not great. Came up with some clutch throws and scrambles. Still too many inaccurate throws and still held the ball too long at times.

Overall positive step in the right direction. He still needs to be better. Hopefully this is a step.

If he has more good not great games but comes through in the clutch like he did last night I think most of us could live with that. 

[Traveler Vic]

16 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

Did you miss his pick 6? Point is QBs are still throwing bad passes. there was zero preseason, very limited offseason/camp. Takes time for QB/recs to get on the same page. Esp ones that never played with each other before. Brady was the only QB who broke out and tech had a camp with his recs for over a month so he should be more in sync then anyone. But he still has bad throws. 

Being a Great QB is not just about throws..it is about decision making. And sometimes Carson's decisions, inability to see the field, and regressing is exactly what everyone is questioning. Years of poor mechanics and throwing the ball off target and into the ground does not help. Wentz may have peaked...? I wish we could bring Al Groh or someone like him as a QB coach.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

17 hours ago, greend said:

without him playing "hero ball" we don't win last night. Truth is once again we have crap for weapons and without the "hero ball" we have no chance.

Again the weapons are irrelevant if the QB can't hit them, as I've said before an inaccurately thrown ball is inaccurate whether it's 2 ft behind Calvin Johnson or 3 ft over Greg Ward.

It's not lack of weapons, it's lack of accuracy and lack of trust, Wentz wants more separation than almost any QB in the league before he'll toss one out along the sideline, sometimes you have to just give your guy the opportunity to get it, in the past Wentz was keeping his ints down by playing percentage ball, now he isn't because he's constantly trying to force the ball to like 3 guys who are in between the hashes on 95% of plays.

 

[greend]

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Again the weapons are irrelevant if the QB can't hit them, as I've said before an inaccurately thrown ball is inaccurate whether it's 2 ft behind Calvin Johnson or 3 ft over Greg Ward.

It's not lack of weapons, it's lack of accuracy and lack of trust, Wentz wants more separation than almost any QB in the league before he'll toss one out along the sideline, sometimes you have to just give your guy the opportunity to get it, in the past Wentz was keeping his ints down by playing percentage ball, now he isn't because he's constantly trying to force the ball to like 3 guys who are in between the hashes on 95% of plays.

 

Lack of weapons leads to lack of trust. Also you can't say in the same sentence he wants more separation than any other qb in the league (which you have no basis to say) as a criticism and then say that he forces it to other guys. Your whole argument in these paragraphs contradicts itself.

Again, without him playing "hero ball" we don't win. Greg Ward is our number one receiver right now, let that sink in before you guys criticize a guy that's holding onto the ball too long and running around trying to be a "hero".

[UK_EaglesFan89]

55 minutes ago, greend said:

Lack of weapons leads to lack of trust. Also you can't say in the same sentence he wants more separation than any other qb in the league (which you have no basis to say) as a criticism and then say that he forces it to other guys. Your whole argument in these paragraphs contradicts itself.

Again, without him playing "hero ball" we don't win. Greg Ward is our number one receiver right now, let that sink in before you guys criticize a guy that's holding onto the ball too long and running around trying to be a "hero".

See I do agree with most of this but it does seem to me that actually Wentz will trust the younger guys more than players like Jeffrey and Jackson and to some extent JJAW. I think he's one of these who may trust someone until they let him down but once that trust is gone it is hard for him to get that trust back.

Just seems odd that his best football in the last year has come when he is down to the PS receivers.

[greend]

16 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

See I do agree with most of this but it does seem to me that actually Wentz will trust the younger guys more than players like Jeffrey and Jackson and to some extent JJAW. I think he's one of these who may trust someone until they let him down but once that trust is gone it is hard for him to get that trust back.

Just seems odd that his best football in the last year has come when he is down to the PS receivers.

Because in the past two seasons (this one and last one) that's pretty much all he has had. 

[NCTANK]

35 minutes ago, greend said:

Because in the past two seasons (this one and last one) that's pretty much all he has had. 

tanking for Trevor will fix all of this.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

3 hours ago, greend said:

Lack of weapons leads to lack of trust. Also you can't say in the same sentence he wants more separation than any other qb in the league (which you have no basis to say) as a criticism and then say that he forces it to other guys. Your whole argument in these paragraphs contradicts itself.

Again, without him playing "hero ball" we don't win. Greg Ward is our number one receiver right now, let that sink in before you guys criticize a guy that's holding onto the ball too long and running around trying to be a "hero".

its not a contradiction, he needs to see clear air separation on the outside or else he forces it to Ertz or a slot guy 5-10 yards over the middle regardless of coverage, if you can't see that I can't make you.  We throw long bombs on blown coverages or if the receivers is two feet in front of the corner and pulling away even then 9 times out of 10 the ball is going to be overthrown by a good yard, sure your pick numbers look good but eventually d coordinators recognise your tendencies and make the underneath stuff harder to complete and disguise coverages at the back end, especially if your OC calls essentially the same plays for 5 years

Previous years he could get away with this by being accurate, but as his mechanics and footwork degenerate the throws over the middle are going behind, or high, or they lead the receiver into a neckbreaker, or they have just that little bit too much mustard for no good reason, and we're left blaming the receivers because apparently you can't ask a guy to work on fundamentals just because you pay him tens of millions of dollars.

[wyote]

Still not a good team. 

If they were healthy, they would be very good, but if this, if that, I'd be a hall-of-fame QB myself. 

 

 

 

[greend]

18 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

its not a contradiction, he needs to see clear air separation on the outside or else he forces it to Ertz or a slot guy 5-10 yards over the middle regardless of coverage, if you can't see that I can't make you.  We throw long bombs on blown coverages or if the receivers is two feet in front of the corner and pulling away even then 9 times out of 10 the ball is going to be overthrown by a good yard, sure your pick numbers look good but eventually d coordinators recognise your tendencies and make the underneath stuff harder to complete and disguise coverages at the back end, especially if your OC calls essentially the same plays for 5 years

Previous years he could get away with this by being accurate, but as his mechanics and footwork degenerate the throws over the middle are going behind, or high, or they lead the receiver into a neckbreaker, or they have just that little bit too much mustard for no good reason, and we're left blaming the receivers because apparently you can't ask a guy to work on fundamentals just because you pay him tens of millions of dollars.

We'll just disagree. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 hours ago, greend said:

Because in the past two seasons (this one and last one) that's pretty much all he has had. 

Right... Doesn't explain why he's played better with those guys as opposed to when he's had Jeffery and / or Jackson though. 

[greend]

36 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Right... Doesn't explain why he's played better with those guys as opposed to when he's had Jeffery and / or Jackson though. 

I don't think he has. 2017 with Smith, Alson, Ertz , and Aggie (when Aggie played well) was his best year. Since then he's played well with less offense (IMO) But last year when everyone went down it took several games for it to sort itself out. 

[QBhunter58]

21 hours ago, Talonblood said:

All great questions. Not sure what the answer is with this team/org. Seriously, why not just come out with a winner's attitude and fight that way? I guess they can't take the "pressure" of being EXPECTED to win- they need people to EXPECT them to LOSE instead, because there is less pressure. Go figure.

yeah I picked a win this week for that reason. 

[Vileborg]

13 hours ago, NCTANK said:

tanking for Trevor will fix all of this.

Well we're a 1/4 of the way through the season at 1-2-1 so if we stay on pace we'll finish 4-8-4, win the division and get a home playoff game. i digress.

[Vileborg]

You know we're starting horrible and I expect they'll get it going at some point. The best part about this season is that as bad as we are our rivals are worse. I don't listen to Steven A. but i thoroughly enjoyed his glee at the meltdown that is Cowboy nation after giving up 49 to the Browns with over 300+ yards rushing.