"Eagles Respond to Bombshell ‘It Could All Be Blown Up’ Report"

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 minutes ago, wyote said:

I mean you're clearly the smartest man in the room, not Howie. You see all of this perfectly, but he's just a complete dope who doesn't even know as much as an ordinary fan like you. 

Send your resume to Lurie, man. Maybe a record of your recommendations here on TATE if that's all you've got. When he sees how much better you are at this than Howie, you'll get that job. 

Shut up. Please shut up. You talk rubbish. I have my opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right but doesn't mean I'm wrong. So please just stop. 

[wyote]

8 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Shut up. Please shut up. You talk rubbish. I have my opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right but doesn't mean I'm wrong. So please just stop. 

Seriously. If your opinion is worth so much, make something of it. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 minutes ago, wyote said:

Seriously. If your opinion is worth so much, make something of it. 

Just pipe down. Leave it out. You talk rubbish. We are all fans and most of us have our own views on things. 

[wyote]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Just pipe down. Leave it out. You talk rubbish. We are all fans and most of us have our own views on things. 

You seem to think that being a fan means being an armchair GM. 

I guess that's why home field is usually an advantage in sports. All those GMs in the stands. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 minutes ago, wyote said:

You seem to think that being a fan means being an armchair GM. 

I guess that's why home field is usually an advantage in sports. All those GMs in the stands. 

No being a fan means having an opinion. It means when you see things you like then you comment, when you see things you don't you comment. But hey you're just a silent fan and that's fine. Just be a lot more silent please. 

[wyote]

14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

No being a fan means having an opinion. It means when you see things you like then you comment, when you see things you don't you comment. But hey you're just a silent fan and that's fine. Just be a lot more silent please. 

Having an opinion, I guess if that's really your thing, but is there anything to be said for knowing that you don't have nearly as much information as the people actually making the decisions you're opining about? 

And above all, is there anything to be said for weighing whether the way you share your opinions contributes to the success or failure of the team you claim to support? 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

23 minutes ago, wyote said:

Having an opinion, I guess if that's really your thing, but is there anything to be said for knowing that you don't have nearly as much information as the people actually making the decisions you're opining about? 

And above all, is there anything to be said for weighing whether the way you share your opinions contributes to the success or failure of the team you claim to support? 

I've said it a few times now. Shut. Up. Just leave it be. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. 

[wyote]

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I've said it a few times now. Shut. Up. Just leave it be. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. 

I know we don't agree. Aren't you here to debate opinions?  

There's no reason to be upset. I can't stop you from doing what you do, but I'm not going to let you pretend that you're not intentionally choosing to add to the obstacles the players and coaches and everyone else in the organization have to overcome. 

 

[nipples]

Here is what I would like to see from right now through the start of next season. 
 

Bench Wentz and go with Hurts. See if he shows promise to potentially be a starter in this league. 
 

They’ll still lose at least 4 more games this season doing this but in the process find out if we have our QB. And we would likely be picking somewhere around 5th in the draft. 
 

Fire Howie and Doug (and the rest of the coaches, including Schwartz) at the end of the season. Don’t know who to replace Howie with, but I’d try to replace Doug with Bienemy. Do what it takes to trade Wentz to Indy.

Let Bienemy work with Hurts if he shows enough down the stretch, if not then try to get Fields with that high draft pick. If they do go with Hurts instead of drafting a QB, then go either CB, LB or WR there. 

[time2rock]

17 hours ago, nipples said:

Here is what I would like to see from right now through the start of next season. 
 

Bench Wentz and go with Hurts. See if he shows promise to potentially be a starter in this league. 
 

They’ll still lose at least 4 more games this season doing this but in the process find out if we have our QB. And we would likely be picking somewhere around 5th in the draft. 
 

Fire Howie and Doug (and the rest of the coaches, including Schwartz) at the end of the season. Don’t know who to replace Howie with, but I’d try to replace Doug with Bienemy. Do what it takes to trade Wentz to Indy.

Let Bienemy work with Hurts if he shows enough down the stretch, if not then try to get Fields with that high draft pick. If they do go with Hurts instead of drafting a QB, then go either CB, LB or WR there. 

We thought we had our QB after a full season (and then some) with Wentz.  What makes you think we’d know what we have in Hurts in only 6 games?  

And honestly I wouldn't want Bienemy ... no more from the AR tree.  Maybe Indy’s DC Matt Eberflus would be a decent candidate.  He’s someone that will hold his players accountable.  If you aren’t doing your job you won’t see the field.  But honestly, I don’t see either Howie or Doug going anywhere yet ... that Lombardi bought them a longer leash than they deserve.  

[PoconoDon]

On 11/22/2020 at 2:21 PM, wyote said:

You seem to think that being a fan means being an armchair GM. 

I guess that's why home field is usually an advantage in sports. All those GMs in the stands. 

You seem to think that sports management is akin to theoretical physics requiring multiple Phds.

It's just a game. Nothing more. Oh, and all fans' opinions are as valid as yours is. 

[wyote]

17 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

You seem to think that sports management is akin to theoretical physics requiring multiple Phds.

It's just a game. Nothing more. Oh, and all fans' opinions are as valid as yours is. 

Even if Howie, Doug, Jeff, and others involved in the decisions knew as little about football as most of the fans, they'd still have lots of information that we don't. 

So all those fans' opinions are as INVALID as mine would be, if I were here trying to argue for who should be cut, fired, traded, drafted, whatever; which coaches or executives are responsible for various decisions; what the game plans ought to be and what plays ought to be called, and so on.

I actually probably know more about theoretical physics than any of us do about what went on in the room when the decision was made to draft JJAW rather than DK. But there is a reason I'm not on some message board arguing that Edward Witten needs to be fired. 

 

[EagleJoe8]

On 11/22/2020 at 2:21 PM, wyote said:

You seem to think that being a fan means being an armchair GM. 

I guess that's why home field is usually an advantage in sports. All those GMs in the stands. 

And you seem to think being a fan means being a mindless sheep. You’ve been on some soapbox making a total ass of yourself for some time now, and for what? This is a forum for fans to discuss the team and ideas good or bad. You seem to think it has an effect on the team. All I can say about that is if the team is reading this site and actually concerning themselves with the things we say, then we’ve figured out a big part of the reason they’re 3-6-1 currently and trending downwards. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

10 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

And you seem to think being a fan means being a mindless sheep. You’ve been on some soapbox making a total ass of yourself for some time now, and for what? This is a forum for fans to discuss the team and ideas good or bad. You seem to think it has an effect on the team. All I can say about that is if the team is reading this site and actually concerning themselves with the things we say, then we’ve figured out a big part of the reason they’re 3-6-1 currently and trending downwards. 

I wouldn't even engage bud. I did, I tried but there's no getting through to this particular individual. 

[time2rock]

26 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I wouldn't even engage bud. I did, I tried but there's no getting through to this particular individual. 

There really shouldn't be any reason to - everyone has a right to their own opinion.  For both sides, there shouldn't be a need to try to shove that opinion down the other's throat.  If someone continually tries, just ignore them (vs reacting by trying to shove yours down his/her throat)... as simple as that.  it takes all kinds to make the world go round.   

[EagleJoe8]

31 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I wouldn't even engage bud. I did, I tried but there's no getting through to this particular individual. 

Oh I know. I’ve had my bouts with him before. Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment. 
 

I must be. I make a point to watch this team every week. 

[time2rock]

28 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Oh I know. I’ve had my bouts with him before. Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment. 
 

I must be. I make a point to watch this team every week. 

Same here.  But I've become rather despondent when I watch these days - I no longer scare the dog by yelling out when they do something stupid (a good thing because I'd be yelling for practically the entire 3 hours and wouldn't have a voice left to sing!  haha).  

[EagleJoe8]

7 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Same here.  But I've become rather despondent when I watch these days - I no longer scare the dog by yelling out when they do something stupid (a good thing because I'd be yelling for practically the entire 3 hours and wouldn't have a voice left to sing!  haha).  

Truth be told, I don’t get overly excited for good plays either. I guess it’s because I don’t feel it’s going to lead to anything good. 

[time2rock]

1 minute ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Truth be told, I don’t get overly excited for good plays either. I guess it’s because I don’t feel it’s going to lead to anything good. 

And the "good plays" aren't anything tremendously exciting any more.  They used to be a result of good play design and scheme ... these days they are more a result of sheer luck than anything.  The offense as a whole has become quite boring and uncreative (it goes way beyond Wentz's struggles).  

[EagleJoe8]

1 minute ago, time2rock said:

And the "good plays" aren't anything tremendously exciting any more.  They used to be a result of good play design and scheme ... these days they are more a result of sheer luck than anything.  The offense as a whole has become quite boring and uncreative (it goes way beyond Wentz's struggles).  

Absolutely. This is a mess top to bottom. 

[flyerdog]

On 11/19/2020 at 2:27 PM, CaliEagle said:

This offensive structure is a problem. Too many voices and no direction. It looks the same.  They need to streamline it down to: head coach, offensive coordinator and QB coach.  I think bringing in Marty because he has familiarity with LamarJackson was a dumb reason to bring him in.  It seems like it was done more as a favor.

nailed it....having  skilled experienced people to consult with his OK, however, ultimately what tends to happen is power struggles, lack of communication and often loss of identity because everyone wants to put their stamp on the team....

[wyote]

2 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

And you seem to think being a fan means being a mindless sheep. You’ve been on some soapbox making a total ass of yourself for some time now, and for what? This is a forum for fans to discuss the team and ideas good or bad. You seem to think it has an effect on the team. All I can say about that is if the team is reading this site and actually concerning themselves with the things we say, then we’ve figured out a big part of the reason they’re 3-6-1 currently and trending downwards. 

Knowing the limits of my own knowledge -- and of yours, and of the rest of TATE -- is not the same as "being a mindless sheep."  

TATE probably doesn't directly affect anyone on the team very often, but collectively the fans have a huge impact, both by being physically present and loud during games and by amplifying media narratives that create distractions or even obstacles for them. This means that even you and I bear some -- admittedly, very tiny -- responsibility for helping the team succeed. 

So there are two things going on: I know how little we know, while you and your buddies here think you're about as well-informed as Jeff Lurie, and I'm willing to take responsibility for the effect my actions have on the fan base and the team, while you and your buddies want to pretend your temper tantrums don't matter, because apparently you don't know what you'd do as fans if you didn't have temper tantrums and argue about who should be the scapegoats. 

[EagleJoe8]

3 minutes ago, wyote said:

Knowing the limits of my own knowledge -- and of yours, and of the rest of TATE -- is not the same as "being a mindless sheep."  

TATE probably doesn't directly affect anyone on the team very often, but collectively the fans have a huge impact, both by being physically present and loud during games and by amplifying media narratives that create distractions or even obstacles for them. This means that even you and I bear some -- admittedly, very tiny -- responsibility for helping the team succeed. 

So there are two things going on: I know how little we know, while you and your buddies here think you're about as well-informed as Jeff Lurie, and I'm willing to take responsibility for the effect my actions have on the fan base and the team, while you and your buddies want to pretend your temper tantrums don't matter, because apparently you don't know what you'd do as fans if you didn't have temper tantrums and argue about who should be the scapegoats. 

Has nothing to do with being as informed as Lurie. Has to do with understanding responsibility. Howie is the GM. He is in charge of the roster and of those who help construct the roster. I know you’ve tried being slick saying we don’t know who wanted to get which player, but the thing is, this roster is very flawed. Howie has final say. He’s either picking the wrong guys, or he’s supporting those who keep picking the wrong guys. Either way it falls on Howie, so either way, he should go. 

[wyote]

1 minute ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Has nothing to do with being as informed as Lurie. Has to do with understanding responsibility. Howie is the GM. He is in charge of the roster and of those who help construct the roster. I know you’ve tried being slick saying we don’t know who wanted to get which player, but the thing is, this roster is very flawed. Howie has final say. He’s either picking the wrong guys, or he’s supporting those who keep picking the wrong guys. Either way it falls on Howie, so either way, he should go. 

This has nothing to do with the post you quoted. I'm not talking about Howie or the roster. Maybe the roster's as bad as it looks, maybe not. Maybe it's even worse. Maybe he should be fired. Maybe he's the only one who should be fired, or one of many. 

I've got no idea, and there's no way for me to find out what I'd need to know to make that judgment. 

Jeffrey Lurie has won my loyalty. The Eagles have a winning record under his leadership, we have won more than our share of division titles and playoff games, been to the Super Bowl and won it just a little more often than we have a right to expect. He's transformed the organization and to some extent the culture of the fans. If he says Howie (or Doug or Jim or whoever) should go, I'll support that. If he says they should stay, I'll support that. I'll support whoever's here as long as they're here. 

I am a little worried that Lurie has started listening to the fans too much since the Super Bowl, but that's just a suspicion, and even if it's true, I think he'll self-correct. 

But that's neither here nor there. 

What I'm talking about is fundamentally about what kind of fan, and man, you want to be. About the virtues or vices you choose to evince.

Humility or bluster?

Loyalty or betrayal?

Unwavering perseverance through thick and thin, or vacillation between unreasonable confidence and pathetic willingness to surrender? 

When you read the game threads, and the rest of TATE, and listen to WIP, and read the "analysis" produced by the guys who cover the team, what do you see? Is there a lot of Rocky in there? 

[EagleJoe8]

5 minutes ago, wyote said:

This has nothing to do with the post you quoted. I'm not talking about Howie or the roster. Maybe the roster's as bad as it looks, maybe not. Maybe it's even worse. Maybe he should be fired. Maybe he's the only one who should be fired, or one of many. 

I've got no idea, and there's no way for me to find out what I'd need to know to make that judgment. 

Jeffrey Lurie has won my loyalty. The Eagles have a winning record under his leadership, we have won more than our share of division titles and playoff games, been to the Super Bowl and won it just a little more often than we have a right to expect. He's transformed the organization and to some extent the culture of the fans. If he says Howie (or Doug or Jim or whoever) should go, I'll support that. If he says they should stay, I'll support that. I'll support whoever's here as long as they're here. 

I am a little worried that Lurie has started listening to the fans too much since the Super Bowl, but that's just a suspicion, and even if it's true, I think he'll self-correct. 

But that's neither here nor there. 

What I'm talking about is fundamentally about what kind of fan, and man, you want to be. About the virtues or vices you choose to evince.

Humility or bluster?

Loyalty or betrayal?

Unwavering perseverance through thick and thin, or vacillation between unreasonable confidence and pathetic willingness to surrender? 

When you read the game threads, and the rest of TATE, and listen to WIP, and read the "analysis" produced by the guys who cover the team, what do you see? Is there a lot of Rocky in there? 

I see all kinds of things. Blind loyalists, those who think nothing was ever good, and those who clearly recognize things are terrible right now, and certain changes need to be made. I see a roster of mostly...meh...type players. A few good ones, but a lot of junk and almost no difference makers. I see cap struggles coming up. I see no one currently here who can effectively turn this around.