I only blame Doug for 1 thing...

[DBW]

I could understand if we had a new offense and wentz struggled like A-A-Ron did at first with new coaches, but 5 years into this system and he still doesn’t get it.  He’s almost over thinking it.  Paralysis by analysis is another way of looking at it.  They need to simplify the offense a bit.  Start running 3 step drops with slants and quick hit passes.  Don’t try these complicated routes that take 8 seconds to develop because the o line can’t block for more than 4 seconds anyway.  Etc

dumb it down.  That’s how they won with foles.  It’s just as much dougs stubbornness to not change the offense as it is wentz for not taking the easy stuff.  

[315Eagles]

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Doug is going to get himself fired for Wentz it's as simple as that. 

Maybe it's not up to him if Wentz is benched.

Does Howie make that call?  Idk.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

38 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Maybe it's not up to him if Wentz is benched.

Does Howie make that call?  Idk.

I think it's probably Doug, Howie and Lurie. It's a big decision to make so game to game I'm not sure it should be down to one person. In game though I think Doug should have the power. 

[Portyansky]

4 hours ago, CaliEagle said:

What about Peters?  

That too. But it makes me think... I wonder if DP is trying to stick it to Howie. Oh you paid Wentz... gonna play him. Oh you paid Peters... gonna play him at LT.

[Bwestbrook36]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think it's probably Doug, Howie and Lurie. It's a big decision to make so game to game I'm not sure it should be down to one person. In game though I think Doug should have the power. 

My statement isn't just about the benching of Wentz Doug is going to be the scapegoat in any scenario doesn't matter who has say in him getting benched.

If it's Doug's call and he isn't doing it and keeps letting Wentz go out there playing like crap they'll blame Doug for letting it continue. 

If it's Howie's call and doesn't want him benched Doug is getting the blame for Wentz regression and not fixing the issue.

If Doug goes to Howie and says he wants him benched and Howie okays it and it blows up in his face again that will fall on Doug. 

Don't understand this freaking need to know who to point the finger at who the F cares. The whole organization failed from the very top down to the ignorant ass players. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

54 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Don't understand this freaking need to know who to point the finger at who the F cares. The whole organization failed from the very top down to the ignorant ass players. 

One of the truest posts I've seen in a while. This whole organisation needs to take a long hard look at itself in the mirror. 

[brkmsn]

4 hours ago, Madriver said:

Depends on what you mean the benching was for. Performance? Health? The only one that vaguely comes close was the benching of Steve Young in the game in which we pounded them 40-8, but that was because he was getting physically mauled by our defense. He complained bitterly about being pulled but they went on the win a SB that year. Maybe his anger at being benched motivated him to improve and the team responded?

Being replaced for garbage time in a blowout (win or loss) is not really a benching.

4 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Mcnabb 2008? We went to the NFCCG and he was playing much better. Or do you mean more long term than that

I think that move only adds to my point --- Once you make that move, it means the union has been dissolved and the team has no choice but to move on from the player. McNabb was traded after one more season even though we didn't have an established replacement. There is no salvaging Wentz as an Eagle if you bench him. Doug would be betting his own future as an NFL head coach that Hurts would come in and things would improve. We have seen Wentz play better, but know nothing about Hurts. Wentz is the safer bet for Doug and, I believe, the correct choice for Doug. 

There have been a lot of disappointing moments from Wentz this season, but when I look at last week's game, I don't see a "benchable" performance. People are just upset that he isn't responding with better performances. I look at 2020 as a "growing year" at this point for the offense. Some of the young offensive linemen are showing promise, we have a young group of WRs and people are getting valuable lessons. When we win, it isn't pretty and when we lose, it's even less pretty. We need some stability and patience to get things right. If players continue to get hurt, there won't be any stability. The same goes if we start benching everybody. 

[315Eagles]

5 hours ago, DBW said:

I could understand if we had a new offense and wentz struggled like A-A-Ron did at first with new coaches, but 5 years into this system and he still doesn’t get it.  He’s almost over thinking it.  Paralysis by analysis is another way of looking at it.  They need to simplify the offense a bit.  Start running 3 step drops with slants and quick hit passes.  Don’t try these complicated routes that take 8 seconds to develop because the o line can’t block for more than 4 seconds anyway.  Etc

dumb it down.  That’s how they won with foles.  It’s just as much dougs stubbornness to not change the offense as it is wentz for not taking the easy stuff.  

There was a report that Doug and the coaches have been putting in pass plays where Wentz has a quick first read to get the ball out quickly.  Not sure how true but it doesnt seem like it's been helping.

[SNOORDA]

7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

The way I see it, once a coach makes a decision to bench a franchise QB, there is no recovery for things to work out for the team and that player. Maybe some of you can remind me of an example I'm missing here where that action proved to help the dynamic between the benched QB and the team moving forward. A coach will usually stick with his guy as long as he can, but once the move is made, that move will always be on the table each week moving forward. Players will begin to take sides and the only way to fix that is to move one of the "options."

Let me be clear ... I am in no way defending Wentz' mistakes this season. I do think he has a long, productive career ahead of him in the NFL. I'm only saying that once you choose to bench him here, his days here are numbered. It won't make him a better QB for us. It just means we are forcing the decision to move on. 

Would I bench him? No. Personally, once the 2020 season is over, I'm willing to burn the memories. 

Their (howie) the ones who drafted a qb in the 2nd rnd.  Of course fans are going to want to see what hurts has when the starter is in the mix for worst qb in the nfl over 11 weeks. 
 

Money aside, wentz would be benched 9x out of 10.  
 

Wts i dont know what i would do as HC but i would certainly be running the ball more and rolling wentz out more and would have peters on the bench as much as possible.  And be all up in wentz’s ass too and not be shy about it

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, SNOORDA said:

Their (howie) the ones who drafted a qb in the 2nd rnd.  Of course fans are going to want to see what hurts has when the starter is in the mix for worst qb in the nfl over 11 weeks. 

Yeah I mean this is the situation that Howie created when he made that pick. 

[SNOORDA]

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah I mean this is the situation that Howie created when he made that pick. 

Drafting a qb in 2nd when your franchise qb is just a few years in is asking for trouble.  And i like hurts game.
 

  But it makes things complicated when your franchise qb is as fragile (in more ways than one it would seem) as wentz is

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Drafting a qb in 2nd when your franchise qb is just a few years in is asking for trouble.  And i like hurts game.
 

  But it makes things complicated when your franchise qb is as fragile (in more ways than one it would seem) as wentz is

Its asking for trouble given what happened in 2017 and to a lesser extent 2018. Its asking for trouble when the starter who you just paid has the injury record that Wentz does. This was always going to be the way it was going to go if Wentz struggled. 

[DBW]

1 hour ago, SNOORDA said:

Drafting a qb in 2nd when your franchise qb is just a few years in is asking for trouble.  And i like hurts game.
 

  But it makes things complicated when your franchise qb is as fragile (in more ways than one it would seem) as wentz is

I don’t think they drafted hurts with the intention of him being a replacement or plan B.  And i don’t think he even knows the offense well enough to try right now.  Think about it, he wasnt a great passer in college, he had zero camp, zero preseason, didn’t even dress until like the 3rd game(?), and you haven’t seen him attempt a throw except the stupid screen crap back to wentz or a tight end behind the LoS.  If he knew the offense even a little bit, doug might have pulled wentz.  But it’s clear he’s only in for packages they run just for him ala taysom hill in NO. Look at what Taysom did in the game he was forced to start, basically ran the ball all night and made some basic throws.  And NO dressed him along with jameis even when all qbs were healthy. Doug can’t dress Nate and hurts and Carson because they have too many injuries all over the roster, otherwise Nate would be the true backup and hurts would just be another weapon. But because he’s listed as a qb and dressed people assume he’s the backup and could just jump right in to start any day now.   Never gonna happen.  He hasn’t had time to learn the offense to start and god forbid he had to enter a game, we’d be totally screwed. 

[SNOORDA]

42 minutes ago, DBW said:

I don’t think they drafted hurts with the intention of him being a replacement or plan B.  And i don’t think he even knows the offense well enough to try right now.  Think about it, he wasnt a great passer in college, he had zero camp, zero preseason, didn’t even dress until like the 3rd game(?), and you haven’t seen him attempt a throw except the stupid screen crap back to wentz or a tight end behind the LoS.  If he knew the offense even a little bit, doug might have pulled wentz.  But it’s clear he’s only in for packages they run just for him ala taysom hill in NO. Look at what Taysom did in the game he was forced to start, basically ran the ball all night and made some basic throws.  And NO dressed him along with jameis even when all qbs were healthy. Doug can’t dress Nate and hurts and Carson because they have too many injuries all over the roster, otherwise Nate would be the true backup and hurts would just be another weapon. But because he’s listed as a qb and dressed people assume he’s the backup and could just jump right in to start any day now.   Never gonna happen.  He hasn’t had time to learn the offense to start and god forbid he had to enter a game, we’d be totally screwed. 

Point taken.  Except... we are totally screwed here and now with our healthy franchise qb’s play.   Rookie qb’s on crappy teams are out performing wentz right now
 

The situation all around just isnt good at the qb factory and im not the least bit excited about our prime time game  tomorrow night or the outcome.  Ive lost faith that wentz can provide that spark we need.  
 

wts said this is one of those games where the eagles might have a season high scoring but the defense and st completely collapse.  
 

so many ways to fail tomorrow. 

[DBW]

5 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Point taken.  Except... we are totally screwed here and now with our healthy franchise qb’s play.   Rookie qb’s on crappy teams are out performing wentz right now
 

The situation all around just isnt good at the qb factory and im not the least bit excited about our prime time fame tomorrow night or the outcome.  
 

wts said this is one of those games where the eagles might have a season high scoring but the defense and st completely collapse.  
 

so many ways to fail tomorrow. 

Yeah it’s a culmination Of things really.  wentz isn’t as bad as he looks but he is so mentally locked up it’s time to sit him for a mental break if nothing else but by doing that you open this rabid fan base up to a wave of HuRtZ iZ TeH FuTUrEZ!!!  
 

Doug is trying to save his job, and he knows that Hurts isn’t ready so making that call basically punches his ticket out. But he’s also so damn stubborn about his own abilities that he thinks no matter How bad wentz is he can coach him out of it.  
 

lurie isn’t going to stand for losing much longer.  He’s going to make major changes again so next season will be interesting to see who makes it and who doesn’t.  Lots of money invested in wentz. Howie has a lot of influence.  Doug is insecure.  Gonna be ugly. 

[kentwo]

6 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

There was a report that Doug and the coaches have been putting in pass plays where Wentz has a quick first read to get the ball out quickly.  Not sure how true but it doesnt seem like it's been helping.

Some analysts on one of the Eagles radio shows also said when they watch film they notice that the Eagle's young WRs are not separating quickly enough at the line causing Wentz to hold the ball fractions of the seconds longer. So quick reads don't help if the WRs aren't running precise routes or having trouble separating on the snap. 

[CaliEagle]

5 minutes ago, kentwo said:

Some analysts on one of the Eagles radio shows also said when they watch film they notice that the Eagle's young WRs are not separating quickly enough at the line causing Wentz to hold the ball fractions of the seconds longer. So quick reads don't help if the WRs aren't running precise routes or having trouble separating on the snap. 

The Eagles don't run rub routes/legal picks as much as most teams nowadays do and that's on the coaching staff. Coaches can do things like that to scheme guys open.

[kentwo]

12 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

The Eagles don't run rub routes/legal picks as much as most teams nowadays do and that's on the coaching staff. Coaches can do things like that to scheme guys open.

A couple of games ago they tried to run a rub route that resulted in a late pass and a breakup of the attempt. I forgot who the WRs were, but one of them hesitated on the route causing him to be late on the route. I think it was against the Giants. But yea, coaching sucks this year. 

[Penn7980]

Wentz has been looking for the long passes either by coaches' instruction or his own initiative.  When the deep receiver is not open or the OL breaking down, he is trying to buy time to complete the plays, which leads to sacks or forcing passes into tight window resulting in INT. 

Doug should put in plays on shorter routes and faster release.  So that Wentz does not hold on the ball too long.  Rushing more also helps.  Not sure why the coaches have not seen that and made the changes.  Unwilling to change and adjust can be fatal, IMHO. 

[315Eagles]

9 hours ago, kentwo said:

Some analysts on one of the Eagles radio shows also said when they watch film they notice that the Eagle's young WRs are not separating quickly enough at the line causing Wentz to hold the ball fractions of the seconds longer. So quick reads don't help if the WRs aren't running precise routes or having trouble separating on the snap. 

I agree.  But there are several times where someone is wide open right away and Wentz doesnt see him or doesnt pull the trigger.

[Talonblood]

As scary a thought as it is, the only thing that makes sense as to what has happened to Wentz is the concussion. Sometimes, people NEVER fully recover from one. Ever. I am not saying brain damage, but it is what it is. If your brain is processing 5-8 seconds behind everyone else on the field, then something is wrong. THAT is why he holds the ball too long, then does something ridiculous with it. The turnovers that REPEAT themselves. This is NOT the same brain at work before that hit/concussion he took against Seattle. Wentz's brain got rattled too badly for him to fully recover. It's something I don't want to believe, but after going through all the data I could dig up, this one is the one that makes the most sense to me. It's tragic and sad. I hope I am wrong, or if I am right- it reverses itself and he goes back to being normal. I wonder if any team mates notice any differences in his normal self when he is not playing, personality changes, etc.

[Portyansky]

29 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

As scary a thought as it is, the only thing that makes sense as to what has happened to Wentz is the concussion. Sometimes, people NEVER fully recover from one. Ever. I am not saying brain damage, but it is what it is. If your brain is processing 5-8 seconds behind everyone else on the field, then something is wrong. THAT is why he holds the ball too long, then does something ridiculous with it. The turnovers that REPEAT themselves. This is NOT the same brain at work before that hit/concussion he took against Seattle. Wentz's brain got rattled too badly for him to fully recover. It's something I don't want to believe, but after going through all the data I could dig up, this one is the one that makes the most sense to me. It's tragic and sad. I hope I am wrong, or if I am right- it reverses itself and he goes back to being normal. I wonder if any team mates notice any differences in his normal self when he is not playing, personality changes, etc.

Are you saying he needs another concussion and maybe it reverses itself? Guess who we play Monday. Although Clowney not there. But still.

[Arsenal79]

On 11/26/2020 at 2:02 PM, DBW said:

I could understand if we had a new offense and wentz struggled like A-A-Ron did at first with new coaches, but 5 years into this system and he still doesn’t get it.  He’s almost over thinking it.  Paralysis by analysis is another way of looking at it.  They need to simplify the offense a bit.  Start running 3 step drops with slants and quick hit passes.  Don’t try these complicated routes that take 8 seconds to develop because the o line can’t block for more than 4 seconds anyway.  Etc

dumb it down.  That’s how they won with foles.  It’s just as much dougs stubbornness to not change the offense as it is wentz for not taking the easy stuff.  

Unfortunately "dumbing it down" for Wentz doesn't work.  Doug has tried it.  Defenses figured out all you have to do is take away Carson's 1st read, and it's over.  His mind is too slow to process the field and find open guys further down in the progression.

[Godfather]

I blame him putting that book out

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, Talonblood said:

As scary a thought as it is, the only thing that makes sense as to what has happened to Wentz is the concussion. Sometimes, people NEVER fully recover from one. Ever. I am not saying brain damage, but it is what it is. If your brain is processing 5-8 seconds behind everyone else on the field, then something is wrong. THAT is why he holds the ball too long, then does something ridiculous with it. The turnovers that REPEAT themselves. This is NOT the same brain at work before that hit/concussion he took against Seattle. Wentz's brain got rattled too badly for him to fully recover. It's something I don't want to believe, but after going through all the data I could dig up, this one is the one that makes the most sense to me. It's tragic and sad. I hope I am wrong, or if I am right- it reverses itself and he goes back to being normal. I wonder if any team mates notice any differences in his normal self when he is not playing, personality changes, etc.

This is just a desperate attempt to rationalize a "slump." He can play better. He is playing poorly too often. While I do think it's "in his head" --- I don't think it has anything to do with the concussion. He's always had the high throws. He's always had the accuracy issues. He's always held the ball longer than you like at times, trying to extend plays. These are not new things that just started this season. They are only slightly more common than they were. In the past, the mistakes were fortunately less costly (potential INTs were dropped or the defender wasn't looking and fumbles were recovered by the Eagles). The law of averages has caught up to him this year and it seems more hopeless than it really is. Wentz just needs to settle down mentally and his teammates need to step up a bit. Pederson can do a much better job trying to force things to improve and shift his philosophy to favor the things that are fine and allow the other areas to improve naturally as defenses react.