23 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I disagree with the Wentz part. There is a sizeable minority on this board who wish Wentz was still our QB and that definitely influences their view on Hurts. 

That's made up BS.  That sizeable minority just doesn't "wish Wentz was still our QB."  They just don't buy into Jalen Hurts as an answer to anything and want to see a better QB with a higher ceiling behind center.  The problem is that Wentz (and many others, BTW) can be included in the upgrade category and (because Wentz and Hurts are forever linked), it keeps being twisted into something it isn't.

If there is an issue here, it's that one poster ALWAYS turns dissatisfaction about Hurts into some kind of Wentz argument every time. 

I‘d like to know: Am I the only one here still convinced that Hurts is the guy and will have a great career?

Because I feel like when he is kicking ass in the future there will be a lot of guys saying they always knew..

33 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

That's made up BS.  That sizeable minority just doesn't "wish Wentz was still our QB."  They just don't buy into Jalen Hurts as an answer to anything and want to see a better QB with a higher ceiling behind center.  The problem is that Wentz (and many others, BTW) can be included in the upgrade category and (because Wentz and Hurts are forever linked), it keeps being twisted into something it isn't.

If there is an issue here, it's that one poster ALWAYS turns dissatisfaction about Hurts into some kind of Wentz argument every time. 

I’m sorry but I don’t believe that. And I’m not saying that’s your view either or that everyone who criticises Hurts is a Wentz fanboy.
 

It’s not just about Wentz. It was the same with Foles when he was traded. There are a lot of people who think Wentz should be the guy here still and whether they admit or not, they will be harsher on Hurts than they should, because they feel that the drafting of Hurts was a major factor in pushing Wentz out.

16 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I’m sorry but I don’t believe that. And I’m not saying that’s your view either or that everyone who criticises Hurts is a Wentz fanboy.

It’s not just about Wentz. It was the same with Foles when he was traded. There are a lot of people who think Wentz should be the guy here still and whether they admit or not, they will be harsher on Hurts than they should, because they feel that the drafting of Hurts was a major factor in pushing Wentz out.

Sorry.  Only one guy is stoking that narrative.  The only thing you can do is prove that to me.  I haven't seen that take for a long, long time...almost back to when Wentz forced his way out.  Most people have resigned themselves to Hurts being the QB of the moment, yet still wish we had a better option.   

Are there some that think it was a believe Wentz is a better QB than Hurts?  Yes, me included (but I think most NFL QBs are). I'd even bet Howie falls into that category.   However, that option wasn't available and we are stuck with what we have.  I see the majority of people judging Hurts for Hurts by watching his play.  They aren't fooled by his swag or his exciting plays.  They are more concerned with his late throws, impatience in the pocket,  happy feet, short arming on deep throws, only throwing right, staring down Smith, low completion percentage...and now a horrific blueprinted game against the Giants..and the fact that all of this was projected by tons of talent evaluators as a lower pick.  That has nothing to do with Wentz.  

If anything, the extra heat he takes is because of Howie overdrafting him and then causing unnecessary QB turmoil that put us into this spot.

I hated the Jalen Hurts pick the second he was drafted, because he had major red flags (as a player) that are still popping up today and this was long before the meltdown that Wentz had last season.

It was clear Wentz wasn't comfortable being here, but my issues with Hurts have nothing to do with Wentz or Hurts as a person. He just isn't a good QB. He will likely never be a good QB. At best he's a poor man's Lamar that will get shut down against good teams and lose games when he's forced to throw. He is talented as a runner, but that's not enough.

8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Sorry.  Only one guy is stoking that narrative.  The only thing you can do is prove that to me.  I haven't seen that take for a long, long time...almost back to when Wentz forced his way out.  Most people have resigned themselves to Hurts being the QB of the moment, yet still wish we had a better option.   

Are there some that think it was a believe Wentz is a better QB than Hurts?  Yes, me included (but I think most NFL QBs are). I'd even bet Howie falls into that category.   However, that option wasn't available and we are stuck with what we have.  I see the majority of people judging Hurts for Hurts by watching his play.  They aren't fooled by his swag or his exciting plays.  They are more concerned with his late throws, impatience in the pocket,  happy feet, short arming on deep throws, only throwing right, staring down Smith, low completion percentage...and now a horrific blueprinted game against the Giants..and the fact that all of this was projected by tons of talent evaluators as a lower pick.  That has nothing to do with Wentz.  

If anything, the extra heat he takes is because of Howie overdrafting him and then causing unnecessary QB turmoil that put us into this spot.

 

3 minutes ago, Swoop said:

I hated the Jalen Hurts pick the second he was drafted, because he had major red flags (as a player) that are still popping up today and this was long before the meltdown that Wentz had last season.

It was clear Wentz wasn't comfortable being here, but my issues with Hurts have nothing to do with Wentz or Hurts as a person. He just isn't a good QB. He will likely never be a good QB. At best he's a poor man's Lamar that will get shut down against good teams and lose games when he's forced to throw. He is talented as a runner, but that's not enough.

I hated the Hurts pick. I was crying out for help on D. But I wasn’t naive enough to think that it was just to give the Eagles a high end back up. Hurts was clearly a plan B and Wentz knew it and reacted really badly to it.

I like Hurts, I like the energy he brings to the team, I want him to be the guy, but have serious concerns he isn’t. I want him to have the rest of the season.

But if you can’t see that there are posters who are clearly biased against Hurts (I don’t include either of you in this) then I’m not sure what more I can say other than read the last 15 pages of the Wentz thread.

35 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

I hated the Hurts pick. I was crying out for help on D. But I wasn’t naive enough to think that it was just to give the Eagles a high end back up. Hurts was clearly a plan B and Wentz knew it and reacted really badly to it.

I like Hurts, I like the energy he brings to the team, I want him to be the guy, but have serious concerns he isn’t. I want him to have the rest of the season.

But if you can’t see that there are posters who are clearly biased against Hurts (I don’t include either of you in this) then I’m not sure what more I can say other than read the last 15 pages of the Wentz thread.

There likely is. Probably a very vocal minority who don't give Hurts any sort of props. I don't like him as the future, but will commend him for good throws/winning/etc, as you can attest to.

Bottom line: being wrong about Hurts and having him prove us all wrong would be the best thing for the franchise, but I'm not holding my breath and seemingly, his time is running out.

30 minutes ago, Swoop said:

There likely is. Probably a very vocal minority who don't give Hurts any sort of props. I don't like him as the future, but will commend him for good throws/winning/etc, as you can attest to.

Bottom line: being wrong about Hurts and having him prove us all wrong would be the best thing for the franchise, but I'm not holding my breath and seemingly, his time is running out.

I respect that, I’m slightly more optimistic than you but I share a lot of the concerns.

As you say, if he can improve and be viable then that really helps the franchise.

1 hour ago, Infam said:

I‘d like to know: Am I the only one here still convinced that Hurts is the guy and will have a great career?

Because I feel like when he is kicking ass in the future there will be a lot of guys saying they always knew..

 

33 minutes ago, Macho Grande said:

 

Even muted that gif is still hilarious lol

21 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Anyone mention the 3rd and 2 incompletion Hurts threw, then barked at the sidelines and pushed the punt team back, only to throw another incompletion on 4th and 2?

while hurts sucked on both of those we could have run the ball on either of those downs and probably gotten the first....

 

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I respect that, I’m slightly more optimistic than you but I share a lot of the concerns.

As you say, if he can improve and be viable then that really helps the franchise.

I don't think there is any doubt that he will improve and that is good for the organization.  The question is "how far will he improve?".  I can give him credit when it is due and hope for the Eagles' sake that he becomes a star, BUT I have very little faith that he will to franchise QB level.  For that matter, I think he will be an exciting, bottom third performer, once the blueprint on his style is developed (see the Giants game).  Remember, this is the same style that he played in college and it does not translate well to the NFL.  He MUST be able to operate from the pocket and deliver on schedule....the problem is that he has never done that.  That leaves us hoping for a QB development that should have happened years and years ago. 

I have  a feeling that Howie is looking for his replacement already.  Those rumors getting out and the Eagles lack of clear commitment to him tells us alot.

There will always be a QB debate in Philly, I think even if they had a QB like Peyton Manning, Rogers, Mahomes or other top QBs there will always be fans unhappy and find something to complain about.

Having said that, while Hurts doesn't appear to be the long-term answer he's a young developing QB with ups and downs.  However, we've seen QBs over the years with accuracy and decision making issues and they usually don't improve that dramatically.  

14 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't think there is any doubt that he will improve and that is good for the organization.  The question is "how far will he improve?".  I can give him credit when it is due and hope for the Eagles' sake that he becomes a star, BUT I have very little faith that he will to franchise QB level.  For that matter, I think he will be an exciting, bottom third performer, once the blueprint on his style is developed (see the Giants game).  Remember, this is the same style that he played in college and it does not translate well to the NFL.  He MUST be able to operate from the pocket and deliver on schedule....the problem is that he has never done that.  That leaves us hoping for a QB development that should have happened years and years ago. 

I have  a feeling that Howie is looking for his replacement already.  Those rumors getting out and the Eagles lack of clear commitment to him tells us alot.

I very much have doubt. 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I very much have doubt. 

I think he will improve in some way or another, but it won't be enough to hold the position.  Just too many issues.

4 hours ago, Infam said:

I‘d like to know: Am I the only one here still convinced that Hurts is the guy and will have a great career?

Because I feel like when he is kicking ass in the future there will be a lot of guys saying they always knew..

He's not that guy pal. He's not that guy.

I love Hurts' intangibles, his love for the game, leadership, accountability, all of that good stuff.

But the guy doesn't have the talent, he just doesn't.

It was a fund ride for a little while, but we need to go get our guy through trade or the draft.

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I think he will improve in some way or another, but it won't be enough to hold the position.  Just too many issues.

It's possible, but I think he's near if not already at his ceiling. He's a hard worker and has great work ethic. Good for intangibles and what not but also means he's going to peak sooner than later. And for all the "he's basically a rookie" talk, he's played the game his whole life growing up, he was a true freshman starter at Alabama and played 4 years of College, all at the same position. He's now on his 2nd pro year. His arm is what it is, it's not going to magically improve. He might be able to make small strides on a play here or there but I have no reason to believe he can make a consistent improvement. 

4 hours ago, Infam said:

I‘d like to know: Am I the only one here still convinced that Hurts is the guy and will have a great career?

Because I feel like when he is kicking ass in the future there will be a lot of guys saying they always knew..

You come back and let us know when this happens.  I'm not going to wait around though.

A bit off topic, sorry. Who are the healthy RBs for the Birds for the Jets game??

 

23 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Having said that, while Hurts doesn't appear to be the long-term answer he's a young developing QB with ups and downs.  However, we've seen QBs over the years with accuracy and decision making issues and they usually don't improve that dramatically.  

this is where i am at on the whole debate. i just don't see hurts ever being a top half QB in the league and that's not going to cut it.  i really i hope i am wrong, but i rarely am. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It's possible, but I think he's near if not already at his ceiling. He's a hard worker and has great work ethic. Good for intangibles and what not but also means he's going to peak sooner than later. And for all the "he's basically a rookie" talk, he's played the game his whole life growing up, he was a true freshman starter at Alabama and played 4 years of College, all at the same position. He's now on his 2nd pro year. His arm is what it is, it's not going to magically improve. He might be able to make small strides on a play here or there but I have no reason to believe he can make a consistent improvement. 

No amount of work ethic is going to help him process what he is seeing any faster. That's his biggest flaw, you can make up for the weak ass arm if he could anticipate and read what is going on . Since he can't it only makes having a weaker arm even worse. He makes fear throws when the first read is there. When it's not you can instantly see the panic set in. 

I'm saying all of this after just saying last week he is headed in the right direction but, we all knew a game was going to come up where he was going to have to throw to win and there was zero improvement in that area and again it's not so much his arm as it is him not being able to process what he is seeing. 

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't think there is any doubt that he will improve and that is good for the organization.  The question is "how far will he improve?".  I can give him credit when it is due and hope for the Eagles' sake that he becomes a star, BUT I have very little faith that he will to franchise QB level.  For that matter, I think he will be an exciting, bottom third performer, once the blueprint on his style is developed (see the Giants game).  Remember, this is the same style that he played in college and it does not translate well to the NFL.  He MUST be able to operate from the pocket and deliver on schedule....the problem is that he has never done that.  That leaves us hoping for a QB development that should have happened years and years ago. 

I have  a feeling that Howie is looking for his replacement already.  Those rumors getting out and the Eagles lack of clear commitment to him tells us alot.

You may very well be right, but one thing I’m not buying is that the Giants had any kind of blueprint to stop him. He ran for 77 yards and it should have been over 100 if Herbig didn’t have a stupid holding penalty. 
 

Hurts and the Eagles beat themselves, there was no great blue print from the Giants.

I do think he has showed some development from the pocket, but I agree it may not be enough. 
 

He has 5 games left. Let’s see how he does.

Hurts does not have the natural arm strength of some of the elite scrambling QB's. Passed 10 yards, his passes flutter and are inaccurate unless he is standing in the pocket setting his base and using his body to put torque on the ball. The mechanics can be worked out but the arm strength is not an easy fix and not likely within the window he'll be given for a career.

Per next gen stats, in the last 10 games Hurts is ~48/103 (46.6%) past 10 yards and 111-164 (67.6%) under 10 yards.

7 minutes ago, Vileborg said:

Per next gen stats, in the last 10 games Hurts is ~48/103 (46.6%) past 10 yards and 111-164 (67.6%) under 10 yards.

I mean it would be interesting to see how that compares to other QBs. The further the throw the lower completion % you'd expect.