6 hours ago, eagle45 said:

The "Jalen Hurts needs time to continue to improve as a passer" crowd needs to see this.  First we have passing yards by chronological start.  Then we have passer rating by start.  A line of best fit analysis shows you a modest decline in his passing since he got the starting job.  He's not improving.  

Good analysis here. But really there is nothing surprising in here.

So far in his career what has become obvious is that for a Jalen QB'd offense to be effective, you need it to be designed around the run which takes advantage of what he does well and really limit the reliance on his passing which is where he is weak. We know that can work and be effective against bad teams as the recent stretch proved given the OL talent we have and the extra dimension Hurts adds as a runner. Can it be consistent and be effective against good teams? I don't have the answer there - Giants game raises a question on the first and we simply haven't gone up against teams with our new identity to have an answer on the second.

 What I will say that this sort of offence to me doesn't seem sustainable in the long run unless Jalen improves as a passer. He doesn't even need to be top-15 guy from that aspect but defences always catch up to one-trick ponies. His play so far hasn't shown that improvement.    

And here is the third relevant chart here for completeness - QBR as opposed to QB rating. I am not too familiar with the full inner workings of it but it is intended to factor in everything QB does including running and overlays situational importance into it e.g. discount garbage time stats, up weight 3rd down plays etc. Again shows what most of us probably already intuitively think anyway.

No real progress until the Lions game. Significantly improved performance when he is asked to do less as a passer (game 12+) and then the stinker against the Giants. Really hard to get a read on at this stage - we need to see more.

On 12/6/2021 at 11:52 AM, nipples said:

Bradford was better. And that’s saying something, because Bradford was mediocre even when healthy. Still, I always said Vick was overrated. He had one great year in his career and that was it. 

Michael made more than his share of HOLY CRAP DID YOU SEE THAT plays though, usually with his legs. That ability makes a primo NFL quarterback in some peoples' world.

Vick had all the tools to be a great runner/passer, but not the work ethic early in his career. He really took to the coaching during his second chance. Unfortunately, that was a little late in his career. Had he had the same attitude when he entered the NFL, he may have been an all-time great. 

The nice thing about Hurts, is his work ethic. I believe he'll improve steadily as a passer. At least he entered the NFL with the right attitude.

4 hours ago, pallidrone said:

Well considering they are on a bye this week I would assume the couch would start as one of the QBs watch TV.

Oh right, but still, couch??

11 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

And here is the third relevant chart here for completeness - QBR as opposed to QB rating. I am not too familiar with the full inner workings of it but it is intended to factor in everything QB does including running and overlays situational importance into it e.g. discount garbage time stats, up weight 3rd down plays etc. Again shows what most of us probably already intuitively think anyway.

No real progress until the Lions game. Significantly improved performance when he is asked to do less as a passer (game 12+) and then the stinker against the Giants. Really hard to get a read on at this stage - we need to see more.

 

9 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Vick had all the tools to be a great runner/passer, but not the work ethic early in his career. He really took to the coaching during his second chance. Unfortunately, that was a little late in his career. Had he had the same attitude when he entered the NFL, he may have been an all-time great. 

The nice thing about Hurts, is his work ethic. I believe he'll improve steadily as a passer. At least he entered the NFL with the right attitude.

Another thing to throw in the mix is PFF rating. Hurts’ PFF rating is 80 for the season. Minshew, in that game that a lot are saying showed he was the better QB, had a PFF rating of 72.

Hurts doesn’t get enough credit here. In the 5 games before the Giants mess he had the highest QBR in the league. Yes he wasn’t passing much, but he was showing development in his passing game, moving better in the pocket and making some nice throws. He was also converting in obvious passing situations, so it’s not like he was just relying on teams selling out against the run.

Everyone says we can’t win like that against good teams or in the playoffs. I have those concerns as well. But we don’t know that. The Saints and Broncos both have good Ds and we destroyed them. 
 

I’m not saying Hurts is the guy, it’s more likely than not that he isn’t in my view. But if he can build on the 5 weeks before the Giants, then we may have something. 
 

Minshew is what he is. There was a reason he was only a 6th round pick and there is a reason after 25 games that the most the Jags could get for him was a 6th rounder. He has a limited upside. 
 

I want to see more of Hurts before we write him off, he needs to start for the rest of the season.

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Another thing to throw in the mix is PFF rating. Hurts’ PFF rating is 80 for the season. Minshew, in that game that a lot are saying showed he was the better QB, had a PFF rating of 72.

Hurts doesn’t get enough credit here. In the 5 games before the Giants mess he had the highest QBR in the league. Yes he wasn’t passing much, but he was showing development in his passing game, moving better in the pocket and making some nice throws. He was also converting in obvious passing situations, so it’s not like he was just relying on teams selling out against the run.

Everyone says we can’t win like that against good teams or in the playoffs. I have those concerns as well. But we don’t know that. The Saints and Broncos both have good Ds and we destroyed them. 
 

I’m not saying Hurts is the guy, it’s more likely than not that he isn’t in my view. But if he can build on the 5 weeks before the Giants, then we may have something. 
 

Minshew is what he is. There was a reason he was only a 6th round pick and there is a reason after 25 games that the most the Jags could get for him was a 6th rounder. He has a limited upside. 
 

I want to see more of Hurts before we write him off, he needs to start for the rest of the season.

Those two statements are rather contradictory, no?   

Both Hurts and Minshew can get better.   I'm not so sure you can write off either one as "that is all he is".

14 hours ago, jsb235 said:

You can win a Super Bowl with a great defense and a top 10 offense. Teams do it all the time.

The offense is extremely young (second youngest in the league), has a clear weakness at wr, and has a defense in need of talent. Fix those problems before you go fixing problems that may not be a problem.    

There is also a weakness at quarterback that needs fixing or the path will lead the direction I have already mentioned

11 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Oh right, but still, couch??

What does Jalen Hurts, Gardner Minshew, my couch, a half eaten pepperoni pizza from a Domino's in Madison Wisconsin, a spool of 22 gauge multicolor wire, a yellow picture from the 1970s featuring an overweight man with no shirt on sitting in a lawn chair drinking a beer with his feet in a kiddie pool, a chocolate chip cookie and Megan Thee Stallion all have in common?

 

They all have the same chance of playing QB for the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday.

Men's Philadelphia Eagles Gardner Minshew II Nike Midnight Green Game Player Jersey (nflshop.com)

On sale now. Only $119.99.

Buy now. Ships in time for Christmas (maybe).

They also have Jaeln Hurts jerseys.

 

FWIW, Glazer says the team locker room has completely bought into Hurts as the starter.

1 hour ago, CouchKing said:

Men's Philadelphia Eagles Gardner Minshew II Nike Midnight Green Game Player Jersey (nflshop.com)

On sale now. Only $119.99.

Buy now. Ships in time for Christmas (maybe).

They also have Jaeln Hurts jerseys.

 

That's for the screen printed names and numbers I'm not paying 120 for screen print. 

3 hours ago, pallidrone said:

What does Jalen Hurts, Gardner Minshew, my couch, a half eaten pepperoni pizza from a Domino's in Madison Wisconsin, a spool of 22 gauge multicolor wire, a yellow picture from the 1970s featuring an overweight man with no shirt on sitting in a lawn chair drinking a beer with his feet in a kiddie pool, a chocolate chip cookie and Megan Thee Stallion all have in common?

 

They all have the same chance of playing QB for the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday.

I don't know, I think I'll give edge to the half eaten pepperoni pizza.

18 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

And here is the third relevant chart here for completeness - QBR as opposed to QB rating. I am not too familiar with the full inner workings of it but it is intended to factor in everything QB does including running and overlays situational importance into it e.g. discount garbage time stats, up weight 3rd down plays etc. Again shows what most of us probably already intuitively think anyway.

No real progress until the Lions game. Significantly improved performance when he is asked to do less as a passer (game 12+) and then the stinker against the Giants. Really hard to get a read on at this stage - we need to see more.

My original point was Hurts development (or lack thereof) as a passer.  His QBR is heavily altered by his running.  You even said his QBR was going up because he was doing less as a passer.  
 

The less he passes, the better he does.  I really don’t want that to be a statement that applies to my qb.

59 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

My original point was Hurts development (or lack thereof) as a passer.  His QBR is heavily altered by his running.  You even said his QBR was going up because he was doing less as a passer.  
 

The less he passes, the better he does.  I really don’t want that to be a statement that applies to my qb.

I totally agree with that. Was just throwing this out there as well to complete the picture. His effectiveness has improved but not because of his passing. 
 

And as I said before I’m not sure this style of play is sustainable and can work against good teams. I want to see development in him as a passer and haven’t seen enough noticeable thing improve there.

 

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Everyone says we can’t win like that against good teams or in the playoffs. I have those concerns as well. But we don’t know that. The Saints and Broncos both have good Ds and we destroyed them. 

I think where we have benefitted is playing inept offences which means we don’t fall behind and there is never pressure on the passing game.

Broncos game - excellent first half but he had 2 back to back drive killing mistakes in the 2nd. A more competent offence could have easily grabbed the lead there. We don’t know how Hurts responds and never got to see it given the stop and score from Big play slay and the D

The issue with beating a good team in the playoffs doesn't have to do with our offense, it's the fact that this defense has shown anytime it goes against a good QB it will let them have their way completing 80% of their passes. 

14 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

The issue with beating a good team in the playoffs doesn't have to do with our offense, it's the fact that this defense has shown anytime it goes against a good QB it will let them have their way completing 80% of their passes. 

Then it is the QB's job to outscore that team.  Chargers game for example, we gave up .9 of a point more than the Chargers average per game, but we scored 2.8 points less than what the Chargers give up per game.

21 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

The issue with beating a good team in the playoffs doesn't have to do with our offense, it's the fact that this defense has shown anytime it goes against a good QB it will let them have their way completing 80% of their passes. 

So you see the value in having a good qb who completes a high % of their passes then…

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

Then it is the QB's job to outscore that team.  Chargers game for example, we gave up .9 of a point more than the Chargers average per game, but we scored 2.8 points less than what the Chargers give up per game.

Our offense has been scoring a lot of points. But to outscore the other team if they can complete passes at will is a really hard ask.

I think we had real improvement on defense for a while though. And then Taylor got hurt. 

19 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Vick had all the tools to be a great runner/passer, but not the work ethic early in his career. He really took to the coaching during his second chance. Unfortunately, that was a little late in his career. Had he had the same attitude when he entered the NFL, he may have been an all-time great. 

The nice thing about Hurts, is his work ethic. I believe he'll improve steadily as a passer. At least he entered the NFL with the right attitude.

Vick had the arm and the speed. His body became fragile as the more hits he took. He also had a fumbling issue because of the way he held the ball during the runs

Hurts does not have Vicks arm

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

Then it is the QB's job to outscore that team.  Chargers game for example, we gave up .9 of a point more than the Chargers average per game, but we scored 2.8 points less than what the Chargers give up per game.

 

Hurts also tied the game with a 78 TD drive.  Chargers got the ball back with over 6 minutes left in the game and the defense let them bleed the clock out on a 15 play drive for the game winning field goal that left no time for the Eagles to try to answer. 

 

Don't be a clown. 

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

So you see the value in having a good qb who completes a high % of their passes then…

 

I see the value in Hurts for sure.  If we get into the playoffs the main concern won't be Hurts it will be if the defense is able to do perform any better against a good QB than they showed themselves capable everytime they played one during the season. 

10 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Hurts also tied the game with a 78 TD drive.  Chargers got the ball back with over 6 minutes left in the game and the defense let them bleed the clock out on a 15 play drive for the game winning field goal that left no time for the Eagles to try to answer. 

 

Don't be a clown. 

If we did not have more scoreless drives than the Chargers, it would not have been an issue.

46 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Hey Junior, I heard you were in here being dumb.  So I took you off ignore to join in on the ownage.  Still race baiting?  Or have you moved on to another weak arse argument?  

Oh cute! Let‘s talk about weak arse arguments, because that is clearly your field of expertise.

Best part though is: I still keep getting what I want. Hurts is our QB, stays our QB. Nothing you guys can do about it but spam hundreds of postings crying like little bishes.

So I‘m good. You?