2 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

Stop trying to minimize his skillset.   All his yards and TDS's passing or running count towards his production, period. That's like saying Lamar's MVP season don't count cause he had 1,000 yards rushing.   That's how you sound.   Your other comments are just projection and not based on facts.   

I agree you can't just dismiss what Hurts does rushing the ball. To date he has been ineffective as a passer but as a QB he has had been slightly more effective with his share of ups and downs , in large part because his rushing ability adds an extra dimension. No one stat is perfect if you look at his relative traditional QB rating and QBR this year - it pretty much proves this point. He is 27th out of 32 in traditional rating (passing only) but 21st in QBR (which factors in the running).

2 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

Stop trying to minimize his skillset.   All his yards and TDS's passing or running count towards his production, period. That's like saying Lamar's MVP season don't count cause he had 1,000 yards rushing.   That's how you sound.   Your other comments are just projection and not based on facts.   

Lamar Jackson's season counts because he was an effective and efficient thrower and led the league in TD passes along with his rushing stats.

2 hours ago, BirdsFanBill said:

Is he though? Do you really think if he just lined up at RB he’d be a good RB? I’m not so sure.

Probably not, but I think he would be effective as a pure RB. The lanes are certainly larger than they would be with him as the RB.

Funny how bad the Giants look playing against an actual NFL starting level QB. 

4 minutes ago, Devaster said:

Lamar Jackson's season counts because he was an effective and efficient thrower and led the league in TD passes along with his rushing stats.

I'm aware but his rushing broke the NFL record and was a huge reason he won MVP.  I was just saying you can't take that out, those 1,000 rushing yards were huge for the Ravens.  

5 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

I agree you can't just dismiss what Hurts does rushing the ball. To date he has been ineffective as a passer but as a QB he has had been slightly more effective with his share of ups and downs , in large part because his rushing ability adds an extra dimension. No one stat is perfect if you look at his relative traditional QB rating and QBR this year - it pretty much proves this point. He is 27th out of 32 in traditional rating (passing only) but 21st in QBR (which factors in the running).

I never said he was perfect or didn't need to improve in areas. I posted the 16 game stats to show what's he's done thus far.  When you have a young QB you look to see where he's headed.   Clearly Jalen's' played well enough to have his team in the Playoff hunt.    But you have to take the full package.  Those 1,000 yards he had on the ground was plenty of 1st downs and those TD's he got on the ground helped.   It's apart of his package like Vick and Lamar before him.   Shoot even though Randall had an amazing arm he also rushed a lot (Jalen's on pace to break Randall's record)   As he progresses, I expect the passing to progress as well.   My personal opinion is yes obviously we don't want Jalen to always be in harms way so he will have to sit on the pocket more.  At the same time I don't want Jalen to be a statue in the pocket either.   It's about finding that balance and I think he's getting better at that.  

2 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

Funny how bad the Giants look playing against an actual NFL starting level QB. 

No kidding - the Giants D isnt good and that was a terrible performance, especially when half their secondary was out

Hurts is not "playing well enough to have them in the playoff hunt.” They are in the playoff hunt because the NFL wants more teams in it. Hurts play lead this team to 5-7. That is not "well enough”. 

31 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Hurts is not "playing well enough to have them in the playoff hunt.” They are in the playoff hunt because the NFL wants more teams in it. Hurts play lead this team to 5-7. That is not "well enough”. 

The sixth spot is at 6-6. So they would be in it even if there was no seventh.

41 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Hurts is not "playing well enough to have them in the playoff hunt.” They are in the playoff hunt because the NFL wants more teams in it. Hurts play lead this team to 5-7. That is not "well enough”. 

Yep there is about five other reasons that I'd list ahead of Hurts' play as to why we are in the playoff hunt.

If the argument is simply whether they are in a position to fight for a playoff spot, then Heinicke, Bridgewater, Roethlisberger, Mayfield have been playing "well enough". None of those guys have been all that good....

Anyone think Hurts could put a drive together like the one Burrow just had?

20 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

Anyone think Hurts could put a drive together like the one Burrow just had?

No

7 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

FINAL NUMBERS 1st 16 STARTS:

Record: 6-10

Passing 57.7% Comp.  3,496 Yards  19 TD 12 INT

Rushing  1,049 Yards, 11 TDS

Total = 4,545 Yards 30 TD's, 12 INTS

 

Let's be seriously honest here.  That's a lot of production for a young QB.   This is a solid first 16 starts.    Yes the Win Total could be better but that will come with time.   I believe Carson was 7-9 his first 16.  Donovan went 8-8 his 1st 16 Starts. 

 

The win total isnt what people are concerned with. People are concerned that he's showing little to no improvement over the course of this entire season and despite the ball being taken out of his hands more, he still struggles mightily with passing.

20 minutes ago, Swoop said:

The win total isnt what people are concerned with. People are concerned that he's showing little to no improvement over the course of this entire season and despite the ball being taken out of his hands more, he still struggles mightily with passing.

I would argue that he has shown improvement over last year. His completion percentage is up and his fumbles are way down. Considering he only had a limited amount of snaps last year and still had 9 fumbles, had he played the whole season, he was on pace for around 30 fumbles. So far this year, he only has 6.

Obviously our last impression from him was a 3 INT game which was not good. I would hope we don't see another game like that from him this year. All QBs have a terrible game here and there. The better ones will learn from those. We have to see if Hurts does. 

Overall, I'd say he's shown improvement. We just have to be careful not to use the giants game as the season benchmark. We need to see if and how he responds. We need to see how he plays the final 4 games. 

His completion percentage is up because the coach gave up on him and uses him as a running back.

Is Jalen Tebow gonna play next week or do we get some more Minshew Mania?

14 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

Is Jalen Tebow gonna play next week or do we get some more Minshew Mania?

I don't think the organization (Howie) will give up on Hurts this early. He gets likely the rest of this season even though he doesn't deserve it outside of draft status.

On 12/10/2021 at 11:16 AM, downundermike said:

 

That’s beyond bad 

3 hours ago, Infam said:

The sixth spot is at 6-6. So they would be in it even if there was no seventh.

That’s not a counter point

1 hour ago, It Hurts said:

That’s beyond bad 

Is it plant-based bad? 

10 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

FINAL NUMBERS 1st 16 STARTS:

Record: 6-10

Passing 57.7% Comp.  3,496 Yards  19 TD 12 INT

Rushing  1,049 Yards, 11 TDS

Total = 4,545 Yards 30 TD's, 12 INTS

 

Let's be seriously honest here.  That's a lot of production for a young QB.   This is a solid first 16 starts.    Yes the Win Total could be better but that will come with time.   I believe Carson was 7-9 his first 16.  Donovan went 8-8 his 1st 16 Starts. 

 

Woohoo. He has worse numbers than RGIII did almost a decade ago. LFG!

10 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

FINAL NUMBERS 1st 16 STARTS:

Record: 6-10

Passing 57.7% Comp.  3,496 Yards  19 TD 12 INT

Rushing  1,049 Yards, 11 TDS

Total = 4,545 Yards 30 TD's, 12 INTS

 

Let's be seriously honest here.  That's a lot of production for a young QB.   This is a solid first 16 starts.    Yes the Win Total could be better but that will come with time.   I believe Carson was 7-9 his first 16.  Donovan went 8-8 his 1st 16 Starts. 

 

Those are the numbers of an objectively bad passer.

8 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I would argue that he has shown improvement over last year. His completion percentage is up and his fumbles are way down. Considering he only had a limited amount of snaps last year and still had 9 fumbles, had he played the whole season, he was on pace for around 30 fumbles. So far this year, he only has 6.

Obviously our last impression from him was a 3 INT game which was not good. I would hope we don't see another game like that from him this year. All QBs have a terrible game here and there. The better ones will learn from those. We have to see if Hurts does. 

Overall, I'd say he's shown improvement. We just have to be careful not to use the giants game as the season benchmark. We need to see if and how he responds. We need to see how he plays the final 4 games. 

His fumbling has definitely gotten better. You're one billion percent right there.

Every other aspect of his game is virtually the same. His completion percentage is marginally better (as of now), but he's also barely throwing the ball and even those are usually short passes. 

This isn't just about the Giants game. He started the year off well and has been gross ever since. Since week 4, he has more rushing TDs than passing TDs. As is, in his last 8 starts he has 6 touchdowns (passing), 6 interceptions and a 57% completion percentage.

It's a problem.

8 hours ago, eagle45 said:

His completion percentage is up because the coach gave up on him and uses him as a running back.

How can his completion percentage ever be bad when he doesn't throw more than 3 yards downfield?  His own coach has turned him into a throwing RB.

16 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

FINAL NUMBERS 1st 16 STARTS:

Record: 6-10

Passing 57.7% Comp.  3,496 Yards  19 TD 12 INT

Rushing  1,049 Yards, 11 TDS

Total = 4,545 Yards 30 TD's, 12 INTS

 

Let's be seriously honest here.  That's a lot of production for a young QB.   This is a solid first 16 starts.    Yes the Win Total could be better but that will come with time.   I believe Carson was 7-9 his first 16.  Donovan went 8-8 his 1st 16 Starts. 

 

Does this mean that he is no longer a "rookie" and we can move on from that excuse?

Here's what I'm talking about. Now, admittedly its super early and I haven't had my coffee yet. People can check the numbers themselves and if there's an issue, we can correct the numbers I'm about to post. Seeing as how the first 16 games were posted as totals, I broke them down. This is counting the GB and Washington half as a single game and its important to note that unlike other rookies, Hurts had almost an entire season to sit and learn (while also taking some snaps) and also an entire offseason/camp after starting a handful of games.  I present to you:

In his first eight starts, Hurts had 2,195 yards passing with 13 touchdowns, 6 interceptions and a quarterback rating of 83.  Additionally, he added 527 rushing yards and 4 rushing touchdowns. For those of you that like totals, we're looking at 2,722 total yards and 17 touchdowns. 

In his last eight starts, Hurts has 1,268 passing yards with 6 touchdowns, 6 interceptions and a quarterback rating of 76. Additionally, he added 469 rushing yards and 7 rushing touchdowns. Again, for those of you that like totals, we're looking at 1,737 total yards and 13 touchdowns.

The completion percentage change between the two is fairly marginal, as is yards per carry.

In these past eight starts he has 1,000 less total yards (basically) and 4 fewer touchdowns. His quarterback rating has dropped 7 points.

Now the big argument was how bad the team was last season. It was. Taking that into account though, why is it then that with a vastly superior line, better weapons and more experience is he dropping off in essentially every way?

Again I ask, where is the improvement?