19 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

To answer your question, I thought we had a good game plan against the Giants.

The game was so boring I can't even recall the game plan and I know not to take your word for anything 🙂

3 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

The game was so boring I can't even recall the game plan and I know not to take your word for anything 🙂

 

5 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

There are lot of people that believe Hurts is the future

Definitely the future of the next 2 years, when he's playing for almost nothing.

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

Definitely the future of the next 2 years, when he's playing for almost nothing.

Hurts is the foreseeable Present, unless he looses it, and has repeat Giants like games. I was perfectly fine with him until he started throwing multiple interceptions.

If he reverts back to managing the game, and Siri keeps calling a strong running attack,...I am fine with Hurts for at least 2+ years.

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

Definitely the future of the next 2 years, when he's playing for almost nothing.

Any newly drafted QB will cost next to nothing. That doesn't mean a whole lot if he isn't also producing.

8 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Definitely the future of the next 2 years, when he's playing for almost nothing.

I wouldn't say 2 years. I wouldn't even say it's for sure next year. The coaches and front office have to see that the offense is limited with Hurts

2 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

I wouldn't say 2 years. I wouldn't even say it's for sure next year. The coaches and front office have to see that the offense is limited with Hurts

Unless Hurts makes some real progress in his passing game I don't believe the FO keeps him the starter any longer then they have to. I'm just not sure how patient they are going to be. Do they rush it and bring in a vet or reach in the draft this year? Or do they wait another year when there should be a better draft class? I've seen nothing that indicates the FO or coaches think Hurts is the guy. We know this FO wants a throwing QB and it sure seems Siri's desire is that too. It's going to be an interesting off season to watch unfold.

20 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

The "winning" also coincides with two other aspects: us playing weak opponents and the offence being reshaped to focus less on Hurts. And we still had a total clunker in the Giants game which is still post those two fundamental changes.

I can't say I have seen noticeable improvements in him as a passer to date. But I still want Hurts to finish out the season because I am still unsure in what we have there. What I can see is that there is something there in him as a runner that gives him a bit of upside if he could ever even get to just being component as a passer.  

People have swept it under the rug, but I broke down his 16 starts into 2 halves. First eight games and the last eight games.

Generally speaking, he's gotten worse across the board.

This is with two offseasons (his first being weird), being able to sit and learn for 3/4 his first season, etc.

He may get one year longer, but I highly doubt he goes beyond that if he doesn't make serious strides. As is, that's being generous.

3 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

You should be concerned how we score touchdowns because tight ends and WR's wont come here(see Baltimore). 

lol. We just paid Jeffery a lot of money this year and last year to do absolutely nothing. We paid DJax $15M to do nothing for 2 seasons on top of that. Imagine what a good WR that can stay on the field could earn even if his production was less on this team vs his previous team ... 

3 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Side note, sure dont worry about his terrible stat lines that should be a problem, worry about the record...Theyre 5-7 and all his wins will come against top 10 picks next year. 

Currently 6-7 btw.  

I don't want to make it seem like the wins are all because of Hurts. That (wins and losses) will always be a team stat, not an individual player stat. To clarify my point, if Hurts plays and we win, we get the most important outcome of the game (the win) and Hurts gains experience and an opportunity to learn and get better. Right now, this is far from the NFL's typical offense. The stats will all be far from normal when compared to the normal. I don't share your concern with "stat lines." I do care about things like QB accuracy and WRs catching the ball when thrown to. We certainly can strive to get better in those areas and nobody on the team has been above criticism. 

 

There are people here that like to go out of their way to criticize a player they have no faith in. There are people here that may do the opposite. In the case of Hurts, I don't feel I'm in either camp. I'm just supporting him since he's currently our QB1. I illustrated my concerns in previous posts. He's about where I expect him to be as a player at this point in his career. He didn't all of a sudden make everybody forget about the NFL's top QBs. He's a young player getting his opportunity to grow. Sometimes he really looks the part of a young QB. That doesn't surprise me. It seems to me, sometimes, that fans just want to "binge-watch" through the growing process and get through 4-5 seasons in a few weeks. The feeling is that if a player doesn't become that experienced, seasoned vet after half the season, then we should move on to the next guy ...  I'd rather be supportive of the guy I feel is making progress (even if others feel that progress is minimal). 

9 minutes ago, Swoop said:

People have swept it under the rug, but I broke down his 16 starts into 2 halves. First eight games and the last eight games.

Generally speaking, he's gotten worse across the board.

This is with two offseasons (his first being weird), being able to sit and learn for 3/4 his first season, etc.

He may get one year longer, but I highly doubt he goes beyond that if he doesn't make serious strides. As is, that's being generous.

There was nothing to sweep under the rug. You can break it down however you want. If you want to break down his pass attempts as odd number vs even number to support your opinion, go crazy. At this point, I'm not concerned with what he did in Doug's offense. Doug is gone. Hurts is not a rookie this year either as some want to make believe. This is his second season. Hurts has moderately improved his completion percentage over last season. I was hoping to see it improve just a little bit more than it has, but I'll take what I can get. We really don't have a lot of veteran leaders on offense at the skill positions. It's a very young group all learning together, all growing together. That probably hurts us a bit this season, but offers the opportunity to make a much bigger jump next season. 

I think we all want to see serious strides. I don't think I'm reaching by stating that as fact. I think virtually everybody here knows we're leaving plays out there in the passing game. The debate currently revolves around whether it's getting better. Hopefully the last 4+ games will shed light on the debate. 

12 minutes ago, Vileborg said:

Barn meet Jalen Hurts plz. I saw a tweet where Hurts is 48% on passes beyond 3 yards. Here is the rest of the NFL past 20 yards. You'll notice not only is the whole league more accurate beyond 20 yards that Hurts is beyond 3 yards. You'll also notice that they are more accurate beyond 20 yards than he is throwing the ball period. (60.1% per ESPN) I like Hurts and I want him to succeed but the writing on the wall is clear. He should not be a starting QB in this league.

 

I've included a small sample size for ease of viewing but the link below includes the full table with Carson Wentz bringing up the rear 63.3%. You may be perceptive and notice that Jalen Hurts is not listed. He does not throw enough deep balls to meet the requirements. As in they've been sheltering him and he's still the worst passer by a ton in the league.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/deep-ball-completion-percent-leaders

 

You are truly bad at googling, reading comprehension and the internet in general.

31 minutes ago, Vileborg said:

Barn meet Jalen Hurts plz. I saw a tweet where Hurts is 48% on passes beyond 3 yards. Here is the rest of the NFL past 20 yards. You'll notice not only is the whole league more accurate beyond 20 yards that Hurts is beyond 3 yards. You'll also notice that they are more accurate beyond 20 yards than he is throwing the ball period. (60.1% per ESPN) I like Hurts and I want him to succeed but the writing on the wall is clear. He should not be a starting QB in this league.

 

I've included a small sample size for ease of viewing but the link below includes the full table with Carson Wentz bringing up the rear 63.3%. You may be perceptive and notice that Jalen Hurts is not listed. He does not throw enough deep balls to meet the requirements. As in they've been sheltering him and he's still the worst passer by a ton in the league.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/deep-ball-completion-percent-leaders

 

Weird how every one of those guys is "more accurate" (completion percentage) with the deep pass than all their own passes combined. 

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Weird how every one of those guys is "more accurate" (completion percentage) with the deep pass than all their own passes combined. 

Actually, that is their completion percentage and not their deep ball passing rate. I found an article that showed a few and was trying to find an article that listed everyone. Unfortunately, the article I found was BS. He's still well below everyone past 3 yards.

8 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

I wouldn't say 2 years. I wouldn't even say it's for sure next year. The coaches and front office have to see that the offense is limited with Hurts

Exactly. I can give him the rest of the year but he most definitely is playing the rest of season to audition to keep his job next year. His performance this year certainly haven't given me confidence so far that he should be locked in as the guy next year

7 hours ago, Swoop said:

People have swept it under the rug, but I broke down his 16 starts into 2 halves. First eight games and the last eight games.

Generally speaking, he's gotten worse across the board.

This is with two offseasons (his first being weird), being able to sit and learn for 3/4 his first season, etc.

He may get one year longer, but I highly doubt he goes beyond that if he doesn't make serious strides. As is, that's being generous.

I saw the stats and they aren't surprising to anyone who has been watching the games. But i do caution they are raw stats like total yards which tells me more about usage than efficiency, albeit you did have QB rating in there which is an efficiency metric but for passing only.

What has been obvious is the Eagles have made a very conscious decision to re-orientate the offence to pivot away and limit what Hurts is asked to do. This is partly what your stats showed. Hurts hasn't made significant strides as a passer which your stats also showed. However, this change in offence (and probably playing weaker competition) did very clearly improve his efficiency as a QB (until the Giants game), and part of this is what he does running the ball. Outside of watching the games, the best stat I have is QBR which i posted on a game by game basis a while back which shows given it takes into account running and things like red zone and 3rd down conversions etc.

Now, I don't think this is necessarily think this all that positive because I don't like the fact that for us to improve our offence, we basically had to pivot it away from Hurts. He is clearly limited as a passer which limits what offence can be structured around him. But it isn't quite as bad as the stats you posted suggest, albeit the lack of meaningful progress as a passer is most definitely concerning. Let the full season play out and we can evaluate him after that. I am certainly not sold on him as the QB next year but I'm not writing him off just yet either.

If the team makes the post season, he gets pass for the next year. If not there will be speculations for sure and who knows...just sayin

 The O- Line determines the success of a QB more than anything other than himself, it’s the reason why most rookie QB’s are awful, they get drafted to bad teams. Tua like Hurts isn’t a rookie, but he’s recently found a way to be successful despite the garbage the Dolphins have had on their line during the past two seasons, his rookie season was never a fair assessment especially considering Flores never wanted him. Justin Fields has a terrible line, Wilson and Lawrence have middle of the road lines, Wilson has been overrated since before the draft, Lawrence has an idiot coach, but he’s missed a bunch of open receivers as well.  Jones in New England has a top 5 pass blocking line, much like he did at Alabama and he’s been good.  
 If Hurts is getting proper time to hit open receivers and he’s off target, or not seeing them consistently, he won’t be back as a starter in 2022.  The Eagles O-line is top 3 in pass blocking and has been top 5 since the Detroit game.   DeVonta Smith gets open, he can’t really be covered 1on1 except on a go route. If he’s not being targeted 7-8 times a game in single coverage, the QB is failing.  
 

23 hours ago, brkmsn said:

lol. We just paid Jeffery a lot of money this year and last year to do absolutely nothing. We paid DJax $15M to do nothing for 2 seasons on top of that. Imagine what a good WR that can stay on the field could earn even if his production was less on this team vs his previous team ... 

Currently 6-7 btw.  

I don't want to make it seem like the wins are all because of Hurts. That (wins and losses) will always be a team stat, not an individual player stat. To clarify my point, if Hurts plays and we win, we get the most important outcome of the game (the win) and Hurts gains experience and an opportunity to learn and get better. Right now, this is far from the NFL's typical offense. The stats will all be far from normal when compared to the normal. I don't share your concern with "stat lines." I do care about things like QB accuracy and WRs catching the ball when thrown to. We certainly can strive to get better in those areas and nobody on the team has been above criticism. 

 

There are people here that like to go out of their way to criticize a player they have no faith in. There are people here that may do the opposite. In the case of Hurts, I don't feel I'm in either camp. I'm just supporting him since he's currently our QB1. I illustrated my concerns in previous posts. He's about where I expect him to be as a player at this point in his career. He didn't all of a sudden make everybody forget about the NFL's top QBs. He's a young player getting his opportunity to grow. Sometimes he really looks the part of a young QB. That doesn't surprise me. It seems to me, sometimes, that fans just want to "binge-watch" through the growing process and get through 4-5 seasons in a few weeks. The feeling is that if a player doesn't become that experienced, seasoned vet after half the season, then we should move on to the next guy ...  I'd rather be supportive of the guy I feel is making progress (even if others feel that progress is minimal). 

Great post. I'm truly not sure about Hurts, but there are a lot of people on this board who refuse to see the upside or improvements, because they have made up their mind about Hurts.

I just want to see how he does over the next 4 weeks (and potentially beyond). 

Let's just go to 30,000' with Hurts and observe the forest for a minute, rather than over-analyzing some adjacent trees:

Jalen Hurts is a bad passer.  That was his starting point.  That's still where he's still at, even with some improvements along the way.

This is how you want to move forward?  Just roll with an offense built around a QB running and the hope that a bad passer can turn into a good one?

 

13 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Let's just go to 30,000' with Hurts and observe the forest for a minute, rather than over-analyzing some adjacent trees:

Jalen Hurts is a bad passer.  That was his starting point.  That's still where he's still at, even with some improvements along the way.

This is how you want to move forward?  Just roll with an offense built around a QB running and the hope that a bad passer can turn into a good one?

 

I don't know how you go from McNabb to Vick to Wentz and still think Hurts is going to become a legit passer when he is way way worse then all of them with very little improvement after 16 games. That is just accuracy I'm talking about before even getting into his arm strength and decision making.

I had hopes for Hurts I really did, I went back and forth this whole season. I just can't anymore 

I think there is a major difference between letting him play out this season and possibly next and someone thinking he's the future. I don't see many, if any, saying he's the future. Seems to me there are just a few camps people fall into:

Let Hurts finish the season

Let Hurts start next season rather than bring in a new QB

Sit Hurts and start Minshew

Bring in a new QB next year

Is there anyone out there thinking we should lock Hurts into a long term contract now? If you think he is the future now is the time to do that. I don't believe anyone is 100% sold on Hurts.

 

Let the predictions begin! Does he look healthy, or no?

 

Injury prone

39 minutes ago, toolg said:

Let the predictions begin! Does he look healthy, or no?

 

He's either limping or pimp walking. 

1 hour ago, toolg said:

Let the predictions begin! Does he look healthy, or no?

 

I think he'll play if he's anywhere near healthy. The team aren't going to want the controversy of Minshew potentially having another really good game.