2 hours ago, Thing3 said:

I think there is a major difference between letting him play out this season and possibly next and someone thinking he's the future. I don't see many, if any, saying he's the future. Seems to me there are just a few camps people fall into:

Let Hurts finish the season

Let Hurts start next season rather than bring in a new QB

Sit Hurts and start Minshew

Bring in a new QB next year

Is there anyone out there thinking we should lock Hurts into a long term contract now? If you think he is the future now is the time to do that. I don't believe anyone is 100% sold on Hurts.

 

I think there are 2/3 who are, but I agree it's rubbish to say that there are many on this board saying he is the future.

I want him to finish the season and potentially roll with him and Minshew next year depending on how he finishes and the available options at QB next year (which look pretty poor at the moment).

43 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think he'll play if he's anywhere near healthy. The team aren't going to want the controversy of Minshew potentially having another really good game. 

Why would you not want to have one of them to have a really good game? It's not like they have a ton of money invested in either of them. 

Since when do the eagles care about QB controversy? 

We can't play that QB he might have a good game!  Say that in your head a few times. 

47 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think he'll play if he's anywhere near healthy. The team aren't going to want the controversy of Minshew potentially having another really good game. 

There's going to be a lot more controversy if he can't run and stay in the pocket all game.

Minshew and the scrub have been splitting first team reps this week

46 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

There's going to be a lot more controversy if he can't run and stay in the pocket all game.

Too true, too true!

48 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Why would you not want to have one of them to have a really good game? It's not like they have a ton of money invested in either of them. 

Since when do the eagles care about QB controversy?

Of course they want one to have a good game. I didn't say they didn't. But if Minshew starts and plays well then the noises to start him are going to increase more. 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Of course they want one to have a good game. I didn't say they didn't. But if Minshew starts and plays well then the noises to start him are going to increase more. 

Ok.... I doubt the eagles are afraid of that. They clearly don't care about QB controversy

41 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Ok.... I doubt the eagles are afraid of that. They clearly don't care about QB controversy

Howie when it comes to QB controversies 

Not that I’m a Hurts believer, but maybe a bum ankle and being forced to sit in the pocket are what he needs to develop as a passer. 

Just now, eagle45 said:

Not that I’m a Hurts believer, but maybe a bum ankle and being forced to sit in the pocket are what he needs to develop as a passer. 

And an arm, and the ability to read a defense and progress through reads.

10 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Let's just go to 30,000' with Hurts and observe the forest for a minute, rather than over-analyzing some adjacent trees:

Jalen Hurts is a bad passer.  That was his starting point.  That's still where he's still at, even with some improvements along the way.

This is how you want to move forward?  Just roll with an offense built around a QB running and the hope that a bad passer can turn into a good one?

 

the hope that whatever level of passing that Jalen Hurts brings is good enough for wins.

Because he brings a level of running that almost none in the NFL can bring.  And that running brings wins.  If you add together what Jalen Hurts brings with the running with the passing,   the level of passing that is required is lower for wins, because the level of running is so high.

Jalen Hurts is on the team.  Jalen Hurts has a cheap contract, and he's signed through 2023.

Other alternatives are more costly.  Jalen Hurts is doing better than most first round draft picks of the last 4 years.   So,  if the Eagles were to use a first round draft pick on a QB,  it's more likely than not that the new QB would be worse than Jalen Hurts.  And, it's a draft pick wasted that could've been used elsewhere.   A veteran would likely either be worse than Jalen Hurts, or extremely costly.   Someone somewhere mentioned Mariota.  That might be a good idea.  He's pretty cheap with the Raiders right now.  

Just now, Random Reglar said:

the hope that whatever level of passing that Jalen Hurts brings is good enough for wins.

Because he brings a level of running that almost none in the NFL can bring.  And that running brings wins.  If you add together what Jalen Hurts brings with the running with the passing,   the level of passing that is required is lower for wins, because the level of running is so high.

Jalen Hurts is on the team.  Jalen Hurts has a cheap contract, and he's signed through 2023.

Other alternatives are more costly.  Jalen Hurts is doing better than most first round draft picks of the last 4 years.   So,  if the Eagles were to use a first round draft pick on a QB,  it's more likely than not that the new QB would be worse than Jalen Hurts.  And, it's a draft pick wasted that could've been used elsewhere.   A veteran would likely either be worse than Jalen Hurts, or extremely costly.   Someone somewhere mentioned Mariota.  That might be a good idea.  He's pretty cheap with the Raiders right now.  

Running QB’s don’t win titles

9 hours ago, Thing3 said:

I think there is a major difference between letting him play out this season and possibly next and someone thinking he's the future. I don't see many, if any, saying he's the future. Seems to me there are just a few camps people fall into:

Let Hurts finish the season

Let Hurts start next season rather than bring in a new QB

Sit Hurts and start Minshew

Bring in a new QB next year

Is there anyone out there thinking we should lock Hurts into a long term contract now? If you think he is the future now is the time to do that. I don't believe anyone is 100% sold on Hurts.

 

The Eagles cannot sign Jalen Hurts to a long term contract now.   They have to wait.

I'm with - Hurts is the starter next year.  

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Running QB’s don’t win titles

But they have all been highly successful.

Michael Vick made the NFC championship game. He also missed two years in his prime.

Cam Newton made a Super Bowl.

Randall Cunningham made the playoffs eight times in his career.

Steve McNair went to the Super Bowl.

Lamar Jackson has been in the playoffs every year he has been in the league.

So out of the five qbs who were known more for their running ability than their passing ability, all of them had a high level of success.

Just because the Titans came up a yard short in their Super Bowl bid doesn't mean that a dual threat qb can never win a Super Bowl, it just means that the ball didn't bounce the right way for the qbs on the list. The simple fact is that there is such a small sample size of dual threat qbs, that one of them not winning a title is more just simple odds than any indication that a running qb can't win a title.

By saying a running qb can't win a championship, you are being incredibly disingenuous since every running qb who has gotten to the NFL has found a high level of success. And it is hard to make an argument that any of the qbs on the list were better passers at this stage of their careers than Hurts. Many of them had great arm talent, or were superior athletes, but if your argument is that any of them were better all around passers, it's not going to get you very far.

Case in point is Steve McNair, who didn't even start until his third NFL season, and was the second-worst passer in the league when he did start. A few years later he was in the Super Bowl, and his passing had improved all the way to...16th in the league.

Michael Vick, in his best season, was the third-worst passing qb in the league. But he won games. And he was also killing dogs in his free time. Jalen Hurts spent the bye week in Philly working on getting better.      

45 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Running QB’s don’t win titles

Russell Wilson.

Running QBs are still rare.   How many are there now currently starting out of 32? 

6th round QBs win titles.  Tom Brady has won 4 out of 8. 

If you look at the last 8 years,  if you remove Tom Brady,  Russell Wilson is 1/4.  With Tom Brady 1/8.

That's NOT Running QBs don't win the Super Bowl.  Tom Brady wins Super Bowls.  Everyone else,  Running QBs win 1/4th the time, and Running QBs are much much less than 1/4th the total starting QBs.   

48 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Running QB’s don’t win titles

They used to say the same thing about black QBs and short QBs and teams without good defenses or teams without a decent run game.  You can say, "well it hasn't been done yet," and there's some truth to that, but it hasn't been tried as often as the standard passing QB either. Many passing QBs have failed to win titles --- many of those are in the HOF. I can think of a couple "running" QBs that have titles (Steve Young, John Elway), but of course they were also good passers at that time. Hurts has improving to do. I, personally, don't feel he's as bad as some are making him out to be. I also don't think he's incapable of improving significantly over the next couple years. 

 

I'm not in Random Reglar's pro-cheap, running QB and fancy gadget out-of-position player camp, by any means. I prefer to find and eventually pay the price tag for a veteran franchise QB that can pass well. I do like my QBs to be mobile and to be able to make plays with their feet, but that's a luxury, not a prerequisite. Still, it won't surprise me to see a "running QB" win a title in the next several years. I'm not going to rule out the possibility --- especially in a team sport. 

13 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

They used to say the same thing about black QBs and short QBs and teams without good defenses or teams without a decent run game.  You can say, "well it hasn't been done yet," and there's some truth to that, but it hasn't been tried as often as the standard passing QB either. Many passing QBs have failed to win titles --- many of those are in the HOF. I can think of a couple "running" QBs that have titles (Steve Young, John Elway), but of course they were also good passers at that time. Hurts has improving to do. I, personally, don't feel he's as bad as some are making him out to be. I also don't think he's incapable of improving significantly over the next couple years. 

 

I'm not in Random Reglar's pro-cheap, running QB and fancy gadget out-of-position player camp, by any means. I prefer to find and eventually pay the price tag for a veteran franchise QB that can pass well. I do like my QBs to be mobile and to be able to make plays with their feet, but that's a luxury, not a prerequisite. Still, it won't surprise me to see a "running QB" win a title in the next several years. I'm not going to rule out the possibility --- especially in a team sport. 

Russell Wilson.  

Ran for 849 yards one year.

That's a running QB. 

Running QBs are QBs who have a lot of rushing yards. 

You can make a stronger version of your argument if you understand that running QB Russell Wilson did win a Super Bowl 8 years ago.  

 The bigger question is what determines a running QB?  IMO it matters how many times a QB runs the ball per season. 
  100 rushes per season?  Wilson has only done that twice, 90 plus per season and it’s five times. Vicks highest total through a 16 game season is 123, Hurts is at 122 through 12 games this season. There aren’t that many QB’s that have rushed 122 times in 12 games, it’s Lamar, Hurts, possibly Cam.   
 
Btw, stop comparing Russell Wilson to Hurts, he was a much better passer than Hurts as a rookie and still is.  Hurts comp right now is Cam Newton, if a comp has to be done. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

Russell Wilson.  

Ran for 849 yards one year.

That's a running QB. 

Running QBs are QBs who have a lot of rushing yards. 

You can make a stronger version of your argument if you understand that running QB Russell Wilson did win a Super Bowl 8 years ago.  

So because he rushed for 849 yards the year after he won a SB makes him a running QB that won the SB? Lol 

6 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Not that I’m a Hurts believer, but maybe a bum ankle and being forced to sit in the pocket are what he needs to develop as a passer. 

This reminds me of Adrian Beltre. He was very highly touted and talented, came I to the league at 19 but was raw. He was still good, but in 2004 he started the year with bone spurs in his left foot or front foot while batting. It forced him to keep his weight back and that changed everything.

334 avg, 48 hrs, 130 something rbis, he was a monster. Tons of game tying hrs and walk off hrs that year, one where he hit a hr to tie it in the 9th and than the walkoff a couple innings later

 

44 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

So because he rushed for 849 yards the year after he won a SB makes him a running QB that won the SB? Lol 

He ran for over 500 the year he won the Super Bowl, and many years other than that. 

The 849 leaves no wiggle room.  It's hard to find the stats for this - best rushing seasons for a QB - but I really doubt that more than 10 other QBs ran for over 849 yards in a year.  Only Vick and Jackson did over 1000.   No doubt he's a running QB if he's putting up 849 yards rushing.

The Seahawks lost the Super Bowl the year he ran for 849.  Because Wilson passed at the end of the game.
 

His best season rushing was the year after he won the Super Bowl, the year he lost the Super Bowl.
 

People really try so hard to place a QB who ran for 849 yards outside the running QB category,  because they really like to say that running QBs don't win Super Bowls.  Despite the fact that they're wrong.

1 hour ago, The Blackfish said:

 The bigger question is what determines a running QB?  IMO it matters how many times a QB runs the ball per season. 
  100 rushes per season?  Wilson has only done that twice, 90 plus per season and it’s five times. Vicks highest total through a 16 game season is 123, Hurts is at 122 through 12 games this season. There aren’t that many QB’s that have rushed 122 times in 12 games, it’s Lamar, Hurts, possibly Cam.   
 
Btw, stop comparing Russell Wilson to Hurts, he was a much better passer than Hurts as a rookie and still is.  Hurts comp right now is Cam Newton, if a comp has to be done. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

No,  that's all wrong.

Your argument is basically that no running QBs have won the Super Bowl,  because there has never been a running QB before?

No,  it's rushing yards.  I'd say 500 in a year.  You need to have some players in that category. 

The QBs with the most rushing yards in a season - those are running QBs.

Simple and easy.   Sorry that it breaks your story about no running QBs winning the Super Bowl.

The idea that a QB who runs for 849 yards in a season isn't a running QB is complete fantasy.

 

Found it.   Only 4 other QBs have run for more than Russell Wilsons 849 yards in a season.

Lamar Jackson, Michael Vick,  Bobby Douglass, Randall Cunningham.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-threat_quarterback

 

Running QB does not mean bad passer.   It just means runs for yards. 

And you can't just remove the QBs you like from the top runners list because you have a theory that running QBs can't be good throwers, therefore

You have cognitive dissonance and you can resolve this by removing the broken not fact about running QBs not being good passers.

Any argument that says that running QBs don't win Super Bowls is a lie at this point, and has been for at least since Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl. 

500 rushing yards in a season is a good measuring number,  as it puts most of the QBs on the other side of that number.  500 rushing yards is still pretty rare for a QB.  

5 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

the hope that whatever level of passing that Jalen Hurts brings is good enough for wins.

Because he brings a level of running that almost none in the NFL can bring.  And that running brings wins.  If you add together what Jalen Hurts brings with the running with the passing,   the level of passing that is required is lower for wins, because the level of running is so high.

Jalen Hurts is on the team.  Jalen Hurts has a cheap contract, and he's signed through 2023.

Other alternatives are more costly.  Jalen Hurts is doing better than most first round draft picks of the last 4 years.   So,  if the Eagles were to use a first round draft pick on a QB,  it's more likely than not that the new QB would be worse than Jalen Hurts.  And, it's a draft pick wasted that could've been used elsewhere.   A veteran would likely either be worse than Jalen Hurts, or extremely costly.   Someone somewhere mentioned Mariota.  That might be a good idea.  He's pretty cheap with the Raiders right now.  

Oh the irony. 

6 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Russell Wilson.  

Ran for 849 yards one year.

That's a running QB. 

Running QBs are QBs who have a lot of rushing yards. 

You can make a stronger version of your argument if you understand that running QB Russell Wilson did win a Super Bowl 8 years ago.  

I'm not worried about my argument. I haven't really taken a stance on the debate. I think most critics of Hurts just don't believe he'll be much of a passer at all --- like Tebow. That isn't my stance. I think it's something he'll continually improve. He's already better than Tebow and, IMO, improving as the season progresses. When those critics make claims about "running QBs" I believe they're pegging Hurts as "only a running QB." While running is his strongest trait at this time, I believe his passing game  is not as bad as some are making it seem. Hurts just happens to be in an offense that is designed around his strengths. The flip side of that is it is likely slowing his development as a passer somewhat. It certainly isn't teaching him pocket patience and designing plays to get him on the move limits what he can see and which targets are viable to throw to. 

As far as the claim "running QBs don't win titles." That is not my stance. IMO, saying a certain player or a certain type of player will never win a title in a team sport is ludicrous. I can go into depth with examples of players that shouldn't have titles for this reason or that, but rather than listing them all out, I'll just direct everybody to Kelce's post-Super Bowl speech. 

Don't let me stop you from working on your own argument, though.