2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

QBR is the #1 metric used to account for QB rushing.  Please find me a statistic that shows he is good.

You could just post his total yards, TDs and turnovers, and compare them to other qbs to see how good or bad he is.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

QBR is the #1 metric used to account for QB rushing.  Please find me a statistic that shows he is good.

😄

7 minutes ago, MF POON said:

😄

Then give me what stat you think should be the measure.  

On 12/18/2021 at 10:01 PM, Green_Guinness said:

I just don't get the Wentz hate.  Exactly what did he do to get some fans to hate him so much?  Yeah, he was awful last year, but you think he did that on purpose?  He should have adjusted his game and tried to play smarter than being a gunslinger, which he has admitted that's how he likes to play, sort of like Favre.  Him being stubborn isn't a reason to hate the guy.  He had mostly trash WRs the last 2 seasons, Pederson without Reich ran a predictable boring O, constant rotating OL, he most likely came back too soon from the ACL and should have taken more time to be as fully fit as possible then hurt his back because of it (BTW, dude started this year playing on TWO bad ankles, so anyone who says he is soft is biased AF), and took a dirty cheap shot to knock him out of a playoff game which is NOT his fault.  Sometimes I think 4for4 is on to something that Wentz being an alabaster ginger from the Midwest who likes to hunt and thumps a bible turns some people off.  Nothing wrong with putting food on your table yourself and his bible thumping (And I'm so not the type of person who is into the bible, but as long as you don't try to preach to me what works for you and what you do doesn't hurt others then we're cool) brought about Thy Kingdom Crumb that provided FREE food to people in need (Oh, and his charity softball games at CBP, anyone?).  Yeah, what a F'ing Ahole he is.  So is this the equation that some are following in the current social climate:  swag >>>>> charity? 

I think some guys are like women in that they feel jilted Wentz bolted for another team.  Funny, because most of us bish in here how F'd up the FO is and how Lowie is out of control ruining the team because they think they're the smartest guys in the NFL, yet you won't cut a player some slack for wanting to get away from that clusterF ish show.  I would have liked to seen Wentz in Siri's O and if he could have been closer to 2017 Wentz than 2020 Wentz, but also can't fault the guy for having insurmountable issues with Lowie.

Wentz could have been a better QB if he wasn't so stubborn.  At some point you have to make adjustments.  That was his Achilles Heal, his inability to adjust and adapt.  Doesn't warrant hatred of the man, FFS.  He needed a QBC like DeFilippo to stay on his ass and keep up with his mechanics and play the game a certain way.  Most QBs need that kind of support.  It's very rare to get a QB who can do it on his own and literally put the team on his back and carry them.  I can accept Wentz was more the guy who needed help than the guy to just take over himself and will the team to big Ws.  Guess others can't do that.

My issues with Hurts have been the same all season and those are things he's not good at that are more instinctive than coachable so he will only improve a little bit over what we see now, which is just not good enough.  Minshew is not the long term answer either, but he's better at those instinctive qualities than Hurts so we can better see what Siri's O could be with the right QB and what our young skills players could be with a QB that distributes the ball to them on time.  We currently have 2 career backup QBs on our roster.  That's Lowie's fault and nobody else's.

 

I never got the chance to have a strong opinion on Wentz one way or the other. This 1 person jury was still out on him. I didn't like the contract extension because I didn't think he showed enough to deserve it. I thought Howie was rolling the dice and that it could go either way. While I wouldn't put myself in the Wentz hater camp, I lost respect for him when he had the meltdown over Hurts. I found it selfish, unprofessional and bordering on childish.

32 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

I never got the chance to have a strong opinion on Wentz one way or the other. This 1 person jury was still out on him. I didn't like the contract extension because I didn't think he showed enough to deserve it. I thought Howie was rolling the dice and that it could go either way. While I wouldn't put myself in the Wentz hater camp, I lost respect for him when he had the meltdown over Hurts. I found it selfish, unprofessional and bordering on childish.

Wentz's fragile ego is what did it for me.  Granted part of that was the former coaching staff coddling the big baby by hiring coaches that would not give him the tough love he needed, but he was the one that fractured relationships in the locker room (articles coming out from unnamed sources, him needing to apologize for it) and then instead of taking the drafting of Hurts either in stride or at least using as motivation to play better, he just sucked.

Philly is a hard place to play. Just look at this thread alone - we are fans of the team with different opinions and it is one shot after another at each other for no real good reason. It was and is obvious that Wentz just could not deal with it because he is too fragile of a person to handle the harsh criticism that comes with playing QB in Philly.

People have unrealistic expectations for Hurts and this team. Ironically those expectations are coming from people who over the last three years said the Eagles have no talent. I guess they want to get back to watching the quarterback lose but have nice stats doing it. 🙄

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

People have unrealistic expectations for Hurts

Yeah, we want him to complete more than 46% of his passes more than 3 yards past the line of scrimmage.  How unrealistic of us.

Just to make the position of the Hurts Haters clear -

Mac Jones passes for an average of 226 yards per game.

Jalen Hurts passes for an average of 203 yards per game.

That's what they are losing their minds over. All of them have stated they are fine with Mac Jones being the qb. Heck, most of them are okay with Wentz and his 214 yards a game.

But they are clear that unless Hurts can throw for an extra 23 yards a game, he should not be the qb of the Eagles.

Of course, Hurts rushes for 58 yards a game, and Jones rushes for less than 6 yards a game. So Hurts actually has a much higher total output than Jones, but Hurts Haters aren't about that. What they are about is passing, and Hurts just ain't good enough.

But for everyone else, here is the reality.

300 yards per game is a top 5 qb. Hurts right now is at 261. Hurts Haters think there is no way he can get to that 300 numbers. Realists think, "hey, maybe adding a decent WR and having an additional year in the offense, Hurts can get there, or at least get close enough that, with the bulk of our draft capital going to add playmakers on the defense, it will be enough to make us competitive."

That's the argument in a nutshell. Forget all the other noise and ridiculous posts and hand waving to muddy the waters. The numbers are what the numbers are.

  

1 hour ago, pallidrone said:

Wentz's fragile ego is what did it for me.  Granted part of that was the former coaching staff coddling the big baby by hiring coaches that would not give him the tough love he needed, but he was the one that fractured relationships in the locker room (articles coming out from unnamed sources, him needing to apologize for it) and then instead of taking the drafting of Hurts either in stride or at least using as motivation to play better, he just sucked.

Philly is a hard place to play. Just look at this thread alone - we are fans of the team with different opinions and it is one shot after another at each other for no real good reason. It was and is obvious that Wentz just could not deal with it because he is too fragile of a person to handle the harsh criticism that comes with playing QB in Philly.

13 minutes ago, greend said:

Sure what would you like to know.

25 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Just to make the position of the Hurts Haters clear -

Mac Jones passes for an average of 226 yards per game.

Jalen Hurts passes for an average of 203 yards per game.

That's what they are losing their minds over. All of them have stated they are fine with Mac Jones being the qb. Heck, most of them are okay with Wentz and his 214 yards a game.

But they are clear that unless Hurts can throw for an extra 23 yards a game, he should not be the qb of the Eagles.

Of course, Hurts rushes for 58 yards a game, and Jones rushes for less than 6 yards a game. So Hurts actually has a much higher total output than Jones, but Hurts Haters aren't about that. What they are about is passing, and Hurts just ain't good enough.

But for everyone else, here is the reality.

300 yards per game is a top 5 qb. Hurts right now is at 261. Hurts Haters think there is no way he can get to that 300 numbers. Realists think, "hey, maybe adding a decent WR and having an additional year in the offense, Hurts can get there, or at least get close enough that, with the bulk of our draft capital going to add playmakers on the defense, it will be enough to make us competitive."

That's the argument in a nutshell. Forget all the other noise and ridiculous posts and hand waving to muddy the waters. The numbers are what the numbers are.

  

Would I like to be grooming Mac Jones who is ~10% more accurate and in his rookie year? Sure, I suppose. We would probably need to run the ball some to help take the pressure off him as he develops but I think we can handle that.

Here's the biggest issue. People that keep banging the drum for total yards are inadvertently saying that Hurts blows as a passer and they don't even realize it. 

The number one job is something he's terrible at. Hence, we try to make him throw less and the bit he does are to one side of the field. Those should be a red flags, but here we are.

19 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Here's the biggest issue. People that keep banging the drum for total yards are inadvertently saying that Hurts blows as a passer and they don't even realize it. 

The number one job is something he's terrible at. Hence, we try to make him throw less and the bit he does are to one side of the field. Those should be a red flags, but here we are.

The job of a qb is to generate yards and points, and limit turnovers. That's the job. Your understanding of the job is flawed.

21 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

The job of a qb is to generate yards and points, and limit turnovers. That's the job. Your understanding of the job is flawed.

I like how somehow the QB's role has changed to fit your narrative.

All I've seen all season from the Eagles with Hurts at the helm is terrible play and mostly garbage time heroics when the other team is protecting a lead and playing prevent defense. Except for the Minshew game. Albeit against a terrible opponent.

26 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

The job of a qb is to generate yards and points, and limit turnovers. That's the job. Your understanding of the job is flawed.

I'm sure that's why most teams in the league that need a QB moving forward will completely ignore passing and focus on how well the QB runs.

Oh, wait.

4 hours ago, Vileborg said:

Would I like to be grooming Mac Jones who is ~10% more accurate and in his rookie year? Sure, I suppose. We would probably need to run the ball some to help take the pressure off him as he develops but I think we can handle that.

The irony is that if not for a game with 60 MPH winds making it nearly impossible to pass, Jones sits at 242 yards per game with a much higher completion percentage.

19 minutes ago, Devaster said:

I like how somehow the QB's role has changed to fit your narrative.

It's not my narrative, it's the facts. I could show you numerous examples of how a qb with average or below average pass numbers used their running ability to propel their team to deep playoff runs.

You are an Eagles fan, right? Randall Cunningham did it his whole career. No one wanted him as the starter early in his career. Then he started winning games, went to the playoffs eight times, was named to three pro bowls and was an all pro.

Those who don't learn from history...

23 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

It's not my narrative, it's the facts. I could show you numerous examples of how a qb with average or below average pass numbers used their running ability to propel their team to deep playoff runs.

You are an Eagles fan, right? Randall Cunningham did it his whole career. No one wanted him as the starter early in his career. Then he started winning games, went to the playoffs eight times, was named to three pro bowls and was an all pro.

Those who don't learn from history...

Those who don't learn from history?  History says not to build your offense around a QB that can't pass.  So I really don't understand that comment.

Randall was an all-pro and enjoyed playoff runs when he was PASSING as part of a high flying offense with a pair of HOF WRs.  The type of dynamic Randall brought to the passing game also should not even be mentioned in a Hurts thread, since Hurts couldn't throw the ball downfield with a running start the way Randall could from his knees.

I would like to see the numerous examples of below average passing QB's running their way to deep playoff success...

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Those who don't learn from history?  History says not to build your offense around a QB that can't pass.  So I really don't understand that comment.

Randall was an all-pro and enjoyed playoff runs when he was PASSING as part of a high flying offense with a pair of HOF WRs.  The type of dynamic Randall brought to the passing game also should not even be mentioned in a Hurts thread, since Hurts couldn't throw the ball downfield with a running start the way Randall could from his knees.

I would like to see the numerous examples of below average passing QB's running their way to deep playoff success...

It's funny, because in 1987, when he was mediocre and the team was terrible, a lot of people wanted him gone. He was a second round qb who couldn't throw well enough to win at the NFL level and whose best trait was his ability to run around. And I am sure you would have been the person at the front of the mob screaming your head off about it. Like you are now.

Well, history will be the judge. 

2 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

It's funny, because in 1987, when he was mediocre and the team was terrible, a lot of people wanted him gone. He was a second round qb who couldn't throw well enough to win at the NFL level and whose best trait was his ability to run around. And I am sure you would have been the person at the front of the mob screaming your head off about it. Like you are now.

Well, history will be the judge. 

Randall played in a much different era of football where defense could be played and still has just a hair under 30,000 passing yards and over 200 passing TDs.

As an Eagle, he averaged just over 400 rushing yards a season whereas Hurts in his "one season" is just under 1000.

Stop disrespecting Randall.

3 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Stop disrespecting Randall.

I am not disrespecting Randall, I am disrespecting you.

5 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Randall played in a much different era of football where defense could be played and still has just a hair under 30,000 passing yards and over 200 passing TDs.

As an Eagle, he averaged just over 400 rushing yards a season whereas Hurts in his "one season" is just under 1000.

Stop disrespecting Randall.

Randall wasn't allowed to show his passing prowess under Buddy Ryan. That was a widely known fact. He finally got a chance to show his passing prowess with the Vikings.

2 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I am not disrespecting Randall, I am disrespecting you.

You're disrespecting me by talking out of your ass?

Lmao, whatever you say champ.

2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

You're disrespecting me by talking out of your ass?

Lmao, whatever you say champ.

You would have been the guy in 1985 screaming about the Eagles drafting Cunningham. Like you are screaming about Hurts now.

Times change, people don't.

7 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

You would have been the guy in 1985 screaming about the Eagles drafting Cunningham. Like you are screaming about Hurts now.

Times change, people don't.

Now now, don't assume things.