3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Eagles would be foolish to extend Hurts anytime soon. He’s gotta earn that! Why are people even discussing that right now? Personally I think the Eagles are going in a different direction with this quarterback thing. I feel like they believe it’s better to have comparable quarterbacks not necessarily in play styles, but in contracts which will allow them to create better rosters. I think they’re realizing that having a guy does nothing for the team if that guy isn’t next level elite. Also if that guy gets hurt/sick and so forth the season is basically over. I feel like they’re going to move more into a direction better roster talent over banking on one quarterback. 

 

2 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

The NFL as a whole has become weird for QB extensions. Any QB who gets extended by the team that drafted them gets in excess of $30m/year. That outrageous cost impacts the rest of the roster buy works when you have an elite or very good QBs such as Mahomes but not if it’s a middle of the road / slightly above average QB like Cousins. 

Until now, not many team have really been comfortable letting these middle of the road QBs walk but I think that will change around the NFL as more teams realise the bind these massive QB contracts teams under with the alternative of trying to hit on a guy on a rookie contract or a slightly below average but drastically cheaper QB a better alternative. Browns and Mayfield will be interesting to watch this year - they would be silly to commit to him with a massive contest so what sort of contract does he get? Wonder if that’s the trigger for the price point starting to drop on these sort of QBs.

I personally think now that Hurts will be the starter next year, at least for the start of the year. But yeah it's crazy to consider an extension. Although a lot of the board have made their mind up, I think next year will give us a better idea about Hurts. If he continues to develop he could be the guy.

But even if the Eagles think he is, they should be in no rush to extend him. There is a real opportunity to build a strong roster. As others have said, you take Brady, the GOAT, out of the equation and QB isn't as huge factor as some think. Wilson, Rodgers, Brees and Good Peyton Manning have won one. So have Flacco, Foles, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, the Corpse of Peyton Manning. Eli has won two.

That's why you don't give up 3 first rounders and huge amounts of cap space to get Wilson, Rodgers or Watson. Wilson isn't leaving Seattle anyways.  

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

2022 Cousins is a 45mil dead cap hit. Is that dude really worth a quarter of next seasons cap? Dude has a career losing record, and took over a team that lost in the NFC Championship in 2017, and has basically done little to nothing with them. With that salary a team could probably bring in 4 quality players. Is Cousins worth more than that? I don’t think so.

F No! Give me Hurts at whatever penny pinching contract we have him on over Cousins for that outrageous amount of money.

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

2022 Cousins is a 45mil dead cap hit. Is that dude really worth a quarter of next seasons cap? Dude has a career losing record, and took over a team that lost in the NFC Championship in 2017, and has basically done little to nothing with them. With that salary a team could probably bring in 4 quality players. Is Cousins worth more than that? I don’t think so. 

That’s exactly my point

2 hours ago, proveagle said:

Given what I see teammates and coaches talk about his work-ethic and drive I expect him to focus the off season on:

1. Body mechanics to improve as a consistently accurate thrower of the football.

2. Processing progressions and making faster decisions.

Both of these are related because if you don't have confidence in #1 you hesitate and windows are lost.  IMO that is a good part of why he doesn't pull the trigger.

I give him this off season to focus on those areas and I expect a significant leap in performance for next season.  If that is NOT what happens then I am starting to think that what we are seeing close to his ceiling with significant variance play to play and game to game.

Yep, these are the areas where we all want to see improvement, and given the lack of a elite arm talent it’s even more important for Hurts than some others kids. I can’t say I have seen ideal improvement in these areas from Yr 1 to Yr 2, or over the course of this year.

The optimistic side of me sees things exactly the way you do. The dude has bunch of intangibles to love, is a hard worker, wants to succeed and will really take to the cocking and try everything to get better. He is young, been through multiple offensive systems etc so with some stability will continue to improve and make a leap next year. 

The pessimistic side of me says these issues aren’t exactly new for Hurts. They were evident from day 1 at Alabama and why he eventually lost his job to Tua. He’s had some of the best offensive minds in college coach him (Daboll, Sarkisian, Riley) and we are still talking about the same thing. It’s not like this is some raw kid with the tools from some random programme ala Josh Allen or Trey Lance.

I think we get to the end of the year and still don’t have a clear answer on Hurts one way or the other. So yeah, this off-season and next year will be key.  

20 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Is he?

2nd year trubisky 24/12 3200 66% 

2nd year hurts 16/9 2900 58.6% 

Definitely agree you can win with. I'm also looking at the schedule and realize quite a few qbs could of been on this team and beat who we've faced the last few weeks. I am all for letting hurts start next year btw. I'm not a huge fan of this draft class. If he cleans it up, sign him long term and let's go. Same feeling bears fans had a few years ago. 

 

 

20 hours ago, BirdsFanBill said:

How about Jalen Hurts is Jalen Hurts. There's some weird obsession with trying to figure out what QB in nfl history every young QB is going to be.

I'd like to just see what he's going to be. 

 

13 hours ago, proveagle said:

Given what I see teammates and coaches talk about his work-ethic and drive I expect him to focus the off season on:

1. Body mechanics to improve as a consistently accurate thrower of the football.

2. Processing progressions and making faster decisions.

Both of these are related because if you don't have confidence in #1 you hesitate and windows are lost.  IMO that is a good part of why he doesn't pull the trigger.

I give him this off season to focus on those areas and I expect a significant leap in performance for next season.  If that is NOT what happens then I am starting to think that what we are seeing close to his ceiling with significant variance play to play and game to game.  If he focuses on other areas I will be disappointed and feel like he is unable to see where his issues are and appropriately focus on addressing them.

Edit:  Wanted to add this. Disclaimer: I still hate the Cowboys.  Dak Prescott was not a great consistently accurate QB coming out of College.  At some point a few years ago he really started working on his body mechanics and hip usage / throwing motion.  It is very evident in his improvement.  You can still see him running some of the same drills when he is doing his on field warm-ups pregame. (there is a hip snapping drill that looks ridiculous but it is how you continue to build that muscle memory).

 

12 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

F No! Give me Hurts at whatever penny pinching contract we have him on over Cousins for that outrageous amount of money.

Firstly Hurts completion percentage for this year is actually 61%. Now that's not great for a 2021 passer, but it's not awful and is a big increase on the 52% of his first year. If Hurts can raise it again next year by around 3/4% then that would be absolutely fine giving his running ability.

These are the reasons I want Hurts to start next year:

1) The Eagles are 9th in points scored. (By comparison, some people are suggesting Cousins as an option. the Vikings are below us in points scored, even though Cousins puts up nice numbers and has Jefferson, Cook and Thielen.)

2) Whilst the running game is a big part of that, the threat of Hurts running and his ability (First Giants game apart) to move the ball with his arm and legs when needed have really contributed to the Eagles O success.

3) He has improved from last year in respect of protecting the football and accuracy. 

4) He does seem to have the leadership and intangibles and responds well to adversity.

5) There are no other better options right now that wouldn't cripple the team moving forwards. The draft is poor for QBs. The potential QBs for trade probably wouldn't come, but even if they would we would be giving up 3 firsts and significant cap room. Keep Hurts on his next to nothing salary.

Now ProvEagle has set out some important areas for improvement. There are still lots of questions about Hurts. Can he do it when the run game is shut down. Is his deep ball good enough. Can he learn to make better decisions and look off safeties to avoid them reading his throws.

Maybe we have now seen peak Hurts and DCs will adapt and he will either stop his progress or move backwards. 

But it makes all the sense in the world to build the talent in the team and find out next year. 

23 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Steve McNair, in his first full season (three years into his career), had a completion rate of 52 percent, threw for 2,665 yards, with 14 TDs, 13 INTs, a 70.4 QB rating, 674 rushing yards with 8 TDs. Two years later his team was in the Super Bowl.

If we are going to compare Hurts to Tebow, we also have to compare him to McNair.

No one knows what Hurts is going to be. He may be Tebow or McNair.

The difference is, there are those of us who want him to be McNair, and those of us who want him to be Tebow. Personally, I think the ones who want him to be Tebow, and who are actively rooting for it, are crap human beings. I don't get why they would actively root against the interests of their team, to the point where, on Sunday, when Hurts was playing poorly, one of them specifically called me out to gloat about his performance. Luckily Hurts turned it around, but I see that poster took no joy in that, because here he is again, crapping all over Hurts. And for what? So he can appear to be smarter than those of us who want Hurts to succeed? Not realizing that we want Hurts to succeed not because we think he is anything special, but because it would be a good outcome for our team.

But I guess it is true what they say, some people just want to see the world burn.

So good luck on Sunday. Maybe Hurts will play bad enough for you to really let me have it. And then you can smugly sit by while this team misses the playoffs and desperately tries to sort out its qb situation in the offseason, along with 20 other crap teams, going to bed at night with the comfort of knowing that you knew Hurts was Tebow and not McNair, and that if only the team, and posters like myself, had listened to you, they would have been better off, because you are so much smarter.

Well, I don't know if Hurts is McNair or Tebow. I don't pretend to have that much football knowledge. And I think anyone who does is just throwing darts, and digging themselves into a position built on a mountain of ignorance. So win or lose Sunday, I will be fine. So do me a favor, and don't @ me again if Hurts plays bad. I don't need any more crap human beings in my life.

Don't disrespect McNair like that ya humper

McNair never threw for 4,000 yards.  He failed to reach 3,000 yards multiple times.  He achieved a QB rating of better than 91 once in his career.  He broke 20 TD passes thee times in a 13 year career.

Those stats, if compared to starting QBs today, would make him the worst starting passer in the NFL.

That's not to say that McNair sucked...just that he played in a different generation.  It was the functional dead ball era.  So don't compare the first 3 years of McNair's career to Hurts.  

And no...even for his era, it's not THAT great.  He made it to one SB and was outplayed by a better passer.  So no...I DONT HOPE that Hurts is McNair, because that's not good enough.  I prefer he be Tebow so the Eagles can move on with it and find someone that can win us a Super Bowl.

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

1) The Eagles are 9th in points scored. (By comparison, some people are suggesting Cousins as an option. the Vikings are below us in points scored, even though Cousins puts up nice numbers and has Jefferson, Cook and Thielen.)

Actually, in offensive points per game, the Eagles rank 14th, behind the Vikings, 49ers, Patriots.

2) Whilst the running game is a big part of that, the threat of Hurts running and his ability (First Giants game apart) to move the ball with his arm and legs when needed have really contributed to the Eagles O success.

The running game is a big part of it because we have a dominant offensive line, it does not need Hurts to work. Against the Jets, we ran for 40 more yards than they allow per game, and it was the running backs second highest yardage total of the year.

See bolded

34 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

McNair never threw for 4,000 yards.  He failed to reach 3,000 yards multiple times.  He achieved a QB rating of better than 91 once in his career.  He broke 20 TD passes thee times in a 13 year career.

Those stats, if compared to starting QBs today, would make him the worst starting passer in the NFL.

That's not to say that McNair sucked...just that he played in a different generation.  It was the functional dead ball era.  So don't compare the first 3 years of McNair's career to Hurts.  

And no...even for his era, it's not THAT great.  He made it to one SB and was outplayed by a better passer.  So no...I DONT HOPE that Hurts is McNair, because that's not good enough.  I prefer he be Tebow so the Eagles can move on with it and find someone that can win us a Super Bowl.

When will people learn that football is a team sport? Saying, "McNair didn't win a Super Bowl so we need a better QB than him," is stupid. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Why? Because he wasn't on the best team. Jim Kelly never won a Super Bowl. In fact, Kelly lost to Hostetler ( a backup forced to play). 

I'm not saying you want your QB to be a dud, but all the QB has to do is execute the game plan and help his TEAM win a game. See Jim McMahon, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, etc...

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

See bolded

Okay fair enough on points per game, but on that you have to remember a rushing dominant team will have slower drives and take more time off the clock, so that’s still pretty good (look at the other top running attacks. Only the Colts score well).

You need to give it up on Minshew. He was playing literally the worst D in the league who had prepared for a different QB. If that was Hurts you would have dismissed that performance for that reason.

5 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Okay fair enough on points per game, but on that you have to remember a rushing dominant team will have slower drives and take more time off the clock, so that’s still pretty good (look at the other top running attacks. Only the Colts score well).

You need to give it up on Minshew. He was playing literally the worst D in the league who had prepared for a different QB. If that was Hurts you would have dismissed that performance for that reason.

Yes, they are the worst D in the league, but we ran for 40 more yards than they give up per game.  We did it without Hurts, proving the running game is the product of our dominant offensive line, and not Hurts.

42 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

When will people learn that football is a team sport? Saying, "McNair didn't win a Super Bowl so we need a better QB than him," is stupid. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Why? Because he wasn't on the best team. Jim Kelly never won a Super Bowl. In fact, Kelly lost to Hostetler ( a backup forced to play). 

I'm not saying you want your QB to be a dud, but all the QB has to do is execute the game plan and help his TEAM win a game. See Jim McMahon, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, etc...

True, but Flacco and Foles did a lot more than execute the game plan in their respective Super Bowls.  

52 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

When will people learn that football is a team sport? Saying, "McNair didn't win a Super Bowl so we need a better QB than him," is stupid. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Why? Because he wasn't on the best team. Jim Kelly never won a Super Bowl. In fact, Kelly lost to Hostetler ( a backup forced to play). 

I'm not saying you want your QB to be a dud, but all the QB has to do is execute the game plan and help his TEAM win a game. See Jim McMahon, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, etc...

So it's a team sport when McNair can't win a Super Bowl (and was badly outplayed by the opposing QB), but it's a credit to Hurts and evidence that he's our guy simply because our record went from 4-11-1 to 8-7 despite one of the least productive passing offenses in the entire NFL.

Got it.

53 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yes, they are the worst D in the league, but we ran for 40 more yards than they give up per game.  We did it without Hurts, proving the running game is the product of our dominant offensive line, and not Hurts.

Yes - I never said it wasn’t. The O-Line is absolutely the main reason. But Hurts helps when he’s there as teams have to account for him as well.

 But again the Jets have the worst D in the league, so it’s no surprise the Eagles did what they wanted with that O-Line. Minshew played well though.

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

When will people learn that football is a team sport? Saying, "McNair didn't win a Super Bowl so we need a better QB than him," is stupid. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Why? Because he wasn't on the best team. Jim Kelly never won a Super Bowl. In fact, Kelly lost to Hostetler ( a backup forced to play). 

I'm not saying you want your QB to be a dud, but all the QB has to do is execute the game plan and help his TEAM win a game. See Jim McMahon, Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, etc...

 

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

So it's a team sport when McNair can't win a Super Bowl (and was badly outplayed by the opposing QB), but it's a credit to Hurts and evidence that he's our guy simply because our record went from 4-11-1 to 8-7 despite one of the least productive passing offenses in the entire NFL.

Got it.

He’s not saying Hurts is the guy. I’m pretty sure there are only 2-3 on the board who are saying that right now. 
 

But over the past few games, the Eagles team have been winning with Hurts at QB. It just makes sense to see if he can continue to progress next year on his rookie contract while we build the team. If he doesn’t, it will be easy enough for us to move on.

46 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

He’s not saying Hurts is the guy. I’m pretty sure there are only 2-3 on the board who are saying that right now. 
 

But over the past few games, the Eagles team have been winning with Hurts at QB. It just makes sense to see if he can continue to progress next year on his rookie contract while we build the team. If he doesn’t, it will be easy enough for us to move on.

Eagles have been winning because they are running the ball. We could probably have anyone else back there competent enough to read a defense and make a throw

16 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Eagles have been winning because they are running the ball. We could probably have anyone else back there competent enough to read a defense and make a throw

Maybe. Maybe not. What is your plan? Bench him for Minshew? The guy who the Jags couldn't get more than a 6th rounder for after 20 plus starts? Or do you want to trade three firsts for Deshaun Watson?

8 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Maybe. Maybe not. What is your plan? Bench him for Minshew? The guy who the Jags couldn't get more than a 6th rounder for after 20 plus starts? Or do you want to trade three firsts for Deshaun Watson?

Have him compete with Hurts in the offseason. I'd bring Foles back and have him compete for the starting position if it's possible

Also Bridgewater seems like a good stopgap

I don't think Hurts should just be given the starting position

5 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

 

 

1) The Eagles are 9th in points scored. (By comparison, some people are suggesting Cousins as an option. the Vikings are below us in points scored, even though Cousins puts up nice numbers and has Jefferson, Cook and Thielen.)

Is that really true? Who is championing for us to go with Cousins?

7 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Have him compete with Hurts in the offseason. I'd bring Foles back and have him compete for the starting position if it's possible

Also Bridgewater seems like a good stopgap

I don't think Hurts should just be given the starting position

Foles won't come back. He turned the Eagles down in the summer. Maybe he wants to protect his legacy here, or maybe he doesn't want to go back to a team that traded him away twice for two Quarterbacks that have zero playoff wins between them in 13 years.

Bridgewater is a decent QB, but he will cost a bit. Are we Bridgewater away from having a contending team next year? If not, just roll with Hurts and you have Minshew if Hurts doesn't work out. Then get a new QB in 2023 when you've had the cap and picks to build a team capable of making a deep playoff run.

6 minutes ago, Devaster said:

Is that really true? Who is championing for us to go with Cousins?

There have been a few posts in this thread and I think another where people have stated they would take Cousins over Hurts. I'm not sure if anybody is actually championing it though fortunately!

4 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Foles won't come back. He turned the Eagles down in the summer. Maybe he wants to protect his legacy here, or maybe he doesn't want to go back to a team that traded him away twice for two Quarterbacks that have zero playoff wins between them in 13 years.

Bridgewater is a decent QB, but he will cost a bit. Are we Bridgewater away from having a contending team next year? If not, just roll with Hurts and you have Minshew if Hurts doesn't work out. Then get a new QB in 2023 when you've had the cap and picks to build a team capable of making a deep playoff run.

Doug was still the HC. He may feel like it'd be a fresh start with a new coaching staff

We aren't one player away from contending but we need a better QB than Hurts. Preferably one that can read a defense and make the throws so our star WR can get the stats he's supposed to

12 minutes ago, Devaster said:

Is that really true? Who is championing for us to go with Cousins?

Championing is a strong word. People were throwing his name as a good bridge QB until we find the future

What's somewhat amazing to me is that the Hurts Haters and the Hurts Humpers essentially have the same position.

Both sides think that he needs to improve as a passer to be considered a qb1.

Both sides don't see any viable alternatives in the draft or free agency.

Both sides seem fine to give him another year to show what he can do.

The only disagreement seems to be whether or not he has the capacity to get better. And the Hurts Haters seem to be slowly coming to the realization that giving him another year to do so is the only viable path forward the team has, especially since our deteriorating draft capital means that any of the qbs who vastly improve their status at the senior bowl are going to be long gone by the time we pick.

So is there anything left to discuss?

17 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Doug was still the HC. He may feel like it'd be a fresh start with a new coaching staff

We aren't one player away from contending but we need a better QB than Hurts. Preferably one that can read a defense and make the throws so our star WR can get the stats he's supposed to

Nah - Howie/Lurie are still here. I don’t reckon it was about Doug.

Look you are sure Hurts can’t be the guy going forwards. I’m not sure. If the Eagles agree with you, then they may bring someone else in. If they are still evaluating, then it doesn’t make sense for now.